Why won't Dems show that R's are immoral people?

[begin_within]

Republicans kill, lie, steal, covet, plunder, cheat, pillage and rape. They violate most of their beloved "commandments" on a daily basis - yet they claim that Democrats are "immoral." Republicans have no problem trashing and demonizing democrats and liberals - yet Democrats won't point out the obvious immorality of 99% of the Republicans' deeds. Why won't the Democrats use "morality" against the Republicans? It would be so easy; the evidence is right there in front of them, yet they won't expose the Republicans for the immoral people that they are - why?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[piece sine]

2. you need a good, stiff drink

make that three; it's St. Patty's Day.

[begin_within]

3. And I'm half Irish. But I don't drink.

[undergroundpanther]

7. Maybe because

Dem's too are corrupted by sex,money and power too. And would lose any pretense of being"for the people" if their dirty deeds behind closed doors were found out? RW Bullies have no shame so they can freely extort people who may feel ashamed of their bad deeds..This is why I think the Dem's are such cowards..Other Dem's may have drank the Kool aid seeing no way out. Some Dem's may just be pretending they care..

[Bertha Venation]

4. Why won't Reps show that D's are immoral people?

Democrats who believe in them break "the ten commandments" too. Democrats flout laws, hurt people, cheat, lie, steal, too.

We are all human. We all, one way or another, hurt each other.

Give it up.

[ComerPerro]

37. They do. All the time. That's how they campaign

They are the ones who run on a platform of morality and values. They are the ones who shroud themselves in this bullshit image of purity and moral clarity.

That is why they should be exposed.

I think its time to put an end to their "holier than thou" bullshit.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

5. Because

most people conveniently understand morality to refer only to other people's sex lives and not to ethical behavior.

[forgethell]

17. No, I think

you're wrong, there. It's not an either/or proposition. You can be against "sexual immorality" and theft, murder, and rape, too. There is no logical inconsistency.

But while I can remember several Republicans who were dishonest in some fashion, or got caught with a young woman they were not married to, etc. I'm not sure where I have ever read any Republican applauding that behavior. Do you know of one?

They may be more interested in private morality that social morality, but they seem to turn like piranhas on those of their own who violate their codes.

[fertilizeonarbusto]

24. They don't applaud it, but

a convenient excuse (not available to non-Rethugs) is made, like Henry Hyde's "youthful indiscretion"-committed in his fifties.

[forgethell]

25. Oh?, like

we didn't make "convenient" excuses for Bill Clinton's atrocious misbehavior in office. "It was private". Not that I care, one way or the other, but I think we should be very careful about accusing them of things that we, ourselves, are guilty of.

Also, if it is private for us, then it must be private for them.

If personal attacks are beyond the pale for them to do, it must also be beyond the pale for us.

If rigging the vote is wrong for them, it is wrong for us, also (historically Democrats have cheated more, if only because they had more opportunity, controlling most government bodies until the last few years).

If filibustering is good for us to do, will we feel the same way about it when we retake the WH and Congress, but don't have our 60%. This is the trouble with trying to change the rules; they will stay changed, for both sides.

Whatever we do, the Repukes will feel justified in doing when it is their turn. And they'll be right.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. How About If They're Doing It With OUR Money

Clinton didn't spend of our money on his stupid affair. The repubs spent all the money tracking down an extramarital fling.

All we need to do is focus on the profligate waste of OUR money. Using other people's money, without their direct consent, to make their own lives ideal is prima facie immoral. That's all we need to point out.
The Professor

[forgethell]

29. good.

point it out. I mean, we haven't tried that yet, have we?

I don't think a substantial portion of the public agrees with you, just based on the evidence of outrage that I see. Which is practically none.

But whatever you think will work can be tried. Maybe something will halt the Bush juggernaut.

[ProfessorGAC]

31. The Lack Of Outrage Is Based Upon What They DON'T Know

That's why i think we need to do it.

I write LTTE's all the time. I'm trying to educate. I've gotten two articles published in small dailies near my home.

I use the terminology and try to reframe the debate. The point is to GENERATE THE OUTRAGE, not to wait for it and then capitalize on it.
The Professor

[forgethell]

32. As I said,

you can try.

