I finally get the schindlers: Visiting an animated corpse in the hospital

[goodboy]

is better than visiting the cemetary.


They're selfish beyond belief aren't they?


on edit: as long as she's there in the room, they can hold on to that misguided opinion that she's alive and viable...that's why they talk to her even though she can't hear them, and so on.

[Avalux]

1. Very selfish -

control freaks. It's as if they get some sort of satisfaction out of her helpless state. More than likely, when Terri Schiavo was a functioning person, her parents were overbearing and controlling then too. Would explain an eating disorder.

[goodboy]

6. I think the parents are in a persistive denial state...and they're

torturing themselves...have you read what the Guardian Ad Litum said about them being willing to amputate all four of terri's limbs if they became gangrenous? Also they said that even if terri said she didn't want the feeding tube, they would not remove it.


and that's that.

[goodboy]

2. self delete sorry

[Bouncy Ball]

3. The only thing I need to know

is that they admitted IN COURT that, even if Terri had her wishes not to be kept this way written down, they STILL would have gone against them.

Just.....wow. Speechless. Her parents saying they wouldn't give a crap WHAT she wanted. Selfish, selfish, selfish.

[Dez]

4. I agree.

They don't care a wit about her wishes, they are self motiveated. Once again, religion plays it's part in this.

[mondo joe]

7. And some here are saying it's somehow sexist to not hand her over

to people who ADMIT they'd defy her wishes.

[goodboy]

13. sexist? That's the first I've heard of that...how stupid. who is saying

it's sexist, and in what way?

[mondo joe]

16. Look in the "this is a feminist and disabilities issue" thread

I'm absolutely baffled that anyone claiming to be a feminist thinks the right thing to do is to hand Terri over to her parents who admit they'd defy her wishes.

[goodboy]

20. well that's the most asinine thing I've ever heard. I guess the feminists

hate men more than they should feel compassion for this woman's wishes...not very feminist-like is it?

[mondo joe]

25. I swear I half believe it's freepers pretending to be the worst

man hating parody of a feminist.

[goodboy]

26. If feminists were enlightned, wouldn't they be above hating anyone?

[mondo joe]

27. I don't think anyone can be said to be a feminist if they advocate

turning an adult female over to the care of her parents who admit they would defy her wishes about her own body.

[goodboy]

34. in other words, they put their ideology ahead of a persons wishes?

[ultraist]

35. There are NO feminists supporting the Repukes in this

No feminist would advocate that Terri's wishes be ingored and that her body be used to promote a religiously oriented political agenda.

Those feminist comments began with a freeper email. Feminists are not "pro state control over our bodies" and anti right to privacy.


This whole charade is very patriarchial, exactly what the feminists don't support.

[goodboy]

41. cool...thank you for clarifying...I didn't see the thread. (nm)

[mondo joe]

49. But didn't you know? Men - husbands - can't be trusted. Really

it's the most vile grotesque parody of feminism I've ever seen.

[havocmom]

5. Ever hear of 'Mucshausen by Proxy?

Seems like they have a variation on that theme.

They get a lot of attention, get to remain in a state of denial about the actual situation and get to play 'I love her more than you; I am good, you are evil' on a grand stage.

How does that story about Solomon and the two women claiming one child go? The real mother was the one to back away so as not to have the child ripped in two. The false mother, the one who cared more about her own needs and not a whit about the child, was all for the child being torn apart. Strikes a familiar chord, doesn't it?

[goodboy]

10. I like the solomon comparison....It's pretty damning to have admitted

they would not honor their daughters wishes had they been made known to them

[goodboy]

14. Mucshausen by Proxy...where can I read about this?

[havocmom]

22. Here's a start - definition

http://www.mbpexpert.com/definition.html

<snip> MUNCHAUSEN BY PROXY (MBP) (also called Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, Munchausen by Proxy Syndrome, and Factitious Disorder by Proxy) is a label for a pattern of behavior in which caretakers deliberately exaggerate and/or fabricate and/or induce physical and/or psychological-behavioral-mental health problems in others.

