Kos on election fraud and the 'stolen election'

[Jesus Saves]

"So why didn't I find the Ohio stuff compelling? Because the wacked out conspiracy theories hijacked the issue, taking it away from the obvious travesties -- the long lines in Democratic precincts, attempted voter intimidation, etc., to the realm of fantasy.

Us liberal bloggers like to brag that we live in the "reality-based community". It's kind of hard to be reality-based when people are claiming that Kerry won with no hard evidence to the contrary. Was there fraud? Sure. There always has been. Was the GOP ready to steal the election if necessary? No doubt. But they didn't have to steal this one. This wasn't 2000. Bush rode his fucked up war to victory, whether we like it or not. History will judge us right, but until then, we're stuck with the results.

Now, I was open minded at first, letting the fraudsters do the analysis, ready to pounce if the smoking gun was found. But after myriad diaries crying wolf, claiming that this was the evidence to seal the deal, well, it got old. Then it got counterproductive, then it got embarrassing."

snip

"All the crying wolf is hurting the cause for electoral reform. This has been painted as a partisan issue pushed forth by wacko liberals who think Kerry won the election when Bush won. What do we need?

* Extend election day to at least a week. Keep ALL polls open during that time, not just a few at county HQ.

* Get rid of partisan election officials. A more ridiculous and inherently unfair system can never exist. It is the King of Conflicts of Interests.

* Implement a national standard for voting and fund it.

* Get rid of touch screen voting machines. A paper trail is useless, as a machine could easily be programmed to cast the vote for candidate A, while printing a receipt with candidate B's name on it.

* Select optical scan machines. The technology allows for quick tabulation of the votes, while retaining a paper trail for random audits and full recounts.

* All precincts that reported lines longer than one hour should be required to add voting machines before the next election.

* The pitiful state of voting infrastructure in poor and minority areas is literally criminal, and redress should be sought both in the legislatures and in the courts.

* Ditch the electoral college.

And so on. That's just stuff off the top of my head. These are all non-partisan issues. But the Ohio Fraudsters have not just made the issue highly partisan, but they have cried wolf so many times that it's easy for opponents to dismiss ALL of these issues."

http://pls.dailykos.com/story/2005/1/3/135759/4341

[mattclearing]

1. Because Kos knows all.

This has been disseminated here before you joined DU. You are late.

Edit to note: DU guidelines require copyrighted material to be cut to 4 paragraphs or less.

[ladjf]

5. I remember why I've quit logging on the KOS.

[suziedemocrat]

21. I too stopped going to Kos because of this.

I am a computer programmer - not some tin-foil-hat nut. I think if other democracies use exit polls to verify their elections - why shouldn't we? There is A LOT of circumstantial evidence to prove a stolen election. You can be sentenced to life in prison with enough circumstantial evidence. There is at least enough to raise some eyebrows and call for an investigation!!!!!

I was getting a little sick of Kos because people there were very insulting to me at times - and I don't log onto a liberal site to be insulted. I'm a peace-corp joining , vegetarian eating, liberal - but not liberal enough for the people at kos - which hurt my feelings until I left.

Also, I have an old Mac (OS 9.1!!) and a dial-up connection and the pages at kos took forever to load and frequently locked up my computer.

I think the mods here do a great job at keeping the tone civil. They also seem to discourage the more nutty ideas - but I don't think thinking there was massive fraud in the 2004 election is nutty. But that's just me.

Oh - and the spell-checker here is great!!! And the grammar police all seem to have stayed at kos.

[ladjf]

25. The last thing we need is to get advice from a candy assed

minimizer.

[ladjf]

26. The last thing we need is advice from a candy-assed

minimizer.

[Jesus Saves]

27. I don't know who you're thinking of

It's not Kos.

[ClarkUSA]

2. Kos is just jealous that DUers are responsible for all the work they did

Getting Keith Olbermann to cover it, writing to John Conyers and creating an uproar so loud that it culminated in Barbara Boxer standing up for us on January 6.

[saltpoint]

6. Much truth to that, ClarkUSA, yes.

KOS was late in reacting and off-base in analysis of the Ohio felony election fraud story.

They're very good on many things over there but they missed the red side of a green barn on this one.

[Jesus Saves]

17. oh come on...

[saltpoint]

19. Oh come on, people now, smile on your brother /

Everybody get together
Try to love one another
right now

Right now

Right now....

[Jesus Saves]

20. Everybody get together now

and drop the tinfoil

for awhile...

So we can focus on fixin' the problems and not just throwing it all away.

[saltpoint]

22. Sorry, Jesus. I reject your assertion that Dubya is --

-- a legitimately elected president.

Cheating wafts off the 2000 and 2004 Bush campaigns like a stench.

History has a way of unearthing documents which shed light on the past. Your assertion excludes History from its own card game.

That's always an iffy move.

[in_cog_ni_to]

3. Jesus Saves? Why didn't he save the election from being stolen

by the cabal?

It did happen. Believe it. Those people are pure evil. They stole the 2000, 2002 and 2004. There's plenty of threads on DU if you really care to learn the TRUTH.

[saltpoint]

4. Kenneth Blackwell. And a K. Harris in Florida, too.

These names, plus 'Diebold' plus 'Rove' plus 'Swift Boat Veterans' . . .

When I add all that up, I get 'felony election fraud.'

I've checked the math again and again, and it still keeps coming up 'felony election fraud.'

Gore won in 2000. Kerry-Edwards won last November.

Bush cheated.

[ltfranklin]

7. Think CSI....

They had Motive
They had the Means
They had Opportunity
There is plentiful Circumstantial Evidence

Probable Cause, I'd say!

[saltpoint]

13. Nicely summarized & right on to boot!

[ltfranklin]

14. More CSI

If this was a CSI episode, they'd already be running the little vacuum cleaners over the rugs in RNC headquarters.

Not to mention the UV lamps...hit the lights, will you?

[jean]

8. Bad form, using Rove-speak: "wacked out conspiracy theories"

[Minstrel Boy]

9. And Republicans didn't feel like answering exit polls

this time, and only in Ohio.

[CatWoman]

10. Attention Whores Activate!!!!

Shape of..............

[Kathy in Cambridge]

11. Here we go again!

:crazy:

[saltpoint]

12. For the moment, say the exit polling was not available --

-- as a variable in your theory that Bush legitimately won.

If DU is the lurid center of leftist conspiracies on Ohio's outcome, then the only conclusion that can be reached, according to you, is that Bush is the legitimate president.

That would annoint him, would it not? Fuel his "mandate"? Justify his fake news feeds and his squirmy little explanations of complex ideas?

No sale.

The fix was on. It was electronic in aspect, a perfect manifestation of the media as the message: Diebold electronic voting machines as the medium AND the message, which is, "Kerry vote totals? WHAT Kerry vote totals?"

Bush cheated.

[DoYouEverWonder]

15. At least half the fraud

is in the Absentee ballots. Until we fix this problem and the problem with ether voting, there will never be another fair and free election in this country again.

[K-W]

16. The burden of proof must be on the state to prove legitimacy,

not on the opposition to prove foul play.

If the state cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the system was not tampered with, the results are suspect, case closed.

[mattclearing]

18. Bingo.

Not only that, but the state refuses to undertake a serious investigation or recount.

Freepers claimed it was a waste of taxpayer money. Apparently they had never heard of Iraq.

[Zorra]

23. The only reason that we have voting systems that are unverifiable,

is so that they can be used to manipulate vote tallies.

The only reason any agency would use an unverifiable voting or accounting system would be to cheat without possibility of getting caught.

And this is why I know for a fact that electronic voting machines were used to steal the 2004 presidential election.

Momma drowned all the dummies.

Have a nice day.

[RagingInMiami]

24. In Florida in 2000, Bush beat Gore by 537 votes

Since then, the state's population grew so much they gave it an additional two electoral votes.

Most of the people who moved to Florida were democrats, including South Americans and Puerto Ricans, as well as thousands of northeastern transplants.

I was living in Arizona during 2000. I moved back to Miami before the 2004 election to volunteer for Kerry and MoveOn.

During my volunteer work, I talked to so many people who voted for Bush in 2000 who told me they were sick of his shit and were now voting for Kerry, including veterans and Cubans, both who traditionally vote republican.

I did not meet a single person who voted for Gore in 2000 who suddenly decided to vote for Bush.

Does anybody know of such a person?

Then there was the butterfly ballot fiasco in palm beach in 2000,in which thousands of Jewish retirees voted for Pat Buchanan, as well as thousands of black voters who were intimidated and disfranchised that year. Let's not forget how Jeb Bush stationed his state troopers outside a polling place in north Florida that year.

Let's also consider how many Cubans voted against Gore for the Elian bullshit that occurred during Clinton's administration, and how many independents were pissed off about the Monica bullshit.

And let's face it, many people voted for Bush because they found Gore too boring. Bush was the lesser of two evils back then. That was before he announced he was a "war president".

Since then, the Cuban community is split over Bush because he has tightened the embargo, making it harder for them to send money back to their families in Cuba.

The mostly democratic Jewish retirees in Palm Beach were extra careful how they voted this time. They were not going to get screwed twice.

The black community had staged huge voting registration drives and were not going to let themselves get intimidated like they did the year before.

On election day, I was working as an exit pollster north of downtown Miami. For every 20 Kerry voters, I counted one Bush voter. The next day, the official results from that precinct had Kerry winning by 70 percent. I have no idea where all these extra Bush voters came from because I had been there from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m.

During the election day, I was listening on the radio at how the exit polls from all over the state were showing Kerry winning huge. And these were polls from northern and central Florida, traditionally republican strongholds.

They had not even counted south Florida yet, which is the most liberal part of the state.

But just after 11 p.m. that night, the AP called Florida for Bush, saying he had won by thousands of votes.

We went from a 537 vote difference to whatever we had in 2004 despite everything I just mentioned.

It just doesn't add up. I will go to my grave convinced that Bush stole the election.

[Moderator]

28. Locking

Flamebait.

[Moderator]

29. Just adding

This is an old article, and the author had another thread with the same points.