Being a professor, whose job it is to teach, perhaps most of the people you meet are genuinely ignorant of current events. I don't think that is true of most Americans. I think they disagree with us because they have a completely different world-view.

That's why I think trying to "re-frame" the issues is laughably doomed to failure. People are more interested in the meanings of words than they are in the words used to describe those meanings. We can't pick up the "values" thingee just by saying we have values, too. They know that. They seem to disagree with those values. That is what they vote for or against, not the word itself.

But, I could be wrong. What have we got to lose? Except time and resources.

[Yupster]

36. Even worsier forgethell

When the Dems retake the presidency, the Reps will filibuster every single judge, will not feel the least bit guilty about it, and the media will say they're doing the same as the Dems did.

I really do think a long term answer to the judge thing has to be worked out. To me "Advise and Consent" does assume a vote.

A solution needs to be worked out.

[forgethell]

38. Yep.

Personally, I think as long as judges are going to interfere in political matters, they should stand for election. Or have limited terms. Or both.

[NewJeffCT]

41. My saying on this one...

If a Republican did something bad before today, they can write it off as a youthful indiscretion. Given that, *'s lies about WMD were a youthful indiscretion.

[Johonny]

6. I think they do.

But lets face it the "moral" leaders of the country that many (most) people turn to in their churches and else where do not listen.

[undergroundpanther]

8. If you have no conscience

Morality is just a game to you. a tool,a way to win and control and influence people with a conscience.
Being a liberal,a Dem or a Christian,a Phd..is no guarantee against a person having sociopathy.

[Johonny]

18. But isn't morality

just a game. I mean aren't adults suppose to figure out that things like absolute morality are games that always seem just out of grasp of definition.

[undergroundpanther]

21. Do you like watching loved ones suffer

Do you think to yourself hey,it might be fun to make my sister cry on command by twisting her arm..or hey I'll go out have sex behind my wifes back and play a head game with her and see if I can mess with her head until she kills herself..

Do you ever think of doing shit like that because you can?

If you don't want to hurt people for fun,you don't like the idea of deliberately neglecting or starving your own pets when they fail to get you attention from a dog loving lady you wanna conquest sexually..than you have a conscience,love is the source of natural morality expressed in a desire to care..

If you weigh the pros and cons of deliberately withholding your child's lunch money when they go to school,and doing something like that appeals to you just because you can,it's fun,and you get to to control them and stress them out,and you are wondering if you'll be caught as your only reason to give them money,than you are a sociopath.

On the other hand... If you don't like the idea of your child being hungry all day because you empathize with your child,than you are moral by default. Get it?

Morality has NOTHING to do with certain beliefs,a religion or certain ethics... it has everything to do with honestly loving, caring about and showing concern for others well being and all..Sometimes even at your own expense,you care and you demonstrate that care.

[forgethell]

26. Then if this is so,

Bush is not an evil man? Hitler was not an evil man? Stalin was not an evil man? Castro is not an evil man?

John Kerry is not a good man? Howard Dean is not a good man? John Edwards is not a good man?

It just depends on your opinion, which is as good as anybody else's? And you're not evil if you kill the people who annoy you?

OK.

[Democrats_win]

9. Because its immoral to throw rocks at people in glass houses.

[daydreamer]

10. Nice people are generally not mean enough

That's just our nature.

[TWiley]

11. Because Republicans go to Church and are tagged as

the moral supremacists. I really feel that the best possible strategy for the Democrats would be to embrace religion that espoused liberal values.

After all, If Jesus was political, he sure as hell would not be a conservative republican. Those idiots would tag him as a communist and crucify him once again.

At best, Republican "morality" is tribalism by nature, and racist by definition. They have a farmers "barnyard view" of America. Cows that do not reproduce get slaughtered, sexual activity must be strictly governed with the goal of reproduction, and of course no cross-breeding is allowed. In their world each animal has but one purpose. If you happened to be a plow horse, then you would plow until you died, and then the farmer would make glue from your carcass. The strongest chicken in the barnyard can and should take all the food from the others. After all, it is that chickens "moral obligation" to do precisely that.

I find that this is the general nature of republican morals.