<snip> This pattern of behavior constitutes a separate kind of maltreatment (abuse/neglect) that manifests as physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse, neglect, or a combination. The primary purpose of this behavior is to gain some form of internal gratification, such as attention, for the perpetrator.//

You can google it for more references.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Munchausen+by+Proxy&spell=1

That is pretty much the root of Munchausen by Proxy, but in the textbook cases, the ill/injured party is actually made that way by the person seeking attention for their care of the victim.

While I am not saying the parents (mother) have a textbook case, they do seem to get some sort of kick from all the attention and praise they get for 'fighting for and taking care of Terri'. The payoff is so great to them that they would have fought (by their own admission) a living will sort of thing had their daughter executed such an instrument.

Nobody slipped Terri poison to make her sick, but an eating disorder might suggest that there could have been some toxic emotional environment harming her emotionally. Nothing like a smothering parent to teach a young person they will have to go to extraordinary lengths to wrest control of themselves for themselves.

[goodboy]

24. This is what that discredited lying bitch nurse did, isn't it? I mean

to the parents?

[havocmom]

30. Before commenting, I would like to see her bank deposits

and wait to see what sort of job offers she gets in the future.

[goodboy]

33. LOL...I'll bet she works for Rush as his personal pharmacist...*nt*

[TexasSissy]

8. Well, she CAN hear them. She just can't process what they say,

supposedly. She's not deaf.

[goodboy]

11. I understand what you're saying...she can hear, but not process...

[Bouncy Ball]

17. I'm not so sure you are correct on that.

With only 10% of her cerebral cortex left, it's highly unlikely the small area that controls auditory input is still there.

[goodboy]

19. Hmm.,..so the dad is delusional when he said he told terri this was going

to the federal court and she "smiled"

I know this isn't possible...why is he lying?

[Bouncy Ball]

21. That videotape you mean?

Or was this a statement of the dad's?

Once, when my daughter was a newborn, I told her "we're going to the park!" and she smiled. Her eyes were closed and she was only several days old, but she smiled when I said we were going to the park! WHAT A GENIUS BABY!!! CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT!!! A four day old baby understood "we're going to the park" and expressed pleasure over it! /sarcasm off

See what the dad did? Took a coincidental reflexive smile (she also grunts and grimaces involuntarily) and attached significance to it because she HAPPENED to do it right then.

[goodboy]

23. Yes it was a statement the dad made after congress pissed on our

constitution. He said, "I got a smile outta her...swear to god" or something like that...


something stinks like bullshit.

[ultraist]

36. He was lying. I doubt she even had a reflexive reaction

There is no way in hell that Terri could understand that comment of her father's. A newborn could comprehend it better. A newborn begins to recognize voices and responds to "motherese" tones, although they have not developed receptive language skills yet (as Bouncy pointed out).

When I saw him say that it further increased my suspicions of these parents using their daughters body to campaign for Bush and promote a RW agenda. I am really beginning to wonder who is on whose payroll. The father was pissed when he did not get part of Terri's settlement.

I also noticed how controlling the mother was in that videotape and it creeped me out. I think there may be something really wrong with those parents and not just denial and difficulty accepting their daughter's demise. I don't think it's that innocent.

[goodboy]

40. the mother is a nutjob..."save my baby" it's all so melodramatic...

:puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke::puke:

[ultraist]

42. She must be getting paid by the ANTI Choice fundie nuts

Something is going on. That sounds just like an anti-abortion extremist.

I also cringed at Terri's sister's remark, that she hopes the Judge in FL "follows the WILL of Congress." Apparently, she is unaware of seperation of powers, checks and balances and that the job of the court is not to "follow the will" of the Legislative branch, but to follow the LAW.

[goodboy]

43. Good point. Why do these people spend every day proving that they're

complete idiots? I believe them, they don't have to prove it to me anymore.

[TexasSissy]

48. I am sure. There has been no claim at any time that she cannot hear. nt

[hlthe2b]

9. I can't help but wonder if their current "controlling behavior" is not

indicative of why their daughter became bulimic (and thus, suffered the dramatic drop in potassium that triggered her heart attack) to begin with.

Her wishes certainly don't seem paramount to them now; I can't help but wonder if that is not a lifelong pattern. Poor wretched woman.....

[goodboy]

12. which makes the hunger strike the fundies are on all the more ironic.

er...I mean, moranic.

[TahitiNut]

15. They demonstrate the worst of parentalism.

They substitute their will for that of their daughter, irrevocably denying her the respect due an autonomous human being. Her very existence, even in a vegetative state, has the sole purpose of affirming their obscenely misguided 'purpose' in life. The living-dead corpse of their daughter is an obsession with them, affording them an excuse to exercise their self-righteous and self-important role as 'parent' devoid of respect or even of real love.

In a phrase: it's pathological codependency.

[goodboy]

18. 'pathological codependency' well said TahitiNut.

[ultraist]

37. I agree that it's pathological codependency

But I also think they have malicious ulterior motives and those are to be on someone's payroll and/or campaign for Bush and his RW agenda.

I don't think it's only innocent codep issues.

[TahitiNut]

44. Whenever people in codependent relationships have their ...

... codependency challenged, they tend to react with extraordinary venom. It's not just 'malice' from their perspective - it's a defense of their entire raison d'etre. People always have 'good reasons' for harming other people. In these cases, they truly regard it as 'self-defense' ... just like invading Iraq. Delusions.

[ultraist]

45. Yes, for people in that state of mind, any means justifies their end

In this case, I think the end goal may be to promote the RW agenda or to get paid, more than to satiate their unhealthy emotional needs that are connected to their daughter.

Of course, it's impossible to really know what their motives are but if it turns out they do a book or movie deal, or are found out to be on someone's payroll, we can safely assume it was more about the Repuke campaign or the Benjamin's.

The reason I say this is because earlier on, I thought it was a case of guilt ridden, grieving parents who simply could not let go. I really question that now.

[ProfessorGAC]

28. I'll Simplify It, T/N!

They are selfish sociopaths. May not be a psychologically valid term, but an apt description, nonetheless.
The Professor

[goodboy]

29. Sociopaths, it is, Professor...(nt)

[TahitiNut]

31. Well, can't you just hear them say "Who cares what you think?"

They've been very clear on this. It makes no difference to them what their daughter's wishes may have been.

If that doesn't match the Dubya Model of Parenting and Governing, I don't know what does. It's (superficial) Old Testament paternalism - and not even in the same ethical Universe as 'democracy' and 'civil liberties.'

They'd be right at home at Jim Jones' People's Temple.

[goodboy]

32. the schindlers would amputate all her limbs, agree to open heart surgery

(maybe Frist could operate), also they'd keep her on the feeding tube even if she refused artificial nutrition.

[ultraist]

38. You know the joke about some surgeons...

Those that get pleasure from cutting up bodies are one step away from serial murderers. (Much like the idea that cops are very much like criminals, only on the other side of the law). It's a control issue.

Frist seems to fit this category well, considering his cat mutilations. He has a lot of traits of a sociopath.

[goodboy]

39. I think we should ask the professor>...Is frist a sociopath?? HAHA.

[KitchenWitch]

46. I was flipping through the channels last night

Hannity had some doctor on that had actually examined Mrs Schiavo in person and this doctor had come to the conclusion that she was PVS and that nothing more could be done...Hannity would not let the man complete a sentence or answer any of his questions, it made me ill.

Here is one for Hannity and his ilk :nuke:

[goodboy]

47. here's some for the rest of them:

:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke:
:nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke::nuke: