Can anyone explain Ann Rynd's philosophy to me?

[Windy]

My wacky libertarian to the extreme,second amendment militia member brother in law keeps trying to get me to read her books... even gave me a bag of books on disc to try and entice me..
If he's that into her, it concerns me that something isn't quite right with her thinking... I've heard of her prior to his interest, but really don't know what she stands for or espouses....

Any insight?

[CTLawGuy]

1. I hear that reading her makes you

an asshole for a week afterwards.

[Hugin]

2. All I know is...

Anyone who reads them is a complete and total Azz for
two months afterwards.

[WoodrowFan]

3. greed is good

seriously. in a nutshell it's "I got mine because I'm better than you and you can go f*** yourself."

[Windy]

6. Well that explains a lot

That is his mantra... sad.

[WoodrowFan]

9. it IS sad

basically take the golden rule and the Sermon on the Mount and flip them 180 degrees.

[Ladyhawk]

38. It's my brother's mantra, too: greed is good, greed is good.

No thank you. I'll pass.

He tried to get me to read Ayn Rand's books, but I so disliked his "morality" I never fell for it. I'm just as glad.

[skypilot]

4. "Nothing succeeds like success"

Fuck everything and everyone else.

I think that's it in a nutshell.

On edit: Oh, and, if you're Jewish, don't be.

[JanMichael]

5. From "Dirty Dancing" in one sentence:

"Some people just don't matter."

[blm]

7. Be selfish and greedy. You are the only one who should matter.

Selfish and greedy people use Ayn Rand to excuse their lack of compassion and character.

[Hugin]

8. Like all pure theories...

The libertarian ideology makes sense on paper...

Not in the real world.

[JNelson6563]

10. I got mine, gimme yours

close to Rethug philosophy.

Julie

[Maple]

Just read one

'Anthem' is very short. 123 pages in paperback. It'll sum it all up for you.

You should be familiar with her work at least, as many people follow her philosophy, and you'll have to deal with it a lot.

So it would be good to know what it's all about.

You can't counteract something, or fight it, if you don't know what it is.

[Justitia]

11. It's called "objectivism" and it's bullshit.

Basically it is every man for himself, pure capitalism (which exists nowhere in the world), greed and selfishness are the highest "virtues". Links to modern day libertarianism, which explains your relative's infatuation with it.

Honestly, it's tripe and no one with any education past high school seriously considers it as a political study.

And the writing absolutely sucks.

[Ravenseye]

30. In Philosophy Class in College...

...we covered various philosophies including that of Ayn Rand. We were given a number of situational examples and how each philosophy would react in that situation.

One of the situations was that there was a person drowning in a river. The current was strong and dangerous. Even trying to help the person drowning would be a danger.

The Ayn Rand philosophy follower would let the person drown, as any risk to oneself isn't worth it to help another person. The epitome of selfishness.

[mistertrickster]

12. When I was young and impressionable, I went in for her crap.

Basically "selfishness is good because it motivates the thinkers and the doers to think and do."

She was Russian and it was a simple-minded reaction to Soviet-style communism.

She is neither a good thinker nor a good writer. Society has no place in her thought--it's all me, me, me.

[tanyev]

13. If you're rich and successful,

it's because you work hard and are a good person. If you are not rich and successful, it's because you are lazy, unethical, and/or immoral.

[NYC]

25. She also assumes a level playing field.

Everyone has the same opportunity according to Rand (the woman named after a currency).

[GodlessBiker]

14. Where communism might be thought of as

taking the community to the extreme, Rynd's philosophy is often thought of taking the individual to the extreme, all else be damned.

[liveoaktx]

15. Who is John Galt? Those who are out to help society and

aren't strictly out for themselves and their own greatness are mediocre and ruining society. The great ones, ie, selfish, talented and greedy, should leave the others to die as the results of a shared society create its armageddon.

[Justitia]

33. Ack!! That phrase!! It's melting my brain! Why, oh why?

"Who is John Galt?" :nuke:

Quick, give me the antidote!

[barb162]

16. straight capitalism is the best form of economy to her as she came

from Russia around the time communism was coming in.She is very anti-welfare state

[madrchsod]

17. can anyone explain -philosophy-to me?

never understood a word in philosophy class or maybe it was the drugs i was on that confused the issues.....

[immoderate]

20. You need better drugs.

--IMM

[skids]

21. LOL. Right, if they were good drugs, you'd have aced the class. n/t

[porphyrian]

31. Philosophy:

Philosophy is an elaborate excuse for spending so much time doing nothing more than thinking about and discussing life, the universe and everything, often while wasted, with nothing more to show for it than a few essays or books detailing what you can remember.

The "objectivism" this thread is talking about, that Ayn Rand came up with, is summed up by Ms. Rand in this quote: "My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute." This can be translated as what most people here have said, though they are obviously against this idea.

[raggedcompany]

18. In five words: It's the obverse of Marx

in more than five words:

She posits self interest as humanity's saving grace, claims that the pure, uncompromised pursuit of what is good for the individual will benefit everyone, etc.