[ArkDem]

28. What would a farmer do with all that glue?

[TWiley]

33. Probably give it to Humpty Dumpty

so he could glue the country back together after Americans finally wake up.

[ArkDem]

34. Better watch out for the 'strongest chicken'!

[TWiley]

35. Yep, that little buzzard will hog all the corn every time.

I watched a program on Discovery that documented a South American cultures demise.

Sexually, this tribe was very liberal. They had a festival once a year where other villagers would ask permission to have sex with other peoples wives. It was considered an honor to be asked, and the husband was flattered if more men wanted to have sex with his wife. Nobody had to worry about going hungry in the village, or what would happen if they became crippled. The villagers considered this their primary responsibility.

Things went south when one husband got jealous of others affections toward his wife at festival time. His "possessiveness" turned to materialism and greed. He was not interested in helping the others, he was only interested in stockpiling as much as he could for himself.

This resulted in the villagers first murder, and one of the only acts of violence they had ever encountered. The greedy one had brought this village to murder and crisis.

[ArkDem]

44. Are you sure that wasn't a village in Arkansas?

[Jesus Saves]

12. Because somewhere along the line our party lost its mojo

It became the party of policy wonks. It forgot how to tell stories, and actually engage people.

Hopefully we're getting it back.

[blm]

13. The evidence is right there? On WHAT news channel? Media won't let

Dems tell the truth about the GOP in any PUBLIC way.

Whenever the news outlets air ANY type of GOP crookery, they sanitize it first with Rovian spin.

[Hatalles]

14. There's nothing to show... it's all out on display.

The problem is, is that those who vote Bush and his cronies shut out the hypocrisy. To the Bush voter, words speak louder than actions.

[leyton]

20. The people who run the party want to ignore this.

They want to think that people vote hte issues, that people peruse the entire newspaper, that people see through the bullshit of the GOP. A lady told Adlai Stevenson that he had the vote of every thinking person. Stevenson countered that he needed a majority. Sadly, we're in the same place today, and our party does not have the infrastructure or the noise machine to compete with the Republicans when it comes to getting out our message and calling out the GOP.

[IrateCitizen]

15. Morality isn't worrying about what OTHER PEOPLE are doing...

As much as the majority of Republicans, and a fair number of Democrats, would like you to believe. Morality is striving to live your own life in a way that is virtuous according to the general norms of society and the basic knowledge of good and bad that most people have (even if they refuse to acknowledge it).

[dxstone]

16. The Reeps do such a good job of showing it themselves...

But I know whatcha mean... the Dems refuse to fight fire with fire; they don't use the same low animal cunning behaviors and strategies that characterize the Roveian hordes...
Which puts Reeps at an advantage, one much like the advantage the first Americans had over the British. The Brits acted as if it was beneath their dignity to change their battle tactics when confronted by guerilla attacks... and guess who won?
The biggest problem, though, is that there are so few Dems left who haven't been turned to the Dark Side... and the fact that the media is an inky black hole from which no light or actual news can escape, we all know that. Outside of cyberspace, the citizenry might just as well get their news from children's cartoon shows as from any network you could name...
It seems kinda ludicrous, though, that anyone would need to have the obscene disgusting evil emenating from this current White House pointed out to them; if they're not seeing it already, I'm not sure there's anything that can be done to educate and enlighten such blind sheep...



Still, I do what I can...
Have you seen the latest?

WHITE HOUSE TO BE PAINTED ENTIRELY BLACK!
Bush: "It's Time For a Change"
http://www.presidentevilonline.com/scarynews.html

D
"Yes, greed IS good... if you're a demon from hell, that is..." --anonymous demon from hell

[Lexingtonian]

19. but those are acceptable crimes

I mean, the Bible calls them wrong, but no one outside a monastery ever actually believed in those rules. The Bible is only really useful in pointing out crimes and misdemeanors that other people commit which *people don't like*.

The Right is morally degenerate at present. All the standard crimes and criminality of colonialism are increasingly acceptable to them again. These are people who tell you, and probably even believe, that "All politicians are corrupt"- and then always vote for the Republican. The bar gets lowered for Republicans- because they stand for The American Way. (Don't ask what The American Way is...it's too sad to explain in detail at the moment.)

