A cold, cruel analysis of the Terri Schaivo case.

[RubyCat]

Disclaimer: I think Terri should live under the guardianship of her parents.

Yahoo just had this story on Terri Schiavo. The given title was "Schiavo Spending First Full Day Off Tube".

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050319/ap_on_re_us/brain_damaged_woman

Here's how the republicans are going to play this one. They're going to have a "Countdown to Death" coverage for Terri. Her starvation status is going to be on TV each and every day until she dies. They will show insensitive people cheering for her death. On the day she dies, they will show these people high-fiving and slapping each other on the back. FOX will make sure of it.

They will paint these people as Democrats. I've never heard that the official stance of the Democratic party is that Terri Schiavo should die. That's new to me. While the Republicans are rabidly united on this one, that doesn't mean people should infer that the Democrats are automatically on the opposite side. But try telling that to FOX.

I respect those who believe that Terri's suffering should be put to the end. But are you sure that you should be advocating that position under the banner of the Democratic party?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I didn't think it was

what I've heard is Democrats saying that government shouldn't be getting into the business of deciding on this issue. Doesn't this jibe with the Repulican idea that 'big government' shouldn't mess with the individual? Or has that idea been thrown in the trash can along with the Republican ideal of a balanced budget?

As for your opinion about who should be guardians of Terry-I feel for her parents, but wouldn't you think that if Terry were going to get better, some progress of some kind would have been made in the last 15 years? I've not heard of any evidence of that kind.

[NC_Nurse]

2. We've already lost the people

who would buy into that crap. To them, Dems stand for everything they oppose anyway.
Meanwhile, I think that anyone with any sense is probably horrified at the lengths to which some of our elected reps like Frist, Delay, and Jebbie have gone to thwart the husband's rights and the court's decisions. I know I am.

[msanthrope]

21. You got it...let the Repukes punt this football around....

We don't have the fundie base, and we won't. But there are lots of actual conservatives who might start listening.

[Pithlet]

3. Why on earth

would I give the government the right to interfere in my own personal business and my relationship with my husband and the personal decisions we've made about our health care because I thought it made Democrats look good?

Sorry, but I don't want to live like a vegetable. And I don't want people slandering my husband when he tries to see that my wishes are followed, or politicians getting involved because THEY don't like the decision I made.

[Flammable Materials]

4. It's pointless to argue.

You'd have an easier job trying to pull a rabid hyena from a fresh kill.

[rodeodance]

7. "no business interfering in a pesonal, family matter:--this says it best

Michael Schiavo said Bush and other lawmakers have no business interfering in a personal, family matter. "These people are pandering for votes. That's all," he told NBC.

[RubyCat]

19. I love that picture. That must be a new sport among press photographers.

They're strategically blocking out letters on signs in the background to spell out what b* really represents!

[stopbush]

5. Who's taking any stance for her death as the Dem party?

There's no concerted effort by the Dems to take a position either way. It's the Rs who are taking a position. Don't fall into the simplistic logic that if the Rs take one position the Ds MUST be taking the total opposite position. That's R spin at its worst!

There's one reason and one reason only the Rs want her alive: as a political football. Believe me, it the Dems had come out as a party and argued against her being taken off the feeding tube, the Rs would have taken the opposite view and claimed the Dems were "forcing doctors to keep her alive artificially through pagan science when she should be allowed to pass into the pearly gates and be in heaven with her god." In addition, the R's would be taking this position about her parent's claims: "when Terri entered into the holy bonds of matrimony, she became as one with her husband. The sanctity of marriage demands that her husband's wishes be acknowledged because his wishes are her wishes."

The Rs are re-defining the word "ghoul" as we watch.

[suziedemocrat]

12. If you are automatically for everything R's oppose - they control you!!!

I don't want Republicans deciding what I believe in. They hate Hilary - so I must love her. All my Republican friends keep baiting me with all this Hillary talk - I don't like her - so I finally told one of them to stop talking to me about Hilary because I don't like her that much. Don't get me wrong - she's a hell of a lot better than Rudy - but I don't think she's as good as her husband.

The phrase that makes me the most angry is "pro-abortion." Who is "Pro-abortion?" It's PRO_CHOICE! I think abortion is horrible - but I think it should be legal. I know a woman who had an abortion and it was a very tough decision and not one she made lightly. Abortions were DOWN under Clinton. Democrats aren't running around saying "Let's kill all the unborn children."

A Republican friend of mine was going on and on about how awful gay marriage was and I said "You can think something is immoral - but it doesn't have to be illegal. Most people think adultery is immoral - but it is not illegal." I then asked him how HIS life would change if gay marriage was in fact legal?

It's the same with this issue. I don't want to automatically say she should die - just because Republicans think she should be kept alive. True Freedom is the freedom to agree or disagree with Republicans. If we always have to take the opposite side - they can choose every battle and they can choose our positions on everything. Is that what we want?

[no_hypocrisy]

6. Republicans' common denominator: no nuance in death, or life.

[rodeodance]

8. you are right--it will be played out day by day on TV -that is the scary

part (in addition to the fact that this women is in the middle of this power-play over the Repug 'culture of life" ).
I think the Dems--any Dem better be careful what they say during this period. The Party could get hit pretty hard with the likes of DeLay INC and Fox et all shouting from the tops of their lungs--starvation, dying a cruel death, murdering judges, etc etc.

[RubyCat]

16. The political strategist in me, who can brush aside moral considerations,

thinks that the Democrats should steer way clear of the impending circus. We shouldn't speak a single word on this case and let the Republicans overplay their hand. People will come to realize that the Republicans are just using her as a political football. They will punish the Republicans in congress for it.

"Political football" is an appropriate metaphor. We should say to the republicans, "It's your football. It's your football team. It's your field. Have fun -- we're going to sit this one out." Knowing the republicans, they're still going to put their guys on the field and have them go through the motions and play against a non-existent team. They're going to score, oh, about 800 touchdowns in 4 quarters. They'll do a lot of showboating after each touchdown. Then they'll be wondering why everyone is looking at them in a funny way.

[mondo joe]

10. More like: CONTROL CONTROL CONTROL

I think they're actually very nuanced when it suits them.

The real common denominator is: You have no autonomy or self determination. You are under control.

[Windy]

9. Don't forget

two full trials were held for the sole purpose of determining what Terri's wishes were prior her collapse and brain stem injury. The testimony of friends and family members were taken. It was determined based on "clear and convincing evidence" that it was Terri's wish not to be kept alive by artificial means. I think that is getting lost in the shuffle. The parents have disagreed with that ruling which is understandable, but apparently, many people knew what her thoughts were on this sort of decision

[Pithlet]

11. Why

public opinion is clearly more important than the law. Just look at how many people here at DU who don't seem to care that Terri and Michael are legally wed. Both adults who willingly entered into that legal bond. But, that should be judged null and void despite that, and despite what the courts ruled, because of the propaganda the right to life advocates have issued to sway public opinion.

I think the whole thing is sick, and I'm quickly losing patience with people who want to weaken the bond of marriage and butt in because they think THEIR opinion of what should happen to total strangers carries more weight.

[spanone]

13. This is about personal choice. A judge has ruled. It's a medical manner.

Tom DeLay is prancing around like some high-minded ethical mouthpeice for right to life bullshit. Keep the fucking government out of our beds and bodies.

[Bunny]

15. You just used Tom Delay and ethical in the same sentence.

You have sinned grievously! :)

[Solly Mack]

14. I want my nickle. eom

[Quixote1818]

17. Polls are on the side of the court rueling. Nothing will come of this

It will just help Fox up it's ratings for a day or two with it's regular nutcase viewers. No one is going to hold this against the Democratic party other than those who blame the Democratic party for everything. Besides the Judge is a Southern Baptist Republican.