Or something along those lines. It's been awhile since I read Rand. Atlas Shrugged is worth reading, but needed a real editor: skip the very long monologue toward the end. But really, it's important work. I too have met some people who's adherence and exuberance for her "teachings" is creepy, but the same can be said for some wild eyed socialists.

For what it's worth, she has several books, but they repeat essentially the same dogma. Just read Atlas Shrugged, or if the story line in that one bores you to tears, try the one about the architect. Fountainhead or something like that. As mentioned above, Anthem will probably suffice, too.

final note: I did enjoy the plot line and writing in Atlas Shrugged, excepting of course the tedious monologue at the end. Tastes differ.

[Hugin]

19. It is the source of the concept..."Power is a virtue."

or "Power is a right of the divine."

Very dangerous and untrue thoughts which have
caused much misery through the ages.

I'd continue to avoid her books... Simply say it's
fiction and you live in a non-fiction world.

[kevinmc]

22. Send me $1000.00....

And I will tell you.

[Skidmore]

23. "I got mine; don't expect me to help you get yours." nt

[leftofthedial]

24. my property is more important than your life

it is more important than anything else, in fact.

[Batgirl]

26. book condensation explains it all

I also think this essay, a libertarian's critique of AR's philosophy, has some fascinating insights:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace27.html

[Hugin]

29. Great comic!

LOL! Thanks for posting Batgirl.

[bleedingheart]

27. Her book "The Virtue of Selfishness" should give you a hint

[Tansy_Gold]

28. Trying to move from a perfect world to an imperfect one

Rand's philosophy worked perfectly in the perfect world she created on paper for her "masterwork," Atlas Shrugged :

A world in which there is an unlimited and virtually free source of power (converting static electricity to usable DC current).

A world in which there is no disease (no one in the novel ever gets sick).

A world in which there are no children (Dagny Taggart, the "heroine" of the novel, has sex with several men but never gets pregnant and none of the other major characters has children either)

A world in which there are no natural disasters.

Hers is a world in which everything bad that happens is the fault of bad people, and therefore if people would just be "good" -- by her definition, looking out for themselves in a "rationally" selfish way -- there would be no need for any kind of social welfare.

She did not believe in greed, although on the surface it looks that way and in many cases her followers believed that she advocated it. She did not, however, believe in social notions of "equality," not even among the genders. She stated often that no woman should ever be president of the US because a woman "needs" a man stronger than herself to look up to.

She lived a very bizarre life in which she tried to bring the false reality of her fiction into her real life and for the most part it didn't work very well. She made a lot of people very unhappy.

Of course, Alan Greenspan was one of her personal devotees. . . . .

[NV Whino]

34. Alan Greenspan was one of her inner circle

Sorry for the repeat, Tansy, but I feel that needs to be in the headline so no one misses it.

There's an excellent biography of Ayn Rand by Barbara Branden (yes Nathanial's former wife).
"The Passion of Ayn Rand"

Published in 1986 by Doubleday. Paperback. You can probably find it in a used book store. Has a good selection of photos.

[Tansy_Gold]

40. Nathaniel Branden's bio has pix of Greenspan at Rand's NYC

home. I don't think Greenspan has ever attempted to deny any of this, but you're right, it needs to be repeated.

I believe Greenspan joined Rand, her husband Frank O'Connor, and the Brandens, among others, for regular get-togethers.

A couple of years ago I happened to catch a tv docu-bio-pic on Rand, the one produced by her "official" archivist (? -- I can't remember his name, Leonard something???) and narrated by Sharon Gless. There was no mention of Nathaniel Branden; he had been disappeared.

Rand was not the greatest writer in the world, but she was a very good story-teller and novelist. Her books had superb internal consistency. But like most "speculative" fiction -- SF/F and "paranormal" romances -- they relied on a basic foundation in unreality. If you remove that keystone, the whole arch collapses. In the real world, of course, neither the keystone nor the arch can exist. I think Rand had difficulty accepting that.

[BeTheChange]

44. The key is story teller-

She wasnt always writing a philosophy book. Most of the time, she was writing novels. I think alot of people read the fiction first and forget that the books about Objectivism are seperate.

You either love her or hate her.

[Az]

32. It is a notion that jumped to its conclusions too early

Rand's philosophy attempted to reduce all consideration down to pure reason. In truth this may be possible, but you have to base it on all the facts in play and at the time we simply did not know enough about biology, our social natures, and a miriad of other factors.

The upshot of her conjectures created a sort of Social Darwinism. It theorised that good relations could be made by using greed and self interest as a guide. Nuture relations that were valuable to you.

The critical flaw in her thinking came from her rejection of the notion of altruism. She saw this as a weakness. Advocated by religious beliefs and mandated at the threat of eternal punishment if it was not adhered to. There is a virulent hatred of altruistic behaviour within the Randian universe. Even when explained rationally they tend to react to it strongly.

The problem Rand ran into was the fact that we are not simply a self serving species. We are specifically a social species. That is our nature not only looks out for our own well being but also for our fellow people. Thus the system we find ourselves within is far more dynamic that Rand presumed.

Our sense of right and wrong come not just from our own needs but also from our societies needs. There is a constant struggle within our minds to determine the balance between self and society. And within Rand's view this carefully balanced system is up ended and all social concerns left to the side.

The condition of our fellow humans does not figure into the Randian philosophy. As long as our well being is insured the plight of others does not matter.

Rand was on the right path in some ways. But her sense of self and ego got in the way. There is a part of us that wants to be with others. It considers it's connection to others to be a part of our self. Thus our community and our society become an extension of our self.

This is why you will see acts of altruism every day. People go out of their way to help one another. Sometimes in trivial ways. Sometimes in life endangering ways. Studies show we naturally have altruistic tendencies. Rand believed these tendencies to be implanted by religious dogma and never realised that they were simply a natural part of our being that some religious dogmas merely borrowed and amplified.

[Tactical Progressive]

35. Greenspan is a Rand acolyte

Studied under her.

Just so you know where he comes from.

[maveric]

36. Here's her Bio.

http://www.atlassociety.com/rand.asp

[BeTheChange]

37. I like Ayn..

I think its always been easy to look at Ayn's work with a socialist eye and say, it was all about the greed, silly. I guess that just wasnt what I got out of the words she wrote. Her essay contest helped me pay for part of my collegiate experience, so perhaps Im a bit biased.

To me Ayn Rand said it was okay to be the best. It's okay not to settle for middle management. I hate the touchy feeliness of college classrooms now a days. What happened to good old competition? What happened to taking pride in your passion, your life, your business acumen.. your chocolate chip cookie recipe?

Im a democrat who does believe that in an ideal world, were we are all constantly striving for betterment there is no need for welfare. No Donald Trumps. No distribution of wealth that so sharply defines the roles of the haves and havenots.

Ayn can get a little verbose and the premise of Atlas Shrugged is gradiose, no doubt. However, I still think she helped me become the strong and independant woman I am today.

Of course, your milage my vary.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

45. "touchy feeliness"?

[Squeech]

39. Enlightened self-interest

Yes, she was into selfishness-- the word she used was "egoism."

Contrary to what several people have said or implied above, however, she was rigorously against the pursuit of power. Every human being is supposed to make his or her own decisions to maximize his or her own well-being and happiness. The exercise of power, in her lights, is antithetical to this, because what power is ultimately about is making somebody else act in a way he normally wouldn't, i.e. a way that he would rationally perceive to *not* be in his best interest.

I think the appeal of Rand (and I think she has some) is that she has identified a particularly pernicious form of corruption, which I think Commander Bunnypants exemplifies down to his simian toenails: he was a terrible student, he doesn't read or respect knowledge or science, he got where he is by family connections, he wraps himself in the flag and the Bible, he uses vague and amotional language-- all major sins in Rand's view.

But yeah, Rand's prejudice that all collective action is inherently evil undermines her good points.

Hope this helps.

[Tansy_Gold]

41. Excellent analysis, Squeech

:thumbsup:

At the core, Rand's philosophy was AGAINST greed, because it violated the "nor ask any man to live for the sake of mine." In other words, you didn't steal the fruit of someone else's labor to make your life easier.

But that part of it gets lost in the translation.

[BeTheChange]

42. Look at her background though..

She had just come out of Russia, if you take it as less of an attack to collectivism and more of a personal dialect, then I dont think it does undermine her good points.

[Windy]

43. Thank you everyone!

[TOOLZ]

46. I recently wrote a comparison of Ayn Rand & Gannon

<http://toolz.blogs.com/toolz_of_the_new_school/2005/02/who_is_jeff_gan.html>

snip

Who is John Galt?

That famous rhetorical question is the opening sentence and larger mystery of Ayn Rand’s literary masterpiece "Atlas Shrugged," meaning, "Who knows?" Similar to how her conservative fundamentals emerge throughout the novel, such as laissez-faire economics (shared by her contemporary Alan Greenspan) as well as almost Nietzschian reliance on the hope of Supermen Industrialists to save our over-governed plutocracy, Jeff Gannon’s rightwing partisanship emerged in a Jan. 26 press conference that initiated his unraveling:

“How are you going to work -- you've said you are going to reach out to these people -- how are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?”

Sigh. Well, Jeff’s writing skills are limited by his education, which consisted of a weekend course at the Leadership Institute Broadcast School of Journalism, a conservative media seminar for $50, meals included.

[progressivejazz]

47. My favorite story about a Rand follower:

My wife's ex-boss boss seemed like such a decent guy I was really surprised to learn he was a follower of Ayn Rand. Rugged individualism, no help to anybody else, and none asked. He bought the whole deal.

Well, the company they worked for went belly up five years ago. And poetic justice struck. Nobody helped him. Why should they--he never helped anybody in his life? He hasn't had a full-time job for five years. He went from a Director's salary and perks to very rare short-term consulting jobs. Meanwhile my wife went to a Vice Presidential job. Will she bring him on board? Never.