That's the "why". How it ends...well, the policies have to fail, then they'll start looking at ethics again. The good news is that the Right has essentially failed in social and economic policy, so it's all propped on foreign policy. The diplomacy part of that has already failed, leaving military-political cred (which is already on the decline).

So, once Iraq and Al Qaeda are conceded as hopeless fights, Republicans will have to resort to pointing to their superior 'morality' (aka 'integrity' or 'leadership' or 'ethic') as reason for continued support. And if you look at polling, they actually have significantly higher ratings in that with Independents than Democrats do.

That's their last significant prop. When that's used up, they're finished and start losing elections.

[tinonedown]

22. I think they do

But the message gets lost in their (Rep) blurry rhetoric response and Michael Jackson trials.

[kodi]

23. why? because Democrats kill, lie, steal, covet, plunder, cheat too

morality has no politics

[TWiley]

39. I am not so sure about that. Morality has always been political.

"Morality" is nothing more than a concept of what is right and wrong. Republicans tend to believe that "Morality" can only be dictated by God and is defined by the bible.

Republican believe that greed is a virtue because through greed, wealth is created, and the creation of wealth serves society. Republicans also believe the wealthy should have little or no social responsibility to the communities or peoples where their wealth was created. They envision a world governed through a very small and powerful ruling class that legislates the "moral behaviors" of a huge peasant class. The most important area of this dictated morality would govern sexuality. Fatherless children create social burdens the royals refuse to pay for therefore pre-marital sex is a sin. Homosexual unions do not result in offspring which is the highest commandment of barnyard animals, and is therefore a sin. Heffers are good for milk, and Angus cows are good for beef. Crossbreeding produces cattle that excel at neither. Therefore crossbreeding is a sin, and the races must be kept pure.

Democrats tend to believe that the best way to govern is through a huge middle class. The middle class will sometimes side with the rich, and other times with the poor which will avoid a tyranny by either. Democrats also tend to believe that "morality" should be the providence of the individual, and that the best way to govern is through the legislation of economic morality. The Democrats correctly reason that unregulated capitalism is a sin, and that the morality of the capitalists needs to be legislated in order to protect the rights of humans and the environment. The Democrats also correctly understand that wealthy corporations and individuals do have social responsibilities to the communities where their wealth is accumulated. It is important that corporations do not pollute just as it is important that individuals do not litter.

Republicans believe that morality is given to them by God and should be dictated to the rest of us by their commandments. In general, republicans suffer with a delusional type of a "Moses" complex.

Democrats are sane enough to understand that it is in the best interest of the world and of all peoples to legislate the morality of the defective personalities which make up the "ruling class" To do this requires a huge and powerful "middle class"

This is why the bushtapo is actively impoverishing the middle class, and destroying the integrity of the vote. The republi-craps understand that a "democracy" dictated by a small and perverse ruling class can only be maintained if the election process can be controlled by them. To the bushtapo, elections should be a method to manufacture consent by creating the illusion of popular support for their perverted desires which only serve their own interests.

[Doctor_J]

30. it's hard with almost no media presence

We only have about 1% of the media as it is, and on top of that, besides Randi and Malloy and Stephanie, the rest of our media are mostly whiners who bash Dems as much as Repukes.

[liveoaktx]

40. Who says they don't? We made a bumper sticker for the car that

says "Republicans condone torture. WWJD?"

When people can put all the support the troops, W, etc crap on their car, my answer is to point out the hypocrisy on mine.

[TWiley]

42. Good for you. We need more folks to do the same.

The hypocrisy of these bigots knows no bounds.

[earth mom]

43. Dems worry too much about looking good, taking the high road,

giving people the benefit of the doubt. Not to mention that the Dems in office are so worried about being politically correct and keeping their jobs they won't come out with both barrels. Rethugs have both barrels front and center every day pointed right at us. They care not a damn if they are caught lying cheating stealing etc., because after all, jesus will forgive their sins...though jesus doesn't forgive dems their sins. These hypocritical lying sacks of shit have absolutely no-NONE NADA ZILCH-ethics or moral barometer to go by because again, jesus will forgive only their sins. What a crock! :eyes: