Is Bush a sociopath? (dumb question?)

[Carl Yasutomo]

I just saw an interesting article in Salon on sociopaths. A psychologist has just published a book titled something like "The Sociopath Next Door," and she estimates that 4% of people are sociopaths.

So do we think Bush is a sociopath? It would explain a lot....

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2005/03/22/sociopath/index.html

[Ladyhawk]

1. I've met at least on sociopath online.

Believe me, you don't want to mess with one because they'll always take it to the next level.

As for Shrub, yeah, I've always thought he was a sociopath / psychopath. He fits the description perfectly.

[republicansarewhores]

18. Do you realize that the "case study" Skip in that book

Is a very thinly veiled description of Bush and his past?

I loved reading the book and seeing her swipe at him, although i don't know if she'd admit it, the similarities between "case study" Skip and Bush's background are the same short of her saying "Skip" went on to become President while alluding to the damage he could do in that position of power.

I'd recommend everyone read this book, it's a real chilling glimpse into understanding people whose behavior we can't understand because they lack conscience.

RAW

[Selatius]

2. Psychopaths often become leaders, unfortunately

When there is power to be had, they are usually coming out of the woodwork for it. That is a major drawback for concentration of state power, and it is one of the reasons why I consistently, relentlessly push for solutions that attempt to diffuse decision-making power into the populace rather than placing it into the hands of a select few.

The thing with these guys is that they are not plagued by moral questions or ethical questions. If one of these guys felt that bombing entire nations into the Stone Age meant achieving an end he thought was best for US interests (or his own), you can bet that person would make that decision without a second thought and be able to sleep at night. They are not above murder, and it's not just in the political sphere but in the economic one as well. We could be talking not just the office of president but a CEO's office, or we could be talking about your general or commanding officer.

The fact that they don't allow moral/ethical issues to slow them down allows them to be quick and decisive in certain respects, unencumbered by any moral anchor that would cause many normal people to pause and hesitate.

In my mind, Gen. Curtis LeMay was one, and Richard Perle is another, perhaps. They don't call him the "Prince of Darkness" because he wanted to make peace. No, he advocated just going at it with the USSR.

Anyone who simply lacks the mental capacity to empathize with others is it. It is a mental disease.

[Swamp Rat]

3. Yes.

[applegrove]

4. No. Bush suffers from anal issues. He is a little sadistic. His head

may be filled with megalomaniac things right now but that is because who has control of him. The neocons said (1965) they needed a prissy (sadistic rule enforcer), patrician, black & white thinking (adolescent), protestant (repressed) man to control as a puppet if they ever were to get their perfect 'neocon' president elected.

Prissy, adolescent & repressed are the favored "vessels" of the sociopaths. Neocon elder like Leo Strauss liked Hitler and they felt the holocaust was caused by Woodrow Wilson making Germans feel guilty after WWI rather than by Hitler. (They want Hitler to be refashioned because they need his tool of patriotism which Hitler dirtied a great deal I think). Political operatives also study Hitler and have developed direct marketing tactics ore the years that closely resemble the 'tools of a sociopath'. Then again many political operatives can easily be described as extremely sociopathic. I don't know any.

So Bush is just the vessel they use to attract the "herd".

I think the author's stats on 4% include anti-social personalities in that. And anti-socials may have just been abused kids who can do no right... they may have feelings. True psychopaths are probably at 1% and really don't have feelings beyond rage and shallow representations of other feelings. Even at 1%, they vary in strength, talent & intelligence. Getting close and seeing inside a real psychopath is really, really, really, really scary. You do not want to do that. I unwittingly got a great big look into the existence of a big freak when I was thirty. He was a social worker - believe it or not. I went into shock for a year and could only talk about the various ways he was in my life - separately/not as a whole - it took me a year before I could accept how diabolical he was (and he had some creepy friends - but others thought he was an absolute saint). That is how scary it was. I froze, quit, said not alot and went on processing it for one full year till i had built up enough strength I guess through constant agony of being shocked..to accept the reality of what my life might become. Devastated all those around me. I don't think about that last part very often. Absolutely nothing like you see in the movies.

And yes they really do control large groups at the drop of a few suggestions. They really, really do. They can make people think anything. And it seems to be like breathing for them. And they are very, very practiced at body language.

Just remember if anyone stares at you funny and you think you may being separated from the herd ... to quit your job. If they pursue you in any way in your private life (rumour - changing people's thinking) then move across the country. Give everything up and get out of town if they seem to be the sociopath type. As I saw on TV last week, it is a sad fact that most people who go up against pure evil alone end up likely dead or almost dead. And their families are forever changed too. The hero in the news story, or the movie really goes home and sufferers a great deal.

[punpirate]

5. Well, the general opinion here...

... would probably say yes, but you might want to read this to make up your own mind: Bush on the Couch, by Justin A. Frank, M.D.

M'self, I think at least three of the sociopathic traits he shows are his tendency to lie with seeming conviction, his described ability to charm people on first meeting and his temper flaring when he doesn't get what he wants.

Cheers.

[applegrove]

8. What the neocons meant by patrician is the ability to sublimate.

That is what Bush (& many rich people do and learn from elders) is doing. Replacing one demonstrable feeling with another very quickly is what rich people likely did to develop a code that no psychopath could break - in my opinion. You could not let it all hang out during the Victorian times but you didn't want your daughter to be fair game for anyone other than another patrician..you know so it was like a club.

There were ways you had to be polite and emotions you could not show. So you replace one with another (the negative one with a big earnest smile). And really you wouldn't know you were doing it.. you just acted like the people you were around and were acting normal. Like if someone develops a sense of humor as a kid to get over some sadness.. same thing (except that that took place when you were 8 - the clown transformation and you were concious of it .. and the sublimation for patritians would just be what you knew as a baby..no other way to be).

A good example of someone who is very aggressive and sublimates that aggression very well is Bill Bradly (read in his bio that he was in fact diagnosed as sublimating aggression as a young man). If you attacked Bill Bradly he would know how to diffuse it and turn it around into polite discussion. I don't think Bill Bradly was a liar. He was just an expert at controlling his emotional tone and thus the tone of those around him. The devout will make you happy in their bliss and so will someone who turns the energy force of anger, loneliness, envy, or whatever darker emotions they feel into happiness.

I think Bush is aware some of the times when he lies. But he have cut that deal with Beelzebub and reads whatever they give him with great emphasis in the right place. He really can hide anything negative (like doubt). I just saw the tape of him talking about the 'filter of the press' and how he had to get around that. He looked like he really believed it and he probably did because he drinks the kool-aid. The fact that he is good at sharing some emotions (positive ones) is very patrician. The fact that he looses control is because nothing, but nothing can erase Barbara's effect or genes.

A sociopath would be in control. Bush is definitely not in control of what he says or does. I think the pretzel & the bike incidents were typical of a human puppet who is learning to deal with not having the control over your brain. If you look it up on the sites.. becoming accident prone is normal for the victims of sociopaths.

These days.. Bush is heavily drugged. I bet he is not as able to connect with the positive emotions he shows.. because he is feeling everything much shallower because of the drugs. You really do feel the emotion when you replace 'shock' with happiness or anger with joviality. You really do feel the happiness or the joviality. Plus - in the case of old world patricians.. you probably get allot done by avoiding conflict.

[punpirate]

11. I think you ignore a very large part of...

... Bush's history in preference to looking at him as he is now--in a position of power he effectively stole.

That's why I suggested the book I did in the earlier post. It looks at a great deal of his known history, and the changes in his behavior over time, and Frank uses the same methods used by the CIA to assess foreign leaders from what is known of them.

You might also look at The Superpower Syndrome, by Robert Jay Lifton, M.D.

Between those two psychiatrists, they paint a portrait of a man suffering from a specific kind of sociopathy--megalomania.

He was hardly patrician in his manner and bearing years ago. Sociopathy has a number of defining characteristics. I mentioned only a few of those in which Bush shows some resemblance.

I do recommend those books as a means of better understanding who's running the country at the moment. It's not someone who's learned to control his emotions out of that patrician sense of propriety in which the wealthy excel....

Cheers.

[applegrove]

12. Oh yes - I meant to ignore all the other stuff and just talk about that

particular thing that the rich do. I did not mean Bush was not a megalomaniac or part of a sociopathic daisy chain (because you would have to be nuts not to see). Sorry - I should have made it clear. I was talking about Bush's ability to connect emotionally - and how normal it would be for him to have the ability (beyond his own inherent stupidity). I think Bush was a drunk for the first 20 years of adulthood - I mean I was twice a week binger and you are too busy being dehydrated to be anything else.

I only meant to explain that tiny little bit of Bush. The one who seems warm and jovial but could easily have been feeling contempt in the seconds before the speech.

Sorry if that was not clear.

[applegrove]

13. I think I read that actually. Anal issues, sadism, megalomania,

not proper grieving in the family when his sister died, mother a mean piece of work, etc. A real sociopath would not need to grieve.

[hyphenate]

6. There is a marked difference between a sociopath and

a psychopath. I don't think he fills the role of sociopath, though--one of the main differences between the two are that the psychopath KNOWS what he's doing is wrong, and just doesn't give a fuck. A sociopath doesn't know the difference. I think he is psychopathic far more than sociopathic, because * DOES know the difference between right and wrong and still doesn't give a shit.

A good link to learn more about the intricacies of mental health is at http://www.mentalhealth.com.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

7. You might want to read this article.

I think it pretty much explains it all.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=82506

[hfojvt]

9. Mark Crispin Miller thinks so

"Bush is not an imbecile. He's not a puppet. I think that Bush is a sociopathic personality. I think he's incapable of empathy. He has an inordinate sense of his own entitlement, and he's a very skilled manipulator. And in all the snickering about his alleged idiocy, this is what a lot of people miss." Mark Crispin Miller

[applegrove]

10. Bush is inhabited by other sociopathic personalities.

A cabal is a big huge organ. Bush is just one of the lesser players. He is the puppet.

[punpirate]

14. This might be true in a more specific sense...

... and one of which Bush is aware, or not. Have a look at Leo Strauss' writings on the way in which he believes society should be structured. Strauss, very loosely speaking, believed there was a defined hierarchy which worked--at the bottom, the masses, who were swayed and listened trustingly to the aristocracy--whic projected an aura of authority to the masses. The aristocracy, in turn, received its advice from the big picture people--the advisors, the intellectual elite.

That mirrors what's going on with the constellation of neo-cons around Bush, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a puppet. His aims may be perfectly in concert with those of his advisors--and that may well be because of the nature of his personality. For example, Bush probably needed no prompting about invading Iraq. In fact, there are two sources which indicate he spoke about doing so well before the assembly of his cabinet and advisors, and well before he'd initially announced his candidacy for president.

M'self, I think he's surrounded himself with people who will not only affirm his beliefs, but provide the strategy to carry them out. That said, remember what Machiavelli said--that the purpose of political power was to maintain itself, and that the advisor's only role was to serve the State by serving the Prince. That to me defines the symbiotic relationship Bush has with his advisors.

[applegrove]

15. I read a quote somewhere and i cannot remember it - but

it talked about how Bush loves to come up with decisions that make others uncomfortable and which they have to adjust to. I forget the words exactly but I think it has something to do with him being anal & slightly sadistic. The prissy in the prissy patrician. Bad potty training perhaps.

[leftchick]

17. incapable of empathy

that is the scariest trait missing from that insane POS.

[izzie]

16. I think Yale did a well known study on this.

That a set percent would do any thing you told them, even if the test was run 100 times with different people, was a shock to people. I am not sure if doing what you are told is really just the same as doing what you wish so the study may mean nothing of what you are talking about. I am un-clear on that. I have sure met alot of people in my life that do not seem to care about the feeling of any one but them selfs.