Liberals who want to shore up support regarding Schiavo, think about this:

[Flammable Materials]

(Sorry, I posted this as part of someone else's thread, but I originally intended on making this a thread of its own.)

Michael wants Terri to go to a better place. She has suffered for fifteen years, with no improvement and no chance of improvement.

Terri's parents want to keep her around as long as medically possible. They've already stated that if she gets diabetes and her limbs become gangrenous, it doesn't matter to them - they'll simply amputate the rotten parts and keep her around. This represents the sickest of outcomes for a family that can't come to grips with the fact that their daughter is gone. It's ghoulish, it's selfish, and it's inhumane.

Why is the religious right so violently opposed to letting someone who has suffered in a vegetative state for FIFTEEN YEARS go on to their heavenly reward? Perhaps they don't really believe in all that dogma they spout?

This is the issue. This is, I believe, the central issue behind the large amount of public support against reinserting her feeding tube. For once, the religious right doesn't get it. If we can manage to frame the discussion as "Why won't Republicans let Terri go to heaven?", I think the issue is ours.

[PC12]

1. Sadly, the Democrats are not united on this and some....

of them have come to the "aid" of DAS GOP! :puke:

Democrats have some winning issues here and they are giving them away! :wtf:?

Democrats need to re-frame the political debate to their favor. I don't want my country taken over by a bunch of fundi-facists.

[Demit]

7. They should start by pointing out it SHOULDN'T BE A POLITICAL DEBATE.

Sorry for shouting, but we are allowing ourselves to be sucked into this controversy EXACTLY THE WAY THE RADICAL GOP RIGHT WANTS IT. Resist the idea that it's a political issue, dammit! It's a family & legal guardian issue. It's a states' rights and Constitutional issue. God, this is so frustrating!!!

[Flammable Materials]

8. That's why you don't frame it as a political debate.

When you're talking with religious people, don't talk about the Constitution, or liberal versus conservative. Ask if fifteen years is long enough to wait for eternal life. If they're waiting for a miracle, ask how long must Terri wait? Isn't fifteen years enough? Doesn't she deserve to go on to whatever reward awaits her in the afterlife?

This is a great way to discuss it with religious co-workers. You don't even have to bring up Bush or the Republicans or the Democrats or any of that.

[Demit]

12. er, you said "If we can manage to frame the discussion as 'Why won't

Republicans let Terri go to heaven?', I think the issue is ours." That would be framing it as a political debate, no?

Sorry, I don't agree that the frame of the discussion should be religious, either. It's a legal issue. And it is a well-defined and long-recognized thing--legal guardians make decisions for people who are incapacitated. It is the Republican Right's fervent wish to mix religion into it, because then law becomes subordinate to belief.

And, not to be snarky, but do you really think that using reason in talking to religious people is effective? They just turn the conversation back to beliefs. If we have a hope of keeping this nation from becoming a theocracy, we have to fight back the attempts to trump law with religious belief.

(Edited to clarify.)

[PC12]

9. Then let's call it an ethical debate then.

If you have any other suggestions, please offer them.

I agree 100%+ that this is a FAMILY ISSUE, and that the Congress is out of line to get involved.

[Flammable Materials]

10. Agreed. n/t

[PC12]

11. Kick

:)

We agree!

[DIKB]

2. Do a search on

"letter to Terri" from dubya, someone posted a GIF last night about not letting her go to heaven

[Flammable Materials]

5. Actually, that was my GIF ...

I was absolutely seething about this yesterday. I had to channel some of my anger into humor - albeit black humor.

[still_one]

3. no, the issue is that politics should not be part of this

this is an issue for the families, doctors, and courts

[Flammable Materials]

6. But we're dealing with a right-wing that is running entirely on emotion.

They're not using their brains. They're not running on logic. We have to try to speak to them on their level. This is their level.

[Avalux]

4. I agree

I said much the same thing in conversation yesterday, got no response when I asked why Tom DeLay and * want Terri's soul to remain trapped and suffering. Why don't they just let her go and be with God in peace?

We all need to use this argument.

[LisaL]

13. Is her soul trapped or is her soul already gone?

Frankly, I don't believe in souls to begin with. Why in the world would anyone use it in an argument is beyond my understanding either.

[Avalux]

22. I believe in souls,

but I'm not sure if Terri's is trapped or already gone. In speaking to fundamentalist Christians though - expressing this view is effective because they aren't sure how to respond. That's why you'd use it in an argument.

[meow2u3]

14. I'd question their trust in God if I were the Democrats

If the Schindlers really had the faith and trust in God they claim to have, then why do they refuse to leave their daughter's fate in His hands? By their desperate attempts to keep her alive at all costs, even at the expense of the sanctity of marriage--a sacrament in the Catholic Church--their actions are telling at least this Catholic they lack faith and trust in God.

I'd say to the religious right: Why don't you have any faith in God? Where's you trust in the Almighty? What compels you to try to take over a task which is God's alone; deciding whether someone should live or die?

[NashVegas]

15. There's Not Nearly As Much Public Support as It Appears

Did you not see the polls? 70% say the legislative branch overstepped its boundaries.

Don't buy into Randall Terry's press.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bridget Burke]

18. Well, that's a pretty good summation of Right Wing Talking Points...

Chewed up and extruded into a steaming pile of unsupported hearsay.

Welcome to DU!

[HeeBGBz]

21. Crock

First you have to be married to commit bigamy. I guess most Rwingers would rather have M.Schaivo a martyr and not continue living while diligently spoonfeeding T. Schaivo Miracle-Gro until Medicaid and Social Security are decimated and no one can pay the hospital bill anymore. Watch them race to pull the plug on her then.

"It is an ugly situation that could have been diverted by Terri having a living will."

Yeah, or if she'd been born poor and black.

[DrRang]

17. Hang on a sec . . .

I'm as digusted by this orgy of hypocrisy as other DUers, but my sense is that we should stay out of it. When your opponents are busy shooting themselves in the foot, don't interrupt them.
As it is, the 70% to 80% majority is repulsed, but if Dems try to exploit this GOP screwup, then a certain number will start defending it just as a knee jerk political reaction. If anything, comments should be "more in sorrow than in anger," maybe phrased as "get a living will, or this nightmare could happen to you."

[Bridget Burke]

19. Quite a few of us have said this should not be a political issue.

I don't wish to shock you, but some people posting on DU aren't really sincere Democrats.

Many people, whatever their political leanings, have dealt with end-of-life issues. And they are disgusted by those making political hay off this tragic situation.

[HeeBGBz]

20. Exactly. That's the part I don't get

If living on this earth is such hell for the Fundies, why would you be so determined to keep anyone around and out of the gates of heaven.

That was the one thing that made the decision to inform the Dr's of my mom's DNR wishes less painful. Our family's faith and my mom's faith that she would be going home.