Tipping a Beer with an American Fascist

[WilliamPitt]

Part of my weekly routine involves a quiet beer and a book at my local tavern at the end of the week. The place is deserted on Sunday nights – just myself and Jim the bartender most of the time – so I can sit in a little cone of silence with a pint of Boddington’s and plow through whatever’s next. This week, by the way, it’s George Washington, A Life by Willard Sterne Randall. Good stuff so far.

I was a few pages into the book when a man with a gray beard and a battered white outback hat sat down beside me and ordered a drink. I have this terrible habit of talking to strangers – yes, I am not the guy you want to sit next to on the plane – so I struck up a conversation. Two hours later, I finally crept back into the night with my head spinning, and not from the beer. I had just finished talking politics with a true-blue American fascist.

More:

http://forum.truthout.org/blog/story/2005/3/14/10853/2270

[Wright Patman]

1. 'Fascist folk singer'

seems an oxymoron to me.

Fascist country music singer is almost redundant.

[Walt Starr]

2. Sounds like Charlie Daniels from the description

:shrug:

[jackster]

7. I too thought Charlie Daniels,

the physical description alone had me thinking it might be Daniels, and the views are right in line with some of the stuff I've seen on Daniel's emails - it's way way WAY out there.

But how could you describe him as a folk singer?

But then, how could a folk singer be fascist? doesn't make any sense.

Yep, I believe it's Daniels and the folk singer description should be COUNTRY singer!

[WilliamPitt]

11. It wasn't Charlie Daniels

[Blue_Roses]

14. can we have another hint

like his age, or something--:shrug: anything to know whether we have bought his CDs?

You're killing me here....

[WilliamPitt]

15. I'd be surprised if you'd ever heard of him

and no, no hints.

[Blue_Roses]

18. You might be surprised

considering my age;) nevertheless, I respect your decision and understand:)

BTW--great article:thumbsup:

[TWiley]

55. I thought it was hilarious during the super bowl

when that young rapper took Charlie Daniels hat off and started wearing it. Charlie had a severe case of "hat hair" and his head had curves that advanced calculus could not define.

Meanwhile, the rapper was bouncing around on the stage while Charlie's face was radish red.

[stevedeshazer]

3. I didn't know Michael Savage was a folk singer?

:)

[murray hill farm]

4. Will...

I really love your writing style.

[NecessaryOnslaught]

5. Boddington's is good shit n/t

[What Is This Crap]

10. HEAR HEAR

the cream of manchester rules!

that alone makes this thread goldmine-worthy

[WoodrowFan]

6. Good God

it's conversations like that that really, REALLY make me afraid for my country.

[FreedomAngel82]

41. I am afraid too

And it's going to be a long hard battle. I think it's been happening over the last few years but it's just now starting to show signs. I was reading the other people's comments and it's truly scary. Someone here posted an article where some extremist rightwinger wanted to have camps for Muslims. The Germans didn't know what was going on either to the Jews. The worst part is it's happening to our families, friends, school mates, work colleagues etc. You never know when you'll run into someone like this. Especially in your "red" state and in the south.

[Blue_Roses]

8. this had to be Charlie Daniels

...??? If not him, then there are two of him walking around 'cause when he performed here, he was interviewed on the news briefly, and he spewed the same garbage. People like this are what give the south a continuing bad name.

You're braver and more patient than I--Kudos:thumbsup:

[Walt Starr]

13. Since Will said it isn't Daniels

I have no clue who it could be.

[Cleita]

9. Well, hit any bar, anywhere in America between the Allegheny

mountains and the Sierra Nevada in the west and you pretty much run into the same mentality. The only difference is when the bartender starts hearing a political argument, he will threaten to throw you out if you continue talking about politics, particularly if you are to the left.

I'm surprised he was so outspoken in a large liberal city like Boston. But it is scary knowing how the other half thinks. I take it he was neither, black, hispanic nor Asian, just your basic issue white guy who votes Republican.

I think our society, which is still pretty segregated and homogenous in it's neighborhoods, breeds a kind of contempt for anyone who is different from another, thereby giving the GOPirates a wedge issue a divider if you wish, to appeal to the basic bigotry and prejudices of white American protestants and often Catholics these days.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. I'm surprised he was so outspoken in a large liberal city like Boston.

It's just showing us how comfortable they have become in their fascist speak. Since the government thinks like that, they feel VERY comfortable spewing their hatred. It's become acceptable in their circles/world. :(

[FreedomAngel82]

43. Another scary thing to think about

is a lot of them are self-proclaimed Christians who claim to follow Christ and do these awful things in his name. Just like when Bush called the whole middle east thing a crusade and when he said God told him to strike. :\

[IrateCitizen]

12. I became quite numb to this during my time in the military...

I had a platoon sergeant when I was a platoon leader who was a true-blue American fascist. He was a decent guy at heart, and the two of us got along very well, but we couldn't have been two more different people. He was relatively poor, worked three jobs in order to get ahead, and was convinced that "libruls" were the true enemy.

He spoke of science with disdain, saying he "didn't trust it", but fully embraced dominionist fundamentalist Christianity. And I remember one time him saying to me, "I don't want to have to THINK, I just want to follow orders." I was just completely stunned.

[NoPasaran]

17. He knows for a fact that there are ten suitcase nukes

Folksingers are always the first to know about clandestine weapons caches, aren't they?

[tavalon]

51. Would that fall under the same catagory as

the idea that our government knew that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because we still have the receipts?

[SmokingJacket]

19. This fills me with despair.

What to do about this? How can we convince these people that, as a matter of fact, Muslim lives are every bit as important as theirs? That's what it comes down to, isn't it?

You can't argue with these people, because they don't hold the same basic assumptions. I mean, everything I believe and argue from rests on the idea that every human life is valuable. If you disagree with that -- no dialogue makes any sense.

It just freaks me out.

All one can hope is that these insane people are in the minority.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. Something I just remembered

is even Bush said not to hate Muslims and all that. But these people obviously didn't listen or care. They don't think that they could be terrorist's too. Only thing different is the way about doing the deed(s).

[blue neen]

20. I don't think I would have tipped a beer--I would have guzzled it.

How did you keep your composure throughout his diatribe?

This is very frightening talk, indeed. Our country is being fueled by hatred, and the Texas oil man in the White House is the pipeline.

[Generic Other]

21. I'm guessing it wasn't Pete Seeger

I would think you'd find a fascist folksinger making up jingles for Madison Ave not singing for the troops on the frontlines!

[truebrit71]

22. Coulda been worse...they might have run out of Boddington's...

Mmmmmmmmmmm Boddington's.......

The Cream Of Manchester.

[Swamp Rat]

23. What an Oxymaroon!

A fascist folk singer? :wtf:

You are a gentleman Will, and showed incredible restraint, especially since he invaded your sanctuary. There are a few like him in my circle too, but since I have to live in the same community, I avoid discussing politics.

Sometimes I joke with a local character who I call "Southern Buddha" because he is Buddhist, yet wants to nuke the entire ME - hates "ragheads" and openly advocates exterminating them. I tell him things like, "I've gotta go to my clandestine Commie meeting now. We're toasting Hillary Clinton and Mao, and will be reading select verses from the Koran." Then we laugh and I leave. :)

[Zorra]

24. Sadly, I also have this T-shirt. A closet full of them .

My all-time least favorite from a staunch Bu*h supporter after a ridiculous "discussion": "I'm a nazi. Yeah, I am a nazi." He said it with intense passion, a proud smile, and a scary gleam in his eyes.

Once, before the invasion of Iraq, in a cantina full of ex-pats gleefully discussing the probable upcoming invasion, I loudly proclaimed, sarcastically, "Yeah, lets just nuke all the Arabs and let God sort 'em out." This resulted in a simultaneous eruption of "yeah!" and smiles and cheers all around. I smiled sardonically, stood up, and walked out shaking my head.