[UTUSN]

18. "The Democratic Banner"?

What makes us Dems is the set of issues we believe in. In this case, it's the individual's CHOICE unfettered by government and religious pressure and power.

As for the cheering, we are not doing that. It's like with CHOICE vis a vis "abortion": Nobody wants abortion:: What we want is for individuals to have their own choices from ALL the options, with their own conscience.

As for the cold, hard facts: This case is a a disgusting mixture of SCOUNDRELS (DELAY, Jeb, the fundies), COWARDS (the Dems), and distractions (keeping attention away from DELAY's own problems, among other non-DELAY issues).

The shucksterism was everywhere, with George NOORY (the faux Art BELL) reading "news" that when the tube was disconnected Terri SCHIAVO "yelped" and gave out a loud yell that the policeman in the hall could hear. There's plenty of shame to go around.

*******QUOTE*******

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2026&ncid=2026&e=1&u=/latimests/20050319/ts_latimes/schiavotakenofffoodsupply

After the procedure was complete, Felos launched into a caustic attack on Republican leaders, describing their subpoenas directed to the Schiavos as "nothing short of thuggery."

"Apparently, according to the House of Representatives, any committee member can direct a subpoena to any American citizen, forcing them to have medical treatment against their will," Felos said. "It was odious. It was shocking."

DeLay said House Republicans would not be deterred by Friday's events. He called Greer's order "barbaric" and cited Felos as "the personification of evil."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2270&ncid=2270&e=3&u=/krwashbureau/20050319/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_braindamagedwoman_subpoena_wa

In Florida, Michael Schiavo's lawyer, George Felos, called the House subpoena "odious," but he was especially harsh on Senate Democrats for even allowing any legislation affecting Schiavo to pass.

Democrats were clearly uncomfortable with any suggestion they had helped defeat legislation to keep Schiavo alive. Wyden Friday rejected Felos' characterization that he had helped defeat the legislation, saying he only wanted to be sure that any legislation would not affect Oregon's assisted suicide laws.

Eventually, Democrats agreed to pass a bill partly out of fear that the case could adversely affect the re-election hopes of Democratic Sen. Bill Nelson (news, bio, voting record) of Florida.

Nelson kept a low profile during the discussions, compared to Florida's other senator, Republican Mel Martinez, who was in the forefront of negotiations.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=2270&ncid=2270&e=2&u=/krwashbureau/20050319/ts_krwashbureau/_bc_braindamagedwoman_guardian_wa

.... Wolfson was appointed by a Florida court in the fall of 2003 to be Schiavo's guardian ad litem, or guardian at law, to deduce Schiavo's best interests and represent neither her husband nor her parents but Terri Schiavo herself.


This makes Wolfson one of the very few people to have spent extended time with Schiavo and gauged her level of awareness without having a vested interest at stake.


In the end, after long hours at Schiavo's bedside and after poring over 30,000 pages of legal documents, Wolfson concluded that Schiavo was indeed in a permanent vegetative state. ....

But Schiavo never made eye contact. When Wolfson visited her when her parents were there, she never made eye contact with them either, he said. And for all of Wolfson's pleadings and coaxing, he never got what he most wanted: a sign. ....

Wolfson was dismayed to learn Friday that Barbara Weller, an attorney for the Schindlers, claimed that Schiavo tried to speak. "Terri does not speak," he said. "To claim otherwise reduces her to a fiction." ....

********UNQUOTE*******

[uppityperson]

20. Dont want this to happen to ANYONE, want gvt out my life

I find it ironic that the republicans, the party that says it wants less gvt control, more for the people, is the one advocating gvt interference. While I don't know her personally, I really don't want anyone todie, but they do. I want death with dignity and the gvt to keep it's bloody hands out of this.

The reason it is deteriorating into us vs them is because the radical repubs are the us, and the rest of us are therefore the them. Other than that and the gvt involvment, it has nothing to do with party lines.