Why do people think * is altruistically liberating M.E. countries?

[Deja Q]

For financial reasons alone (it's called the National Debt, currently at 7.8 trillion), the US is unable to bestow such liberation. Unable whatsoever.

Indeed, why are we giving such freedom and advancement to a bunch of people in a strange land where they've not liked us that much for decades while Bush has to cut programs here at home to help our own citizens, who he is responsible for?!

Give me a break. No matter what excuse war-supporters conjure up to make Iraq seem legit, reality quickly re-reveals the truth. It was never about liberation. It was * running like a headless chicken about WMDs and imminent threats and other rubbish. *, Rumsfeld, and Powell had proven themselves to be rather less than truthful as well.

The trouble is, the past is the past. Whinging about the past is not effective. We're in Iraq now, the President did what he wanted even when the truth kept saying "No, there is no threat, there are no WMDs". We destroyed their country over a lie. And a pretty big one too. And for what? So * can have a relic nailed into the White House wall instead of being put in a museum where it belongs? (in the same room where Clinton got his gun nailed, no less, but with that we didn't create chaos that threatens far more than it "promises" to improve anything...) We need to stay in Iraq - in a truly altruistic way (hah, yeah right) and truly fix their country. Not have anti-American lunatic soldiers torture prisoners for the sake of entertainment(1); not stand around and do nothing as historical treasures and artifacts are looted and stolen; not give no-bid lucrative contracts to companies which have big histories with the people in the President's cabinet, if not the President himself. All of those elements are unethical.

And, yes, Saddam is on trial and his sons executed. Thank goodness; his sons were not just human garbage, they were atrocious animals. Saddam little better himself. Trouble is, Saddam gave himself the best while pissing on his people. Now look at * cutting social and veteran/soldier programs while giving more no-bid contracts with companies he's in cahoots with and wince. Not to single Bush; I can't think of any leader that didn't award his friends and mistreated his enemies. You know why? We're human. People naturally help their friends and damn their enemies and even go out of their way to do the damning if they're so inclined. We're all the same, on some level, even subconsciously.

So why is the M$M now pushing the idea of exit strategy? Simple. Iran and Syria are clearly contenders for being the next targets; based on actions which don't appear to be gigantic threats at this time. (Meanwhile, North Korea is having an orgasm telling the world they've gots nukes too. x( Nevermind how they quoted the Bush doctrine right back at us, telling us that we have no monopoly on such behavior. Damn right I'm scared. x( x( ) Leaving Iraq will only leave one faction against the other; and the oil pipelines will be easier to destroy as well. Without oil, our happy little economy goes down the toilet and I doubt any of us would survive the financial impact. Ultimately, we wouldn't survive at all. But I digress. Iraq is now a hot potato and problem child for us and we need to continue our conquest while the timing is good.

If the US was truly altruistic, Bush would keep his troops over there to fix the gigantic mess he made; and wait for the rest of the world to pitch in with countries that prove to be a REAL threat. Germany is pip-squeaking about Iran and there may be a good point regarding Iran (but I don't know enough on that, do you?), but who else is going along with Germand and the US re: Iran? ((meanwhile, via economic means, it is obvious that the rest of the world's countries are partnering with each other and keeping us out. Including a recent Russia-Syria deal that should keep us all really worried; if Syria is to be an enemy, so will countries that help Syria. Russia is one of them. What Bush is doing is dangerous... but if it's all regarding peak oil, then I do understand why he means "compassionate conservative" and "untamed fire of freedom". Especially if that singer was correct when suggesting that freedom means having nothing left to lose. ))

You bet I'm scared. I think that Doomsday Clock website needs to read 23:58:52 by now.

Notes:
(1) By no means was it all of our troops that did those heinous acts, and I do support the troops and those over there regardless who are trying to make life better for the people over there; as has been told to us by Bush. Not all of the troops were vile, many are just doing what they're told, and there are also many who are trying to do the right thing. It is not a black/white issue. I've seen MANY pics showing every type of troop over there (torture pics, scaring children pics, helping children pics, all of it - it is a complex issue and worthy of a separate post, but I'll complete my current mindset after closing this bracket: ) It was but a small group of traitors, who'll get every second of prison time they deserve, The acts they committed, whether it was deliberate or if the situation made them go bonkers, is not tolerable and it was a huge kick up America's anus, for our credibility has been severely knocked down thanks to their acts alone. They were not patriotic, they were disgraceful.

[LynnTheDem]

1. 1. Because they're ignorant of any & all facts.