I think you are right, Will, it is going to be a long 21st century, unless the fascists manage to kill off all life on the planet before too long.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. He was a proud Nazi?

:wtf: Disgusting! :puke:

[democracyindanger]

25. I don't think you call him 'informed.'

Delusional, yes, but informed? Not by the generally accepted definition of the word.

[Syrinx]

26. sounds like Bob Roberts

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0103850/

[ghostsofgiants]

49. Dude(tte), you just made me choke on my own spit

Haha, Bob Robets was the first thing I thought of too (aside from the physical description...doesn't sound too much like a Tim Robbins looking fellow).

[Syrinx]

53. I didn't think anyone remembered that movie

thanks for being there. ;)

[The Revolution]

27. Fascism needs to happen here, he said, and soon

He actually said that ?!?

Every day I feel like we're getting closer and closer to the point of no return. We have to stop these people.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bpilgrim]

29. "It is going to be a long 21st century" I fear, just the opposite

interesting read, i hope it isn't contagious :scared:

peace

[ClayZ]

30. Pete Seeger .... What music does!

Frank Beacham's conversation with Pete Seeger was recorded on April 21, 1998.

http://www.beacham.com/id7.html (17 minutes)




Pete Seeger is MY HERO!

[Kurovski]

31. "So much for Bob Hope."

*sigh*

Good read.

[Jim Sagle]

32. "It is going to be a long 21st century, I think."

Or maybe not. :scared:

[VelvetMonkeyWrench]

33. Its nothing to be concerned about

Its the extreme views on each end that define where the middle is. You just happened to find someone a few standard deviations away from the norm. Now you know where the end point of the bell curve sits on the right hand side.

The area under the curve a few standard deviations from the norm is what matters - and its quite small.

[Rose Siding]

36. That implies acceptance

"Its nothing to be concerned about"

This: He said his first order would be to ship out of the country every single person of Muslim descent, and “screw all that ACLU crap.” -isn't the other side of any political spectrum.

That's blind, tribalistic fear transformed to hatred.

That has to be reviled, not dismissed with apathy.

[VelvetMonkeyWrench]

42. not really

>That has to be reviled, not dismissed with apathy.

Reviling it gives it a higher profile and the possibility of gaining more traction than simply ignoring it. Yes, it is indeed a side of a political spectrum - EVERYTHING is. Think of it as a 3D bell curve. Somewhere out there are the Storm Front boyz, radical eco-anarchists, the hard line Stalinist communists, the touchy-feely French style communists, Pol Pot style murderous loons, pure capitalists, etc. The fringes of that 3D curve encompass a fair amount of acreage when viewed from the top, but not a whole lot of volume. Politics is NOT a 2D picture. Even the 3D visualization is not entirely accurate as a lot of people may hold far right positions on some issues and far left on others making them hard to categorize.

I see no advantage to essentially helping people promote positions that are so marginal they'll never be realized anyway.

IMO, the Germans made a similar mistake with their banning of Nazi symbols and such. All that did was give the skinheads a rallying point to latch onto.

Look at what happened with Mel Gibson's Passion after all the left leaning media started bashing the heck out of it -- it became a worldwide hit. If it had been ignored, it probably would have had a 4 week or so theatre run and that would have been it. As a movie, I found Passion to be mind numbingly tedious in the scourging/whipping scenes. It would have been a much better movie if 45 minutes of scourging had been replaced with 45 minutes of informative historical background and context - Gibson assumed everyone seeing it would be experts on the particular setting of the depicted 12 hours, which I wasn't.

Burt Reynolds has been known to say there's no such thing as "bad publicity". He's right to a large degree.

[MARALE]

58. I have to disagree with you

I think that the scary thing about this is that the bell curve is shifting extremely to the right. It is getting extreme when an otherswise sane person could say this and think it is okay. This is Nazi type thinking and it is spreading.

Also, the media is not liberal leaning, if you are a newbie and say this, some one might think you are a troll

[VelvetMonkeyWrench]

61. Please...

Some of the media leans left, some right. If you can't see this, then you are blind.

It was pretty plain to me that most of the critics of Gibson's movie were coming from the leftish leaning quadrants of the media space, and the rightish quadrants were gushing praise over it.

I went to see it only because I wanted to see what all the hoopla was about. If that hoopla didn't exist, I'd have never bothered to go see that kind of movie. QED

PS: the critics were wrong, and the gushers too kind.

[Ladyhawk]

50. It's not as rare as you think it is.

My family and most of the people I've known all my life have spouted such beliefs. After 9-11, my mother said, "Now you know why we had to put the Japanese into internment camps."

I just stood there and looked at her, slack-jawed. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. But I've heard a lot of it since the towers went down.

[CrispyQ]

60. This Christmas, my mother told all of us

that we should nuke the entire middle east AFTER we send all the Muslims back there.

And she wonders why I never call or visit anymore.

[sendero]

34. Buy guns

... we're gonna need them :)

[AwakeAtLast]

35. Well, Burl Ives is dead, so it's not him

hmmm....don't have a clue who it could be. I am truly shaken by this person's ideas, however, I do find it interesting that this conversation did not end up becoming inflammatory. There seem to be a lot of encounters with people such as this person who have a hard time discussing without arguing. From what you write, this did not happen. Very interesting, indeed.

[porkrind]

37. What a dumbass.

Another brainwashed and braindead right winger. What good is being articulate if you don't have anything intelligent to say? You should have left him to his insanity and gone back to your book.

[hickman1937]

38. Are fundys working themselves up to a kristallnacht?

This time the target is muslims?

[Carolab]

39. Sounds like Toby Keith to me. n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

46. Speaking of Keith

I was reading an article where he said he was a self-proclaimed Democrat. Uh. Yeah. And he's for Bush's war? I don't think so buddy. No self-proclaimed and true-blue democrat would be for this nonsense.

[NightTrain]

40. Hey, Will: Is it OK if I read this on my next NAKED LUNCH RADIO broadcast?

I'll give you proper credit, of course!

[Jesus Saves]

47. A right wing folk singer is a rare beast

I'm curious as to who he is.

[DoYouEverWonder]

57. You would be surprised

there are a bunch of nazi folkies down around South Florida. Most of them hate my guts. I almost got killed at a folk fest down there last year for opening my big mouth about Iraq and Bush. I just about sent one fellow into seizures.

[RandomKoolzip]

48. David Allen Coe?

Utah Phillips?

Rusty Kershaw (is he dead?)?

Kenny Rogers?

Dammit, Will! If I promise not to tell anyone, will you PM me?

[VOX]

52. Rusty Kershaw died in 2001, and the tour schedules for all the others...

don't allow for an East-Coast meetup. :shrug:

[VOX]

54. Tom Rush? Tom Paxton? Oscar Brand? Terry Kitchen? John Wesley Harding?

Certainly not Arlo Guthrie. It would take a major ingestion of Kool-Aid for any of the above-mentioned names to have gone over to the dark side. :crazy:

Stumped. And very dispirited.

[RandomKoolzip]

59. Sammy Walker?

Isn't Tom Rush dead? Since it's Boston, I woulda said Dave Von Ronk, but he's dead too.


Tom Johnston? Jorma Kaukonen? Jerry Jeff Walker? Rock Killough? Michael Franks? Kenny Rankin? Benny Madrones? Jerry Reed? Tony Rice? Leon Russell?!?


My money's on Jorma Kaukonen. He plays a lot in New England, and he's a weird cat (back i n the Hot Tuna days, him and Jack Casady would take a few months off a year to go ice skating in Europe; it helped them escape the self-destructive drug habits of their peers) who wears American flags on his clothing all the time.

[0007]

56. Great article! Sounds like some of the folks I talk to here in Midland