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Let us call things by their proper names: NeoCons are Malthusians

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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:10 PM
Original message
Let us call things by their proper names: NeoCons are Malthusians
Simple, now the whole thing makes perfect sense.
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Tweed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Yes because most people are familiar with that term
:shrug:
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:14 PM
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2. Malthusian elements for certain ...
A real dilemna.
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:17 PM
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3. It's not all that obvious to me
Thomas Malthus was an eighteenth-/nieteenth-century British clergyman who wrote an essay that predicted a crisis in overpopulation.

How does this relate to neoconservatism?
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. because, as the wikipedia says
"Only misery, moral restraint and vice (which for Malthus included contraception) could check excessive population growth. Malthus favoured "moral restraint" (including late marriage and sexual abstinence) as a check on population growth. However, it is worth noting that Malthus proposed this only for the working and poor classes. Thus, the lower social classes took a great deal of responsibility for societal ills, according to his theory. Essentially what this resulted in was the promotion of legislation which degenerated the conditions of the poor in England."
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Thank you
In addition to the Wikipedia article, I found the Essay on Population. Perhaps I should give it a once-over.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Homosexuality is not immoral and keeps population in check too.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I know he advocated abstinence to prevent overpopulation
but I'd put that more as a 'religious right' position than anything else. I can't see the neoconservative angle myself.
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applegrove Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. They do love the 19th Century. And just like the 19th Century.. the
horribly poor will jump at the chance to get a tiny salary and fight wars. For many poor.. enlisting in the British Army was the only chance they had to buy a beer. So wars were looked forward to with glee.

Neocons want perpetual war and perpetual markets remember!
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. Remember the Malthusian belts in "Brave New World"?
Edited on Sun Apr-10-05 06:26 PM by Cleita
All the girls got one so that they wouldn't reproduce. They contained a supermarket of birth control devices although I think our neo-cons would just neuter everyone in reality if they were in charge of that world. Since humans were bred in test tubes according to what they would be needed for like into Alpha, Beta and Delta strains and so on, it wouldn't do to have unrestrained breeding going on. The results may not be desirable.
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Sapphire Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. They are Dominionists...
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 05:54 PM
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9. A weed is a weed is a weed
but this touches on some other speculation. The ideologues are mainly suckers too close to the real power when purge time comes. What do the prime movers and planners and exploiters REALLY think? I am perfectly willing to ascribe to the open source theory that, yes, they are as dumb and short sighted and tunnel visioned as they appear. Even that various creeds and fanaticisms(where hypocrisy is a confusing major virtue) are sincerely held.

But, with latex gloves to the elbow, digging deep into the bowels of the plutocratic dynasties, the think tanks and their councils, what do they really believe? What are they actually planning beyond the venal fascist trips of the moment?

With their grandiose habit of loudly denying what is goes the companion fact of their planning for the exploitation of that very fact. They believe in global warming. They know damn well about peak oil. They have a pessimistic view of war and competition in such times of extreme change. They believe the human race is as rotten and irredeemable as they are or at least too feeble to help themselves. They know modern medicine can do this, technology do that(with severe generational limitations on the non-criminal potential of science). They know what those obvious crises are that are advancing on the race in the aging bulge, hunger, disease, etc.

However and whatever they know. However they judge these facts, one thing is inescapable. They fix their sight on dealing with the results their way, NOT to mitigate suffering(in fact, to speed it and increase it in their own twisted logic), not to prevent or lessen the crises, not to invest in humane and global democratic cooperation, not to marshal science or any other human resource to humane ends. Ideology that makes this look anything other than it is is convenient only. Christian apocalyptic which would be satisfied with the implosion of all schemes I think barely registers as a fallback position.

To profit, shield, empower and position themselves, destroying democracy in advance of collapse, restoring the good old days as humanity dies out. Most of the evil breed know they are living in a transition time and comfort themselves with missing the mess and fallacies when the bills come due. I wonder what the younger generation of Murdochs and Sciafes and Bushes really think about the future? Nothing really insightful except merely being ready to be Dracula in the castle brooding over the impoverished locals, squeezing the last glamor and power out of a civilization they are prematurely suiciding
as if THAT would reimpose a new fantasy of civilization among the swelling graveyards of pollution and diet murdered, enslaved and butchered masses.

For, as with Bush, consequences are not a concern. Ripeness for taking what they want, focusing on the prize when all others are weakly and dully sensing trouble ahead. No need for deep thinking, no need to believe. In fact it is better to keep humanity as a whole from doing that and overwhelming the leeches with real human thinking, cooperation and action.

Close consideration makes this type of individual the GREATEST threat to humanity and world security on the planet. They will hoard, abuse and destroy all the hopes of the world. Their failure could take everyone down with them. Their success would be barbaric and likely impossible as REAL long range perception is anathema to their dreams.

You can call it a philosophy down further in the ranks of the naive or dream besotted. It is going to look very bad in practice, foreseeable, avoidable and pitiful.
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-10-05 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Excellent summation...
I love posting on difficult terms in order to help encourage discussion on what words mean and what actual actions mean or the intentions behind them. Thank you for this incredible post.
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