2. Because to think anything else is too horrifying for them to contemplate.

3. Because after all the first round of justifications were proved false, they're desperate to latch onto the current justification because of #2 above.

4. Because the myth of "America the White Knight" is so deeply ingrained, many Americans can't even conceive of any American ever doing anything wrong.

5. Because it would take too much effort to bother finding out the facts or thinking about the huge pile of evidence that this justification is as bullshit as all the others were. Much easier to just chant whatever the latest excuse is.

[atommom]

5. What she said! nt

:thumbsup:

[xchrom]

9. you give the american people too much credit.

they have a murderous side.

give americans a public hanging or lynching and they'll turn out in their suday finest with the kids and picnic baskets.

they know the war is wrong -- they are intent on ''punishing'' for 9-11.
and like how we treated african americans after slavery ended -- we are indiscriminate in who we deliver our justice to -- as long as they are arab and accidently have a bunch of oil.

oh no, if there are any innocents in the american landscape -- it's those who opposed this war.

[izzie]

2. People do not know History and it is like RR and the wall

Some how half this country has forgot we were in the cold war for 50 years and RR did not stopped it but it may have stopped when he was in office so he takes credit. To bad we could not let them see the 911 was when Bush was in office. Use what is good for you I guess.

[papau]

3. In Mid-East, Bush support is kiss of death to Democracy - see Lebanon

:-(

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=109&topic_id=19636&mesg_id=19636&page=

:-(

[ablbodyed]

4. You don't want my response>>>>

but here it is, anyway. Most murcuns are willfully ignorant: they rarely know what is happening across town (unless the voyeuristic local 'news'twits make a big deal of it) let alone across a state line. They HATEHATEHATE history, geography, or anything to do with knowing facts. They're self-righteous, self-congratulating bimbos and bimbers who 'think' we're the good guys because that takes no brains. Selfish and greedy, most have no concept that the rest of the world hates this country's policies. Some may have compassion, but most do not.
Add to that the pervasive influence of organized religion that promotes stupefaction, you get what we have now, a pathetic population of political and social morons.
They eat the chaff and throw away the wheat, and think that they are getting a banquet. Because the bars of the financial cage they're in look like gold, they polish them and think that they live in a palace.
Also, and here I'm going to be flamed: the 'melting pot' analogy if flawed. We are NOTNOTNOTNOTNOT a nation, we are a country. A nation has a common history, language, culture. Holland is a nation, Spain is a nation (though with some historical splits that are now becoming violent). In Holland a government can take higher taxes and provide greater services, because a citizen can feel that he is getting something from it, but that others with similar situations and background are benefiting. In the USA, there is no commonality, and none in prospect. That is why 'getting mine' is the operative term for the vast majority, and why there will ALWAYS be a huge segment in poverty.
Rant over, but not my anger.

[Robbien]

6. Why? Because corporate media blasts out that falsehood 24/7

How would the average Jane and John Doe know any different?

[H2O Man]

11. Very good answer.

The media says that most Americans think _________. Thus, most Americans think that it is correct to think __________. The more they "think" about it, the more they "think" __________.

The corporate fills in the blank as needed. This month, most Americans think that President Bush was right after all. Next month, most Americans will think something else that benefits the corporate interests ..... or at least the media will report most Americans do.

[mmonk]

7. propaganda + cognitive dissonance

[leesa]

8. Because the reality of US efforts is too bad. They need to pretend

we are behaving nobly

[Protagoras]

10. Because many arrogant and ignorant

people thought (and probably still think) that it's altruistic to CIVILIZE the Indians, to help the African immigrate to the US on slave ships, to bring Christ to South and Central America at the end of a gun.

We've a long history of humans having no trouble whatsoever killing, torturing, and enslaving each other in the name of their altruism. Funny how that paternalism always has some kind of economic and power benefit for the bringer of such "truths".

Heck we even have the (ir)Reverend Phelps picketing the funerals of AIDS victims screaming that "GOD HATES FAGS"...and he thinks that's a good thing.

I think the truth is kinda simple actually...half our species still have a brain that's only sufficiently developed to lick termites off a stick.

[applegrove]

12. Because 'altruistic democratic promotion' works best with huge

transnational corporations. As long as bare bones economic policies are also instituted... the corporations can rule a smaller democracy more efficiently than the strong men and elites the USA & the West used in the past. And it takes the cash out of the hands of the Islamists the old American policies created and encourage... and puts the cash in many, many hands. Concentration of wealth disappears in the ME with democracy.

Liberals always believed that democracy would work to create security and fewer radicals. Neocons stole that from us when they realized what a horrid mess old right wing policies had made of the ME.