Why do gays/lesbians/supporters et al worry about the bible?

[Smarmie Doofus]

Why do some folks insist on accepting the other side's definition of homosexuality as a "religious" or "moral" issue.

It is neither. Sexual orientation is about psychology/biology/genetics and possibly chemistry. Seems to me, every time someone challenges the RW interpretation of bible stories ( that's what they are, folks, "stories") they are accepting the false premise that homosexuality is a *moral* issue. Gays often argue that the text is misinterpreted, taken out of context, mistranslated... all of which is probably true.

But the issue has NOTHING to do with morality... and to pursue the argument in biblical terms is to legitimize the idea that the bible has something of significance to say on this subject. It does not.


Also, we squander the opportunity to reroute the argument to where it ought to go: to the question of motivation. Why are some heterosexuals are so insistent about, so focused on, so threatened by , so *obsessed* with gay people and their place in the larger society?

It's a hetero problem ( in the mental health sense) more than it is a homo problem and the issue should be cast as such. I recommend to homos and heteros alike that they get a hold of " The Nature of Prejudice" by Gordon Allport, Harvard psychologist. It's an old, (1950's; predates the modern G and L movement)landmark study of human groups and the dynamics at work within them.

Let's let this tiresome argument about " whether gays are really bad" die a natural death and move the discussion to a higher plane.

What say ye?

[imenja]

1. If you're a gay Christian, I see why you worry

Because naturally they believe they are also children of God. As for others, in purely ideological terms their may be no concern, but the Right has used Christianity to mobilize against homosexuals. That is a source of concern for all of us.

[candy]

4. God loves homosexuals,period.

The Bible was written by men and God is divine.

I am hetero but know many homosexuals,two who got married last spring after 40 years together,and they found a welcoming church and were supported by friends and family at the church service.

It is christian fundamentalists who are against homosexuality and there aren't too many of them here in Massachusetts,thank God

[Smarmie Doofus]

8. But gay christians just keep going around in circles...

with these people. Why not at the very least open up another avenue of discussion. Homophobes interpret the bible passages the way they do because they GET something out of doing so; not because they are dispassionately convinced that "god" means what they say he means.

My point is the motivation and the psychology of the religious homophobes is and should be the issue.It is not an "honest" difference of opinion over the meaning of scripture. Fighting this battle on theological grounds is insane when that is not the true source of the problem.

[imenja]

14. I agree with that

Religion provides a pretext for their prejudice. The real problem is their social/ political desire for hatred and domination.

[Smarmie Doofus]

15. Less social and poltiical, I suspect, than psychological....

Some kind of or grotesue displacement is taking place with these people.

[Toucano]

2. I agree completely.

I don't get suckered in with those religious based arguments.

It's impossible - absolutely impossible - to win because it isn't based on rational arguments, facts or reason. That's the nature of faith. It will never be any different.

They're selective in which laws they believe should be enforced. There are certainly motives for that.

The best you can do is get them to admit that they don't have the right to impose their belief on everyone. If you're lucky and there's still a trace of reason, that is.

[Smarmie Doofus]

5. I'm a little more ambitious...

I'd like to leave'em with a little insight int o WHY they choose to think the way they do about this issue. And I do believe they "choose" to think that way.

There is something there, some sort of psychological gratification, perhaps self-satisfaction realized internally by making that choice.

Fundamentalists need encouragement toward introspection more than they need to have their bible-passages debunked.

[Toucano]

6. I admire your ambition.

I'll share one conclusion I've reached along those lines: people who have little control over their lives LOVE to exercise control over the lives of others.

Keep pushin' 'em!

[PowerToThePeople]

3. Because it might hurt

when that fundie/bigot hits you in the head with it. I get hit for my lifestyle from time to time, though I am straight. I do many things they view as "evil". Bibles bruise.

[Ladyhawk]

7. The bible actually condones truly immoral acts, so why worry about...

...its position on homosexuality?

How many times did Joshua go therefore and kill all him who pisseth against the wall? How many times did the Israelites, at the behest of their god, kill every living thing? Biblegod was a very nasty creature, not worth worshiping. It's not worth getting your panties in a twist over what such a creature would consider good or evil.

Frankly, I'm relieved the evil creature doesn't exist.

[Swamp Rat]

9. LOL!

Fuck dat crusty old, bearded mass murderer. There are much cooler gods to hang out with, like Dionysus! :D

[Ladyhawk]

11. got wine? :) n/t

[Swamp Rat]

13. As a matter of fact, my brother just brought me a bottle from Rioja,

España. It's a dark red, dry, sangre de toro. :D

Praise Bacchus! :toast:

[Devlzown]

10. Preach on, sister!

I couldn't care less what the bible says about my life and how I choose to live it. I'm a hell of a lot better than the bible makes its god out to be.

[Ladyhawk]

12. Yeah! You are a helluva lot better than that vile creature.

I doubt you're "into" genocide. :)