One Thing The Vatican Could Do To Impress ME- Elect A Black Pope!

[DistressedAmerican]

Obligatory Disclaimer: I am an atheist and the Catholic church has no interest in my opinion. Nor should they. Nor for that matter am I black. However...


I've heard a lot about the possible choices to replace JP2. Many have suggested that a Latin American Pope is likely. That sounds good to me. It helps do away with the image of the church as a white dominated institution, a very positive move I'd think to many Catholics around the world.

However, I would like to see a pope from Africa. I would suggest someone like Archbishop Desmond Tutu. It meets the previously mentioned goal of broadening the church's appeal. In addition, I feel that a pope from Africa, a continent that has been so hard hit by AIDS, may be more prone to allow condoms.

I know this a bit of a single issue thing. There are other issues I have with the church as well. However, this is one an URGENT, LIFE AND DEATH issue. I feel that the last Pope's stance on the issue was not in keeping with his general respect for life and working against suffering. As I see it this was JP2's biggest failing as a leader in these modern times.


What do you think the chances are of such a maneuver from Vatican? Has anyone heard reporting on any such possibility floating around?

On Edit: Another Possible Benefit, may make the changes of electing a black president more likely?
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[DulceDecorum]

1. Ummm

some of the Popes have not been exactly, how can I put this?
Not exactly kosher.
And so far the peoples of Africa and Asia and the Americas can disclaim any responsibility so far for the antics of the Vatican.
Why ruin a good thing?

[Warpy]

27. Not only that, but the foremost candidate

is a wacko from Nigeria who wanted to excommunicate any Catholic who voted Democratic along with any politician who represented the party.

I already know the church is going to harden its line against women. I'm not quite sure they want to harden it this far, though. They'd lose a lot of members and then who would support the lavish lifestyles of the Princes of the Church?

[johnfunk]

28. Dave Chapelle for Pope!

... if only to hear him say "In the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit, I'm Pope D-Dog the First, bitch!"

[mtnsnake]

2. Michael Jackson for Pope!

I hereby nominate him.

Last week I saw MJ on the news saying how he's been praying a lot.

[JohnKleeb]

3. Is Tutu Catholic?

There actually is an African candiate who has a good shot, now I must warn you he is conservative on doctrine but he is great when it comes to dealing with different religions, his name is Francis Adrinine or something like that. Also, there has been an African pope before, and the main candidates for the papacy that Ive read about come from four continents. An Eithopian would also be good because Africa is the place where the church is growing the fastest.

[porphyrian]

6. Exactly what I was thinking.

Tutu would be an excellent choice. Watch who they put in instead.

[JohnKleeb]

11. Tutu isnt Catholic though it seems but Cardinal Arinze is

He actually has a good shot.

[porphyrian]

19. Where does Arinze come down on the issues?

Is he more or less conservative than JPII?

[JohnKleeb]

20. havent read much but he is a doctrine conservative it seems

Shame I know but he seems to be good on foreign issues and to me it would make sense to have an african pope since it is the fastest place where catholicism is growing right now. As far as actual issues though, I would want Daneels from Belgium who actually has supported condom use, etc, doubtful hes pro choice or pro gay but it would be a start.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Tutu is Episcopalean, I believe

but there are black African Catholic bishops. Any cardinals? Don't know.

[Minstrel Boy]

4. Tutu is Anglican n/t

[Clark2008]

5. I am Catholic and from what I am hearing

Cardinal Francis Arinze is DEFINITELY on the short list.
Of course, I'm not in Rome. I'm not a priest, a nun, an Arch-Diocese, a Bishop, an Arch-Bishop or a Cardinal, but in all my research and in talking with other Catholics, he's on it.

[Dookus]

8. Be careful what you wish for

the most likely African candidate would be like having a Pope Alan Keyes. Francis Arinze of Nigeria is extremely conservative.

[JVS]

14. Yep, remember that the condemnation of the Episcopalians' tolerance of...

homosexuals was spearheaded by African bishops, who by and large tend to be conservative. It could be a Nixon goes to China type of situation: only by choosing a pope who's very election would be unprecedented could the reforms of the last 40 years be rolled back.

[candy]

9. An Asian or Hispanic wouldn't impress you? Why?

Central and South America have huge Catholic populations and they have never been represented.

