So, now contraception is controversial?

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

Timmy boy (MTP) has said atleast four times this morning, "what about controversial issues such as abortion, BIRTH CONTROL and homosexuality?" in the discussion around the pope's death and his teachings.

ARRGHHH! The door has opened and contraception is officially under MSM attack. Watch it become a RW talking point, lumped in with abortion so that the two words become interchangeable. Contraception = abortion = baby killing.

I, for one, took for granted the easy access to whichever form of contraception I preferred during my child bearing years. Now, my teenage daughter is at risk, not only for the criminalization of abortion but for the restriction and criminalization of contraception.

I know that's been a RW agenda for a while, however, the death of the pope presents a natural forum for combining the two words as the MSM discusses his opposition to both. Just like first semester fetal cells became full blown "babies" in the RW vernacular, now contraception and abortion will become indistinguishable.

I will be talking seriously with my daughter about studying and living abroad. As long as the bfee is in power, she will be at risk of losing her freedom to make her own reproductive choices. MKJ

[ixion]

1. Every sperm is sacred, every sperm is great

if a sperm gets wasted, god gets quite irate.


:evilgrin:


But seriously though, is this a shock? The neocon fundies WILL implement a corporate theocracy. Nothing, at this point, is standing in their way. Expect more garbage like this to float downstream from the CMC.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

2. LOL, thanks for the Monty Python reference....I needed the laugh!

MKJ

[ixion]

4. glad I could give you a laugh...we have to laugh to keep from crying

these days.

[rodeodance]

7. Yes, the Right will capitalize on the Church's teachings relating to these

'social' issues

[POAS]

3. Make masturbation illegal..........

[Al-CIAda]

8. YES! Masterbation should be considered murder! -eom

[POAS]

14. Mass-murder............n/t

[Al-CIAda]

18. Of course, how silly of me, yes, mass murder! -n/t

[Tansy_Gold]

19. But only for men

:evilgrin:

[POAS]

22. Women should be required to have sex once a month to

give every egg a chance.

[Undercover Owl]

63. God created each and every egg!

We women are insulting God to let those precious eggs miss their chance at fulfilling God's image.

Once those eggs have been passed out, they are gone forever. Those eggs will never have another chance at life!

Wake up, women! Don't you realize that each unfertilized egg represents an unconceived baby??

[LeftyMom]

77. They're ahead of you on that one!

http://www.geocities.com/preconceivedbabies/







(It is a joke site, but a good one.)

[POAS]

118. I bookmarked that baby....er......website

Thanks

[TankLV]

123. Bacon and Eggs for Everyone!

I thought they were high in cholesterol?

[rodeodance]

5. contraception has NEVER meant prevention to the "pro-lifers'

It has always meant-as you say:

Contraception = abortion = baby killing.

[realisticphish]

41. let the heathens spill theirs

on the dusty ground...
God will make them pay for
each sperm that can't be found :D

[ananda]

88. sparky sperm & edie egg..

.. wish to announce their union and
the creation of a new..

ZYGOTE!

Hip hip hurray!

(Remember National Lampoon?)


Sue

[Al-CIAda]

6. I'm torn between cynically letting them push this insanity

forward, and outrage at how they are allowed to advance such NONSENSE!

What the FUCK!

[DBoon]

9. Roe v. Wade's precedent were cases re contraception

the legal precedent for Roe v. Wade was certain cases in the 1960's striking down anti-contraception laws. These precedents held that a right to privacy precluded government involvement in private matters such as these.

The anti-women crowd knows what they are doing. They strike down Roe v. Wade, they open the door to bringing back laws that outlawed contraception.

[Hamlette]

32. yes, in 1964 it was illegal for a doctor to talk to his patient about

birth control, the Supreme Court struck down the law in Griswold v Conneticut.

One of the reasons Bork did not make it to the Supreme Court was he opposed all right to privacy cases including Griswold.

It is appalling that the right would do away with the right to privacy. Seems it would come back to bite them in the butt.

Scary but will Americans put up with this? Remember, 82% thought Congress should not get invovled in Shiavo case and 70% supported Clinton during impeachment.

I wonder if timmy is just pulling their chain to suggest abortion and birth control are on the same level. Encouraging the religious right to go to far?

[merh]

10. Let the fundies try to include contraception in their twisted

"pro-life" platforms. This will cause the party to splinter. How many families recognized the need for contraception and do not think it is a "sin" but a necessity. The extreme positions of the fundies and the neo-cons will result in the people pulling away from them.

Let the extreme nutts keep it up and continue to turn off people. Let the splintering begin.

[nonconformist]

61. AGREED

My thoughts exactly!

[Tansy_Gold]

79. But, you, see, it never applies to them

THEY always have good reasons for exempting themselves from the restrictions they place on others.

[merh]

103. But you see, the fundies are not the party

They are just the most vocal and annoying. If they persist in promoting such outlandish policies as anti-birth control and government interference in the private lives of the citizens (Schiavo), those in the party that are not the fundies and the neo-cons will turn on the radicals and turn away from their extreme stances. The party will splinter, there will be infighting the likes of which they haven't seen since the days of Nixon. Let them continue their insanity. I will sit back and watch them implode. :popcorn: :beer: :nuke: :toast: :beer:

[seventythree]

95. exactly!

It is why I though that the women's groups should not have kept the action of the birth control pill quiet for so long -- get the real agenda on the table, and see how fast the women run from the right wing. Geesh, the Pope was against condom use in Africa to prevent aids!!!

[Jade Fox]

11. Appalling, isn't it?

There is a serious attempt going on here to drag women back into the
19th Century or earlier. And, typical of the Neocon media strategy, they
have dug up some woman spouting twisted, feminist-sounding logic
to support their facist attempts control.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1701180&mesg_id=1701180

[seabeyond]

12. we are in theocracy rule

it is sweeping nation in law. we can literally say this now and give examples of it

[GiovanniC]

13. I Hope They Do

I really do.

You can convince a lot of people that abortions are murder and a lot of people will jump on that bandwagon because many of them have never been there. Why have they never been there? Birth control.

[cally]

15. I never expected this

Politicians supporting denying prescribed BC pills? I never thought we would get this bad. Where are the women and men? Why is this accepted as OK?

I haven't gotten quite so far as sending my kids out of the country, but I don't want them to attend college in a 'red state.' I would have encouraged them to learn about this country a few years ago. Now, I want to protect my daughters. Don't live in a state that will forbid BC pills, morning after pills, blame you if you are raped, deny abortions, and not accept you if you are a lesbian. I always planned to leave California and go live somewhere cheaper. Now, I'm planning to stay in a place where my kids can find refuge and safety.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

49. I did talk to my daughter about this....she is focused on enrolling in

NYU, so at least she would be in a blue state. Her response to my concerns is along the lines of,"why should I leave my country? I should stay and fight for the freedom of choice."

She's right, of course. I had just hoped THIS fight would have been won by the time she came of age. The bfee is dragging us backward, to times when oppression was the norm, except for the entitled few.

I think a lot of the posters here are right on...when Mr. or Ms. American citizen is denied access to birth control, due to the White House Taliban's religious positions, the public may finally recognize the value of church/state separation. MKJ

[cally]

55. I hoped we would have won this one

so my daughters could have moved on to other battles. Sometimes I feel like my generation failed them but I do understand that we all have to keep fighting for all of us.

[seabeyond]

16. btw, this is what the catholic religion is giving

us. i think one of the strongest, worded take over, was in michigan? and was spearheaded by catholic.

the catholics want us to respect value and appreciate their religion. i will. so stand up to brothers in michigan, tell them to knock it off, not who you are as a catholic. and when the catholics are done taking responsibility for that, they can come to amarillo and check out the "camp" that is being created by them in amarillo

[cap]

67. there are pro-choice catholics... in fact, most of us...

62% are pro-choice...

95% of us have used contraception at least once.

[seabeyond]

69. so why did so many catholics sit back and allow

there religion to go into michigan law and pass the a pharmacist doesnt have to give perscription to anything they may not believe in

why can i walk into a pharmacy, minding my own business and be rejected denied my right to birth control because of your religions rule, that the majority dont even respect or follow

and why wouldnt i be outraged with catholics, that they feel they can humiliate me at the counter, looking down on me as a sinner, doing wrong, because i want these birth control pills

(i am a old woman, i dont want them, have never used them, dont like them, but i do have the right to them, and catholics are the ones that got this bill passed in michigan)

[prodigal_green]

83. because we didn't hear about it until too late

MSM and all. Trust me, we're on this one.

[seabeyond]

84. i am assuming you are catholic

and i want to say, this is the first reply like this i got. i am talking about all the times i have talked to catholics about their religion. i love religion, all religion, and yes even baptist. i can find the higher in all. but like all religion, there is a lower vibration. i have never gotten such a straight forward answer. one where responsibility is taken, no if and's or buttts. i appreciate

now with that

i too will be there working with you side by side. embracing and valueing and appreciating what you are doing for you religion

thank you prodigal

[cap]

125. i wish i knew why the catholic left is soo dead....

I wish I had a better answer...

I can say I am part of the problem... at my preCana workshop (pre marriage) we all sat like lumps all glum when a nitwit told how she was
risking her life by not not using contraception when a pregnancy would be life threatening.

We sit like lumps in the pews listening to crap.

The Catholic Left is quite dead...I dont know how to revive it...except that most of us are just hanging on.

Here are the Catholics that are fighting this nonsense.
http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/

[ultraist]

70. There was also a big case in WI

Where a Catholic pharmacist refused to fill BC prescriptions; it ended up in court.

And of course, the Gov of Ill had to file an emergency ruling because pharmacists in Chicago and other areas of Ill were refusing to fill BC prescriptions AND throwing away the women's prescriptions (refusing to give them back to the women).

OUTRAGEOUS.

It seems that 4 decades of progress in women's rights is being eroded.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. All these cases now---I wonder if there's some big fundie push to get

birth control restricted. Who put these druggists up to this all at once?

[seabeyond]

90. their ministers, preachers, preist

yes i am sure there is a big push. this is their chance. they have never gotten this deep this far. dont even think they wont go beyond the pale. they are sweeping it nation wide.

i see kansas doing a marriage law. so is texas

they are passing laws saying university has to allow non factual story telling as fact or a professor can be sued

this is serious stuff, getting more serious.

theocracy rule

[Lars39]

91. There are fundy christian pharmacists groups.

They work together with the Christian Medical&Dental Association,
which works with Southern Baptists on missions.
They're organizing and trying to increase their memberships.

[seventythree]

96. The fundies have always been against birth control

-- it's the dirty little secret -- who uses it? who doesn't? it's racial, and that is a fundie agenda item. I've known a number of black female legislators against all things having to do with choice -- same thing, other side.

[tx_dem41]

17. I truly hope that contraception becomes a talking point....

of the RW because it is the most guaranteed loser of an issue out there. Bring it on!

[gollygee]

20. As a woman who loves her IUD, and who loves her daughter

this freaks me out. They can have my IUD when they pry it out of my cold, dead cervix.

And I want my daughter to not have a wide variety of contraceptive choices when she reaches that age.

[beam me up scottie]

62. You need to make a bumper sticker

with those words.
"They can have my IUD when they pry it out of my cold, dead cervix"
That is HYSTERICAL!!!
:yourock:

[Undercover Owl]

66. IUDs are great!

IUDs are underrated. So low-maintenance. I highly recommend them.

...anyway....

[Catt03]

21. Time to get in their face....

and ask some on the right for verification of their contraception methods.

Did Laura and George practice abstinence only? One pregnancy in 24 years....do they have sex?

Does Ann Coulter practice abstinence only?

Does Michelle Milkin practice abstinence only?

Rick Santorum? Bill Frist?

They want to intrude into our personal lives and dictate what we do with our bodies then it's time to ask these hypocrites what their contraceptive method is.

The personal is political.

on edit: I wish someone would find out how many of these control freaks have had abortions.

[amazona]

39. ha ha

Did Laura and George practice abstinence only? One pregnancy in 24 years....do they have sex?



The rumors I've heard I wouldn't be a bit surprised if they only had sex one time with each other. Don't forget Poland!

}(

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Shallah Kali]

68. I also want them to talk about when they chose to be straight

how much of a struggle was it, who did they turn to for advice, how old where they, etc. :evilgrin:

[liberalhistorian]

78. Ann Coulter doesn't need

to worry about any contraception, who the hell would even want to consider having sex with her in the first place?

As for Santorum-I think he and his wife have about five hundred kids; they've both said they don't believe in birth control and will just "let God decide." Well, fine, that's their right, but they do NOT NOT NOT NOT have the right, AT ALL, to decide that for anyone else. Not unless THEY want to carry and raise everyone else's babies!

I'm getting more and more glad by the day that I had a complete hysterectomy a couple of years ago due to endometriosis, ovarian cysts, and fibroids; I don't have to deal with periods or contraception or worry about pregnancy or any of that shit anymore.

[Ilsa]

80. Good question...

If they think they need to be regulating our birth control, then by golly, they better be prepared to say what they are using or not using, practicing or not practicing. If we don't have a right to privacy, then they better make their personal lives an open book.

[fudge stripe cookays]

112. Supposedly Jenna has.

I have a friend who works around Secret Service agents, and they gossip. However, trying to prove it would be a completely different matter entirely.

FSC

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. Maybe it depends on his exact words

You can't deny that the Pope's stance on contraception was controversial. Most people hated it, but he insisted on it staying offical Catholic policy.

The point is that birth control has always been under attack by the Roman Catholic church. Perhaps the discussion was just pointing that out.

[SharonAnn]

24. It hasn't always been under attack. It was the pope in

the mid-late 1800's who codified this as "Church Law". I'll check my references on it later. Before that, there was not a lot said about it as far as "official" church teaching.

I'm assuming it came about for the same reason that there were witchcraft trials in New England in the 1600's and 1700's.

There were these "uppity" women thinking they had a right to make their own decisions and they were threatening the status quo of male dominance. When the males feel entitled to special status, they seem to accept just about anything to demolish competition and protect their status. I know, I know, it's not all men. But it is the men who are into special status and power.

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. Well, OK, I was thinking of modern 20th century methods

I don't know how reliable or widespread condoms made of animal gut were, but apart from that, was there much effective contraception?

[put out]

38. There were diaphragm type things made from natural sponge,

sometimes the sponge was soaked in vinegar, to kill sperm, so the thinking went. But, this was long long ago, Roman and Egypt times, and also used frequently among folks living in an environment which afforded them access to natural sponge. Sort of like the contraceptive sponge taken off the market. What was it called; I used it and liked it. Brings to mind the Seinfeld episode where Elain has a stash of sponges, and gages her desire to have sex with a man by how willing she is to use one of her precious sponges.

And lots of herbal abortifactants, which might make the woman quite ill, but I suppose the woman was going to balance her risks. I hope someone here knows more. It interests me.

That drivel said, I hope to heaven and hell that conservatives start making a fussy stinky messy back-pedaling didn't-mean-that-ing God-wants-you-to-ing proposal to prevent access to reliable birth control. Then just maybe the people, the people who really want to have control over their reproductive lives, who want it for their children and their family and their friends, will wake the fuck up from their dreams, and realize that the folks proposing more government control of reproductive options are actually going to HURT THEM, and HURT PEOPLE they love.

And vote accordingly. One hopes.

Kim

[amazona]

40. there was the sponge which was effective enough

Instead of having 10 or 12 children and most likely dying an early death in childbirth, a woman might have 2 or 3 children. Maybe not ideal if you wanted to be absolutely childless but few women aspired to having zero children in those days. They just didn't want to be worn out with the endless brood mare duty.

As far as I know, the sponge with a vinegar or lemon-juice type rinse goes back to at least medieval times and worked well enough for government work, especially if backed up with an occasional abortion. But a lot of people weren't well educated and many women apparently didn't know about effective birth control until the education efforts of the 1800s and early 1900s. It is hard to imagine but with no mass communications or media, you can see how whole towns and villages might not know.

I read that abortion was not illegal or controversial in the United States in the colonial days and we're talking the 1700s there. It didn't seem to stop some of the FOunding Fathers from taking their role a bit literally however.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[muriel_volestrangler]

75. Thanks - your and "put out"'s replies made me look up the history

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/pp2/portal/files/portal/medicalinfo/birthcontrol/fact-020709-contraception-history.xml

very interesting. As well as the description of sponges and other methods that had some validity, it has this:

During the Middle Ages in Europe, magicians advised women to wear the testicles of a weasel on their thighs or hang its amputated foot from around their necks (Lieberman, 1973). Other amulets of the time were wreaths of herbs, desiccated cat livers or shards of bones from cats (but only the pure black ones), flax lint tied in a cloth and soaked in menstrual blood, or the anus of a hare.

Which might have been effective, but not in a good way - weasel testicles must be quite a turn off ...

[put out]

120. Oh, I forgot all about dried weasel balls tied around my

thighs, made doubly protective when backed up by a hare's anus, and is this hare's anus worn around the neck, or tied to weasel balls around my thighs! Gosh, silly me! I can never remember!

Haven't laughed so hard all day. Thanks.

[alarimer]

25. I've been seeing posters around campus

Texas A&M- Corpus Christi attacking Margaret Sanger and Planned Parenthood. Now I am not sure if what they say is true (it has something to do with eugneics) but the fine print on the posters says it is a "message brought to you by campus Republicans". I tore one off the bulletin board in the women's locker room. But they are other places. I can't remove them without someone seeing me.

[yankeedem]

29. They really don't want to go there about eugenics

Because patron saints of the right the Coors family and Richard Mellon Scaife are big proponents of eugenics.

I always remind wingnuts of this when they bring up Heritage Foundation talking points. (The Heritage Foundation is heavily funded by the Coors and Scaife).

[alarimer]

31. I know

Wasn't there some right-wingers that wanted to pay poor women to be sterilized not too long ago?

[lastliberalintexas]

26. Remember this year- 1965

It was *only* 40 years ago that the Supreme Court ruled against the states' "interest" in procreation and struck down as unconstitutional laws which forbade the selling of contraception to *married* people (Griswold v. Conn.). ONLY 40 YEARS AGO. It took another 7 years for the Court to rule that single people deserved those same rights (Eisenstadt v. Baird).

It really won't be that difficult for them to reverse those decisions, once they get just one more nutcase on the Court.

[tx_dem41]

46. If they reverse those decisions....

the White House and Congress (and eventually the courts) will be in Democratic hands for decades.

[DBoon]

51. Yes, finally a republican decision

that energizes the horny single male voter!

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

73. ROFLMAO. Excellent point, sir!

Edited to add: in all fairness, let's not forget the single, horny women...c'mon, you know you're out there!

MKJ:loveya:

[Catchawave]

27. I left the Catholic church in the 60's

since contraception was (is it still?) a 'mortal' sin which means you're going to HELL. Yet, I couldn't understand why my protestant friends weren't damned like this.

Why are hunters against birth control programs for wildlife? We can certainly control those populations more humanely and alleviate disease and hunger?

[amazona]

42. hunters aren't against birth control for wildlife

I think you would be hard-pressed to find an outdoorsperson who wouldn't love to see effective birth control for the white-tailed deer. They aren't just eating the entire understory of places where they can be safely hunted. They're also eating the 'burbs! The issue is how do you get an IUD into a wild doe?

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Catchawave]

58. Immunocontraception ! No IUD's ya silly...

So if we can control deer herds without shooting them, you would approve ! More info here:

http://www.hsus.org/wildlife/issues_facing_wildlife/immunocontraception/

If you prefer a non-animal protection group sources, there's plenty on a Google search.

Unfortunately, some "sportsmen's" groups have fought the developement of this more humane method in wildlife control. Most of which are heavy supporters of BushCo.

Here ya go:

Deer Birth Control Program Threatens Bowhunting Opportunities in Minnesota- (12/23)
Minnesota
Join our e-mail alert list

A proposal to initiate a deer birth control program is being considered to reduce a growing deer herd in Minnesota. Such programs are on the rise and constitute a real threat to hunting - especially bowhunting.

more....http://www.wlfa.org/interactive/features/Read.cfm?ID=1207

[seabeyond]

28. lets not forget who is running fda

bush allowed for first time for fda department to expire, hired a doctor to ttally staff at his will. the doctors glory to fame is a book he wrote

women with pms
open the bible

[bloom]

30. "controversial issues"

good catch - that is a bad sign when the MSM starts saying crap like that.

[XemaSab]

34. Heaven forfend

people should have sex for fun.

Sex is for making babies.

If you're infertile or have passed menopause, you may as well join a convent.

Getting your tubes tied or your nuts clipped should be a capital offense.

Sex outside marriage is why God punished us on 9/11.

[Kber]

86. You know what? This is a religious freedom issue.

According to Orthodox Jusiasm, married couples should engange in sex at least once a week.

However, if pregnancy is dangerous for the wife, or if the couple is past childbaring years, they should still have sex, but use birth control of some sort (aparently the rabbis of old thought that frequent sex would bring a couple closer, which they considered a good thing. Also, according to the old wisdom, "a child conceived in the MUTUAL joy and pleasure of both parents will be truly blessed".)

My point? Many very traditional jews not only would disagree that sex was for procreative purposes only, but that sexual pleasure for women as well as men is something to be greatly desired (no pun intended).

[XemaSab]

104. But, but...

Jesus threw out the Mosaic laws, right?

So married couples no longer have to have happy sex once a week....

:eyes:

[johnaries]

35. The only reason for having sex is to breed children.

You're not supposed to enjoy it. It's supposed to be a chore.
:wtf:

[sexybomber]

45. We should appeal to people's animal instincts.

Rethug: "You're not supposed to enjoy sex"
Democrat (to masses): "But the fact that we can have sex for pleasure is one of the basic things that makes us human! How can the Republicans deny us our humanity like that?"

Masses: "SCREW THE REPUBLICANS!" (Pun intended)

[johnaries]

48. LOL! But if we screw the Republicans, do we have to enjoy it?

n/t

[TankLV]

124. That's what our catechism in the back of the bible said in church.

I was appalled when I first read it over and over when I was very young and bored.

It is stated flat out - the ONLY purpose for sex is for conceiving children. Nothing else is PERMITTED. End of discussion.

I remember how I kept turning the page over and leafing thru more pages to see if I was seeing things and hoping this was a misprint!

There are some very sick fuckers out there indeed!

[Malva Zebrina]

36. You had better believe it

we have a long way to go before Bush finishes his term. There is a great movement to subjugate women to the will of the state, which is controlled by right winger, well organized, religious institutions and lobbies. Their goal is to eliminate birth control and abortion. It is old men picking upon a weaker target, seeking to grow their penis to a god like size.

There is little resistance from women and that is unfortunate, for apparently, they are willing to be passive, submissive and happy with a second class citizenship, for whatever reasons, much of what I expect is the result of preaching, bible study and the like.

[Ms_Mary]

37. I really don't know WTH is going on with people anymore.

I'm a grown woman. I'm a mother. I've been married for nearly 11 years and the notion that some self-righteous ass at a pharmacy could refuse to fill a RX for birth control pills (if I took them) is totally absurd.

It's not enough that the prohibit and misrepresent sex education at the expense of our nations youth, but now they want to fuck around with people's ability to prevent unwanted pregnancies in the first place? It's unbelievable.

[amazona]

44. also birth control pills have other -- important -- functions

I can prevent birth by other means but I am prescribed birth control pills to treat a specific medical condition. And it isn't a rare one.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Ms_Mary]

47. Very true, didn't mean to gloss over that. nt

[aWaKeNoW]

50. Exactly. I have two close friends

who are in their childbearing years, and have had severe problems with ovarian cysts. They have been taking birth control as prescribed by their doctors to help in the prevention of cysts. Imagine if they didn't have the opportunity to take birth control pills to try to "prevent" ovarian cancer that could develop in their bodies because birth control pills are illegal and no longer allowed in the US...culture of life MY ASS!

[amazona]

54. I don't have to imagine too hard

Without the pills to control the growth of the cysts, the only option left to many would be removal of the ovaries -- major surgery. :-( Surgical menopause means that the woman can never again have a child and that she does have an increased risk of osteoporosis over women who can go through natural menopause. Those little pills can make a big difference to quality of life.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[fudge stripe cookays]

117. I feel for your friends!

See my post #113.

FSC :hi:

[fudge stripe cookays]

113. You're right.

I just found this out the other day up close and personal.

I had emergency surgery two weeks ago where my undetected endometriosis caused a huge cyst on my ovary that ruptured and bled out into my abdomen. My doctor is putting me back on the pill to shut down my remaining ovary and regulate my estrogen, so I don't have to go through the same horrific pain and scary situation again.

I swear to God-- if I have problems with a @#$%ing pharmacist, he'll wish he'd never been born. I'll be his worst nightmare. I'll rake him, and his pharmacy and everyone else involved over every legal coal I can find.

My husband has been snipped. It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with birth control. This is to save my life.

Fuckers.
FSC

[Still_Loves_John]

43. Controversial within the Catholic church

They're talking about the Pope, after all.

[GreenArrow]

52. The Pill

Loretta Lynn "The Pill" lyrics from back in the days when country music was still good.

You wined me and dined me
When I was your girl
Promised if I'd be your wife
You'd show me the world
But all I've seen of this old world
Is a bed and a doctor bill
I'm tearin' down your brooder house
'Cause now I've got the pill

All these years I've stayed at home
While you had all your fun
And every year thats gone by
Another babys come
There's a gonna be some changes made
Right here on nursery hill
You've set this chicken your last time
'Cause now I've got the pill

This old maternity dress I've got
Is goin' in the garbage
The clothes I'm wearin' from now on
Won't take up so much yardage

Miniskirts, hot pants and a few little fancy frills
Yeah I'm makin' up for all those years
Since I've got the pill

I'm tired of all your crowin'
How you and your hens play
While holdin' a couple in my arms
Another's on the way
This chicken's done tore up her nest
And I'm ready to make a deal
And ya can't afford to turn it down
'Cause you know I've got the pill

This incubator is overused
Because you've kept it filled
The feelin' good comes easy now
Since I've got the pill

It's gettin' dark it's roostin' time
Tonight's too good to be real
Oh but daddy don't you worry none
'Cause mama's got the pill

Oh daddy don't you worry none
'Cause mama's got the pill

[GreenPoet64]

53. Lets implant all males with a "jerking off" detection device.

And put "sinners" who engage in acts of "self love" in prison for wasting sperm. Fair is fair. :sarcasm:

[Undercover Owl]

76. call it what it IS

"self love" you say? It's self abuse!
;-)

[Pushed To The Left]

56. Any right-winger who opposes birth control

and says that he or she opposes abortion is PHONY on the abortion issue! They don't care about a "culture or life" at all. More like a culture of control.

[Dave Sund]

57. Birth Control IS controversial in the Catholic Church

They were talking about this within the context of the Church. And one of the most oft-cited criticisms of Pope John Paul II is his position on birth control, which is controversial with many Catholics.

[seabeyond]

59. damn good thing i am not catholic, oh wait a minute, they want

me to follow catholic rule even if i am not a catholic.

what a bitch

[Dave Sund]

60. His position would be controversial with you

Because he believed birth control was immoral. It's controversial with me, because I vehemently disagree with it, and I believe it's causing great harm in third world countries.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

71. Yes, that was the context, but the idea of birth control as unacceptable

is creeping out there to the MSM. What really struck me was the manner in which Russert combined contraception and abortion several times over the course of the interview.

Sadly,I'm afraid the context will be lost over the next few weeks, but the framing will remain (the pope didn't like abortion or birth control will then evolve to birth control and abortion are indistinguishable and both will bear the "baby killing" label)

I am convinced that the anti RW folks are so diverse in so many ways, they're a tough group to organize into lockstep messages. I think getting Dems, Libertarians, Greens, Environmentalists, Civil Rights Activists, et. al. to come together for a common theme is like herding cats. However, on this issue, we need to have a consistent, resonating message to the people....keep birth control available and affordable. MKJ

[porphyrian]

64. Only amongst a regressive minority.

They just have the money to make it seem like it's still an issue.

[enki23]

65. it is in the catholic church, obviously.

and increasingly so here in the good ole' usa

[Shallah Kali]

72. Petition to drug stores to keep selling birth control

http://prochoiceaction.org/campaign/pharmacy_petition

Tell pharmacy chains to stop discriminating against women!

In as many as 20 states, pharmacies can refuse to fill women’s prescriptions for contraception, including the morning-after pill.

When a woman and her doctor decide that a prescription for contraception is in the woman's best interest, a third party has no right to override that decision. Pharmacies must ensure that patients get their doctor-prescribed medication without delay or inconvenience.

Join NARAL Pro-Choice America in telling our nation’s biggest pharmacies (Wal-Mart, CVS, Rite Aid, Walgreen's, and Eckerd's) not to stand between a woman and her physician. Simply complete the information at right to send your letter. Please personalize your letter with a story or experience.

[seabeyond]

74. next visit to catholic gyno, and ask at neighborhood

pharmacy if there are any catholics. and if they are opposed to prescribing certain things because of their beliefs. and if their is a yes, then a talk with the manager of the store that i will not be spending a couple hundred a week there for my groceries.

i say call the catholics out on this

[Erika]

81. 14th Century Law forbade masturbation by males

It was a crime subject to capital punishment for murder of possible human life.

Looks like that's the direction we're headed.

[JoMama49]

82. maybe menstruation could become illegal - after all -

it's fetus food!
jomama.

[Colorado Blue]

94. Damn. I wish it had become illegal back when I actually

did it:)

[prodigal_green]

85. they want to ban intentionally childless marriages

http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?adate=10/13/2003

<snip>
Christians must recognize that this rebellion against parenthood represents nothing less than an absolute revolt against God's design. The Scripture points to barrenness as a great curse and children as a divine gift. The Psalmist declared: "Behold, children are a gift of the Lord, the fruit of the womb is a reward. Like arrows in the hand of a warrior, so are the children of one's youth. How blessed is the man whose quiver is full of them; they will not be ashamed when they speak with their enemies in the gate."

Morally speaking, the epidemic in this regard has nothing to do with those married couples who desire children but are for any reason unable to have them, but in those who are fully capable of having children but reject this intrusion in their lifestyle.

<snip>
The church should insist that the biblical formula calls for adulthood to mean marriage and marriage to mean children. This reminds us of our responsibility to raise boys to be husbands and fathers and girls to be wives and mothers. God's glory is seen in this, for the family is a critical arena where the glory of God is either displayed or denied. It is just as simple as that.

The church must help this society regain its sanity on the gift of children. Willful barrenness and chosen childlessness must be named as moral rebellion. To demand that marriage means sex--but not children--is to defraud the creator of His joy and pleasure in seeing the saints raising His children. That is just the way it is. No kidding.

[Undercover Owl]

87. is that a parody? It can't be serious.

That's the biggest load of crap I've ever read! :hurts:
The person who wrote that needs to be locked up in a psychiatric ward.

[NYC]

92. I read it a long time back.

It is not a parody. They are serious.

[Undercover Owl]

97. !!!!

I just now read the whole article.
Right now, I'm thanking the good Lord that I wasn't born into one of these twisted families!!

That guy needs psychiatric help.

[NYC]

100. Yes, sometimes we don't realize how lucky we have been.

We could have been born into such a cult. Terrible thought, isn't it? There are many truly twisted people in the world.

[seventythree]

98. they are calling out all of their priests and nuns, then.

they don't have children -- or aren't supposed to. This is what I thought about when John Paul said the highest calling of womanhood was child bearing/mothering. Kind of put down his nuns, I thought. Where was the statment that the highest calling of men were to be fathers -- oops, that would exclude the Pope, huh? Or maybe not, since he is called "father." Yep, they find a way out for themselves. Having just finished The D'Vinci Code, this thread is just very serendipitous. Although there was nothing that I didn't already know about in that book -- just a good mystery story -- the recent tizzy by the church over it is very telling,imo. Backlash coming down the road as the people begin to question.

[NYC]

99. I thought it was a good mystery,

but I didn't like the end.

[seventythree]

107. the end was kind of hopeful, though.

[NYC]

116. I didn't like "who did it".

That was the part I didn't like. The "culprit" hadn't been much of a character in the book, and it was too weird that he worked where he did. Anyway, the mystery leading up to that was excellent.

[Undercover Owl]

101. WoW!

That was a great post!
As a non-Catholic, I never thought of that, but yes it makes sense. Very thought provoking.
:wow:

[seventythree]

108. thanks

[prodigal_green]

105. This group is not Catholic

As far as I know, Catholics are the only Christian group that advocate celibacy amongst its clergy.

And yes, they probably do hate priests and nuns.

[fudge stripe cookays]

114. Reminds me of one of Lizz

Winstead's lines I heard her say in one of her routines years ago. She was talking about how sexist Catholicism is, and mentioned, "well what's the highest rank a woman can have in the Catholic church?"

"None. Exactly!"

FSC

[Ellen Forradalom]

102. This man has no other religion

than to put as many second-rate copies of homo sapiens on the face of the earth as possible. 'Be fruitful and multiply' is full extent of it. Moron.

[CrispyQ]

106. 6 billion miracles is enough.

We are going to populate ourselves out of existence.

[PassingFair]

110. According to a book on "Catholic Marriage" I once perused...

my husband and I are guilty of "culpable pollution" in our sex life.
Now THAT'S sexy!

[Al-CIAda]

93. ***THE CHRISTIAN DOMINIONISTAS***

b]The Despoiling of America: How George W. Bush became the head of the new American Dominionist Church/State
http://www.yuricareport.com/Dominionism/TheDespoilingOfAmerica.htm
and
http://www.yuricareport.com/contents.html

============

"Constitution Restoration Act of 2004"
If enacted, the Constitution Restoration Act will effectively transform the United States into a theocracy, where the arbitrary dictates of a "higher power" can override law.
By Chris Floyd
Published: March 12, 2004

"The "Constitution Restoration Act of 2004" is no joke; it was introduced last month by some of the Bush Regime's most powerful Congressional sycophants. If enacted, it will effectively transform the American republic into a theocracy, where the arbitrary dictates of a "higher power" -- as interpreted by a judge, policeman, bureaucrat or president -- can override the rule of law."

>

According to Dominionist literature, "biblical rule" means execution -- preferably by stoning -- of homosexuals and other "revelers in licentiousness"; massive tax cuts for the rich (because "wealth is a mark of God's favor"); the elimination of government programs to alleviate poverty and sickness (because these depend on "confiscation of wealth"); and enslavement for debtors. No legal challenges to "God's order" will be allowed. And because this order is divinely ordained, the "elect" can use any means necessary to establish it, including deception, subversion, even violence. As Robertson himself adjures the faithful: "Zealous men force their way in."
The Dominionist movement was founded by the late R.J. Rushdoony, a busy beaver who also co-founded the Council for National Policy. The CNP is the politburo of the American conservative movement, filled with top-rank political and business leaders who set the national agenda for the vast echo chamber of right-wing foundations, publishers, media networks and universities that have schooled a whole generation in obscurantist bile -- just as the extremist Wahabbi religious schools funded by Saudi billionaires have poisoned the Islamic world with hatred and ignorance.
One of the chief moneybags behind the rise of Dominionism was tycoon Harold Ahmanson, Rushdoony's protege and fellow CNP member. In addition to establishing theocracy in America, Ahmanson has another abiding interest: computerized voting machines. As reported here last year, Ahmanson, a fervent Bush backer, was instrumental in establishing two of the Republican-controlled companies now rushing to install their highly hackable machines -- with untraceable, unrecountable electronic ballots -- across the country in time for the November election.
The Dominionists also have strong backing on the Supreme Court, Yurica notes. Justice Antonin Scalia, author of the unconstitutional ruling that gave Bush the presidency, declared in the theological journal First Things that the state derives its moral authority from God, not the "consent of the governed," as that old licentious reveler Thomas Jefferson held in the Declaration of Independence. No, government "is the 'minister of God' with powers to 'revenge,' to 'execute wrath,' including even wrath by the sword," Scalia wrote. He railed against the "tendency of democracy to obscure the divine authority behind government."

Con't-
http://context.themoscowtimes.com/index.php?aid=131199

=========

'THE CHRISTIAN DOMINIONISTAS JUST DON'T GET IT'
By Karl W. B. Schwarz
A Conservative Christian Republican
December 8, 2004
I have decided that our American lexicon needs a new word - Dominionistas, noun, plural, definition - groups whose religious beliefs obstruct critical thinking on matters of fairness, equity, Christ-like qualities, confusion between goodness and sin; cultists; persons of Neocon beliefs, fascists, persons of narrow mindedness.
The commentary today is yet another open letter to Christian Dominionistas who need to step away from the Kool-aid and have a long talk with God and Jesus Christ about what Christianity is, and more importantly - what Christianity is not. They might as well call themselves Zionist Christians, for some erroneously do and do not "get it" when myself or anyone else explains to them that Zionist Christians is in fact an oxymoron, or two words that have no business being used together. Sort of like "jumbo shrimp", or "military intelligence", or "Bush Compassionate Conservatism" being just three operative examples of what to look for when seeking an example of an oxymoron.
Most Christians do not "get it" when it is explained that there is a massive movement in Judaism, simply named Jews Against Zionism, fighting to rid their religion of Zionist. Many Christians just do not get it that the term Zionist can be pushed to such an extreme that it is a substitute word for fascist. It has happened in Judaism and it is happening in Christianity and neither are "religious based movements". They are based on evil, greed, power, domination; all things that are quite Un-Christ-like. They are "cults" in their sheerest definition<1> and are not God and Christ centered, they are people, power and greed centered. They call wrong right and right wrong. "This article provides more information that demonstrates that far from being the saviors of the Jewish People, the Zionists are the true self-hating Jews who have had nothing but contempt and outright hatred for the Jewish People and Judaism.<2> This article proves that anti-Semitism has been the oxygen and lifeblood of the Zionists throughout the ages to the present day.
"By contrast, we anti-Zionist Jews having been doing all we can to reduce hatred of Jews by proclaiming the true nature of the Jewish religion in contrast to the heresy and idolatry of Zionism.<3> We hope this will help Jews awaken from the brainwashing of the Zionists."
I know many Christians that need to start weaning themselves from the brainwashing of the Dominionistas and the Republican Neocon Fascists that have taken control of the RNC. Christianity is not about power, greed, entitlement, world conquest, Empire building, or looking the other way on the evil that is going on inside of our government ñ in our name - and wrapping that up in the flag and pretending that evil and wrong conduct is Christianity.

CON'T-
http://www.rbnlive.com/christlink.html

========

Only the Paranoid Survive
"I've seen the future, baby, and it's murder."
Ahmanson, counter of America's votes, has admitted "My purpose is total integration of biblical law into our lives." Now, and in light of mounting and massive evidence of anomalies favouring the Republican ticket, which is more incredible: that fundamentalists would allow unaudited virtual ballots to be hacked in order to further the establishment of God's law upon American lives, or that George Bush won 51% of the vote? (Coincidentally, the 51/48 split was the margin Dick Cheney forecast a week before the election.)
Eva Sion on the Christian reconstructionists and their faith-based electronic voting machines:
Theonomic Reconstructionism is a belief that the only true authority is God's, that allegiance to biblical laws trumps that of civic law and that the Kingdom of Heaven needs to be built on Earth before Jesus will come again. In addition to that, homosexuals should be put to death, women should be banned from civic office, apostates and heretics should be stoned to death and there is a great need for more Christian politicians.
Not content to philosophize about such things, the TR movement sprang into action. Funded by billionaires such as Howard Ahmanson and the Coors and Hunt families, Reconstructionists formed think tanks such as the Chalcedon Institute and the Rutherford Institute (the friendly guys that funded Paula Jones' lawsuit against Clinton) to give the Christian Right a philosophical base to draw from, and political action committees to finance their elections.
...
Ahmanson inherited his money from his father, owner of Home Savings & Loan (during the S&L scandal of the Reagan years, Home's investors, mostly small family investments, lost over $150 million dollars. No one went to jail). In addition to funding PACs and think tanks, Howard Jr. parlayed his fortune into the majority stock of a business called American Information Systems (AIS) started by two enterprising brothers, Todd and Bob Urosevich. AIS later merged with Business Records Corporation (BRC) and became Election Systems & Solutions (ES&S). ES&S is the number one provider of touch-screen voting machines. Their website claims that their products were used in collecting 56% of the national vote in the last presidential elections.
Todd Urosevich is now Vice President of ES&S. Strangely enough, brother Bob moved on to head the second largest computerized vote-counting business, Global Election Systems, recently purchased by ATM and security giant Diebold. (They now have both the Ohio and Georgia contracts.) In a round table swap of incestuous patronage the previous executives of Global moved on to head the third largest vote-counting company in the nation, Advanced Voting Systems. Combined, these three corporations will process nearly 80% of the next nationwide elections.
So wake up, America, to your perfect Straussian nightmare: abroad, the neoconservatives are pursuing their imperial energy strategy, while at home Christo-fascists dope the populace on crusader morality and levitical law. If you still can't see the lights going out, it's because your eyes have adjusted to the dark.

Con't-
http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/11/only-paranoid-survive.html

=======
Voting Fraud in the USA:  A Tale of Two Brothers
You've heard of the song The Day the Music Died? Well, today is the Day Democracy Died. Actually, that day probably came about 4 years ago, the first time Bush stole the election. Or even earlier, as I will reveal....
Once upon a time there were two brothers: Bob and Todd Urosevich. In the 1980's, with the financial backing of the right-wing extremist Christian billionaire Howard Ahmanson (also a major player behind the whole anti-evolution movement), Bob and Todd founded a company called American Information Systems (AIS) that built voting machines. They were also certified to count votes.
It is interesting to note that back then there was no federal agency with regulatory authority or oversight of the U.S. voting machine industry. Even more interesting is the fact that this is still true today. Not even the Federal Election Commission (FEC) has a complete list of all the companies that count votes in U.S. elections.
But let us get back to our story....
In 1992 a conservative Nebraskan fellow called Chuck Hagel became chairman of AIS as well as chairman of the McCarthy Group, a private investment bank. This all happened shortly after he stopped working for Bush Sr.'s administration as Head of the Private Sector Council.
In 1995 Hagel resigned from AIS and a year later ran for Senate, with the founder of the McCarthy Group as his campaign manager.
In 1996 Chuck Hagel became the first Republican to ever win a Nebraska senatorial campaign in 24 years, carrying virtually every demographic group, including African American precincts that had never voted Republican. The only company certified to count votes in Nebraska at the time was AIS.

continued-
http://nightweed.com/VoterFraudATaleofTwoBrothers.html

==========

"The Rise of Dominionism"
recorded October, 2004, 44 minutes
Download audio and video documenting the Rise of Dominionism (no charge, no copyright)
http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm

Cornell University's Joan Bokaer explains Dominionism and Reconstructionism and their hijacking of American government.

TheocracyWatch is a project of the Center for Religion, Ethics and Social Policy (CRESP) at Cornell University. CRESP is a nonsectarian, action-based educational organization with its roots in religious dialogue, human rights advocacy, and ethical thought.

http://www.theocracywatch.org/audio-video.htm


Inform Yourself -- Spread the Word

The rise of the Religious Right in the Republican Party is one of the most important stories in modern American political history, yet it is so little understood. You can help educate yourself and others by speaking in public on this important issue.

We've made it easy for you. Joan Bokaer has put her entire presentation, including the script and PowerPoint slide and text show, on a CD for you to use; you need only supply the laptop computer and a projector, and you can be a public speaker. (PowerPoint Player is included.)

Educational materials provided by TheocracyWatch will give you an opportunity to understand the role the Religious Right is playing in shaping our world. The CDs, DVDs, and audiocassette provide a distillation of the vast amount of material covered in the TheocracyWatch website.

[Bridget Burke]

109. Contraception IS controversial in the Catholic Church

That's what they're discussing now--you know, the Pope of Rome & all that....

Quite a few Catholics use it anyway.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

111. I've seen people here in DU try to defend those nutcase pharmacists

who deny BC pills to women. In a very slithery, "no, I'm not defending them but blah blah sophism blah straw man blah circular reasoning blah blah" kind of fashion. But you can see the ugly truth behind all the hemming and hawing.

[jonnyblitz]

115. yup. THAT has been duly noted.

trust me.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

119. The dispensing of medications is a profession that demands a

non-judgmental approach.

Should pharmacists deny Viagra to a single man? After all, sex outside of marriage is a sin, as defined by the church.

Should they deny acyclovir to single men or women who have an active case of genital herpes? Again, since sex outside of marriage is a sin, why provide treatment and relief to sinners?

The invocation of biblical imperatives, for these pharmacists, appears to be selective and intended to have the most adverse impact on women of child bearing age only. Or least those who want to practice family planning.

Excellent deconstruction of the argument, Commie Pinko Dirtbag. MKJ

[Liberty Belle]

121. The Catholic church has always banned contraception.

This is nothing new.

What's new is churches of various denominations applying political pressure to restrict access to contraceptions.

[TankLV]

122. Make no mistake! The anti-abortion idiots have always been for banning

contraception too - they are just hiding it - for now - until they feel the time is "right".

They want to outlaw abortion AND contraception.

That has ALWAYS been their goal.

The mere thought of anyone ENJOYING recretional sex for the pure JOY it brings is the most horrid thought to these sickos!

Sex Bad! Sex Dangerous! Sex Evil!

There are some sick motherfuckers - and many are unsuccessfully disguized on this very board!