I'm rooting for the Archbishop of Sao Paolo.

[DURHAM D]

15. I agree eom

[DistressedAmerican]

16. I have no problem with either! Both would be great options.

I just think the AIDS thing is pretty BIG.

That was my point. Diversity PLUS better perspective on the AIDS epidemic.

[Zynx]

38. I'm also rooting for Cardinal Claudio Hummes(archbishop of Sao Paulo)

He was a guy who stood up to the Brazilian military regime and seems interested in social justice.

[liberalpragmatist]

10. Desmond Tutu is Anglican; However, there is one oft-mentioned possibility

The most-mentioned candidate is Francis Arinze. He was born Animist, converted at a young age.

He has very progressive views on issues like salvation for non-Christians and poverty. He has good relations with the Islamic world and has championed third-world debt relief and criticized Capitalism.

On the downside are his very reactionary social views. He has denounced gay marriage and homosexuality and his views on women in the church is also very conservative.

This Guardian profile highlights some of the positives:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/pope/story/0,12272,1055080,00.html

Francis Arinze is tipped by some to succeed John Paul II and become the first African in 1,500 years to sit on the throne of St Peter.

If he does, the world will devour every detail about this stocky Nigerian - that he spent his early years in the countryside outside the Catholic faith; that he loves tennis and football; that he hangs African masks on his apartment walls; that he thinks Muslims, Buddhists and Jews can go to heaven; and that he stopped taking sugar in his tea during the Biafran war.

For many, the most compelling detail would be his race: a black man with more international influence than many white prime ministers and presidents. As pope he would wield a unique blend of spiritual and political power, able to mobilise the opinions of up to a billion Catholics and sway the policies of nation states.

On the downside...

http://www.slate.com/id/2089815/

Ah, but what an exquisite dilemma for liberals. A black pope who, on social issues, makes Phyllis Schlafly seem like Jane Fonda. In a commencement address this year at Georgetown University, Arinze drew protests by saying the institution of marriage is "mocked by homosexuality." If he did become pope and liberals criticized his antigay, anti-abortion views, could conservatives possibly resist the temptation to charge racism? Might be too much to ask.

[JohnKleeb]

13. Yeah I am not too fond of his culutral views

Its kind of a downer since he is good on those issues you say.

[DistressedAmerican]

29. Great post! Thanks for the info.

Sounds like the issues I had with the last guy (which are really my issues with institution) will remain if this is the guy. Some I like and some I hate...

I like the liberalization of a "Catholics Only" policy at the pearly gates. Out of curiosity, does he believe that us Atheists can get in to the big sky-box or do we burn?

My friends that believe always point out that if they are wrong, no harm/no foul. Where I will pay big time for my impertinence. It would be nice ho have a pope that was open to my getting in just in case I am totally off base.

[Jack Rabbit]

12. Meet Francis Cardinal Arinze

The Nigerian-born Cardinal Arinze is condsidered one of the leading candidates to succeed Pope John Paul.

Photo from St. Thomas Aquinas College, Santa Paula, California

[BlueStateGirl]

17. There have been three black Popes. Of course ,the last one

was over 1,000 years ago.

[mtnsnake]

18. Having a black pope would be nice, but wouldn't guarantee a thing

What if we get a black pope and he's just as conservative as JP was? That could set us back even further. As it is, we're already starting to lose some of our black support to the chimp.

I'm all for getting a black or latino pope in there, as long as he's more liberal minded than the last pope was.

When it comes to the pope's replacement, liberal is way more important than color.

[DistressedAmerican]

26. Completely agree. Didn't mean to imply that.

Liberalization (in my opinion) is far more important than where they come from.

Just testing the theory that an African may be better on AIDS related issues.

Many of the posts up until know have me wondering if that assumption is in any way valid.

[flordehinojos]

21. I do not know if Cardinal Jaime Ortega is on the list of electable

Cardinals who will meet at the conclave. He has been the head of the Catholic church in Cuba under Fidel Castro's communism. He seems to be a man who is extremely aware of pain as that pain is caused by repression, lack of freedom and economic need. I humbly believe that his connection to that pain and what seems to be a certain humility which accompanies him would be a great package to succeed the enormous vacuum left by the death of JOHN PAUL II. He is also a young Cardinal...and, I do admit, I do not know what his position is on gays, the ordination of women to the church, and other matters of faith as held by POPE JOHN PAUL II with which many Catholics disagreed.

[DistressedAmerican]

30. That is an interesting choice. Maybe he could help JP on the destruction

of "Godless Communism". I'd reather they get credit than Reagan!

[Rowdyboy]

22. George Bush Sr gave us Clarence Thomas, black supreme court

justice who I hold beneath contempt, regardless of his race. Now Republicans can claim Justice Thomas speaks for American blacks. The color of the new pope's skin is totally irrelevent to me. I care what is in his heart. If he's a black man who's just as rigidly doctrinaire and conservative as John Paul II, I'd prefer someone else.

on edit: You're correct, Bishop Tutu is indeed Anglican and not Catholic.

[DistressedAmerican]

23. Wow That Was Fast. Just Stepped Away To Stir Some Chili...

I was wondering if Tutu was possibly Anglican. Pardon my ignorance. It had crossed my mind but, a friend told me she thought he was one of hers. As she is Catholic, I trusted her knowledge over my own. I love DU fastest fact checkers around.

These are some informative posts. Give me a minute to read and maybe eat the aforementioned Chili and I'll dig through it all. Feel free to discuss amongst yourselves (like you need my permission).

[Dutch]

24. I tend to agree.

When John Paul II was elected, it was exactly the right time to elect an eastern European Pope (not that I'm at all saying that is the only reason he was worthy of election), and the late Pope was indeed able to play a noble role in the cataclysmic changes that part of the world saw during his ponitificate. Now, with the tragedies of both Aids and social injustice rampant in Africa, and the continents Catholic population growing, the time is ripe for an African Pope to take the helm. But it has to be the right man. Is that Arinze? I'm not qualified to say.

Of course, I think there's also a very strong argument for a Latin American Pope- this region is now arguably Catholicisms global heartland, after all, and could do with a prominent champion of social justice on the world stage- I like what I've heard about the Honduran Cardinal being touted (I apologise for not being able to remember his name off the top of my head).

[eallen]

25. You're easy. To impress me, they'd have to elect a WOMAN pope.

:bounce:

[DistressedAmerican]

31. I'd Love To See That. Just not any rumors floating on that one!

O8)

[MrsMatt]

37. Pope Joan

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08407a.htm

Fact or fiction?

[hlthe2b]

32. No, electing a FEMALE Pope would be far more impressive IMO

Not gonna happen, but that would make the biggest impact, given that there have been black Popes before (however long ago)

[DistressedAmerican]

36. 1.500 Years Ago In Fact!

I think the time has passed where we can really even say with a straight face that the church has had black popes before.

Although, Female pope? YES!

Why stop there. Let's hold out for a black female!

[hlthe2b]

40. fine by me.... Is it Popess Oprah?

LOL

[MrSlayer]

33. I've been actively promoting Cardinal Arinze for years now.

Simply because I know how much it will bother people around here.

[DistressedAmerican]

34. Kick.

[DistressedAmerican]

35. Monday Kicking!

Hello Office Workers:hi: !

Do not to forgot to work from the inside toward bleeding your capatalist masters dry:spank: !

Your hours are their money:shrug:!

[LibertyLover]

39. African pope

While Tutu cannot become pope - he is not a Catholic archbishop - I understand there is at least one African who is considered "popeable". Honest, that's the term. However, it is a mixed blessing as I also understand that he is very conservative. Actually that's one of the reasons some are saying the conclave will elect an African, Asian or possibly a South American as the next pope because many of those eligible from those geographic locales are at least as conservative as John Paul II, if not more so. Europeans and Italians in particular are thought to be too liberal. An American is probably out for the same reasons, although most, if not all, of our cardinals are pretty darn conservative. My personal prediction (based on nothing more than guesswork) is that someone from Europe, but almost at the cutoff age, will be elected as a "caretaker pope". He won't last too long, will not, like John XXIII, call a "Vatican III", and there will be another conclave in less than three years that will elect a conservative pope from Africa or Asia. Basically same old same old but with a non-European face.

[Mz Pip]

41. Arinze = Condi

Wanting him for Pope is like wanting Condi for President. He's pretty much the Catholic Church's version of a neo-con.

Mz Pip
:dem: