The vicious cycle of child abuse

[proud2BlibKansan]

This has been a high profile case in my city for the last week. A man brought an 8 month old baby into a hospital in a car seat. He put the car seat on the counter of a nurse's station and walked away. Turns out he was the baby's mom's boyfriend. Mom had decided she could no longer take care of the baby so her boyfriend helped her abandon him in a safe place.

Turns out the mother had spent the majority of her childhood in foster care because both her mother and father had abused her. Her father has spent time in prison for molesting his daughters. Her mother (the baby's grandmother) now wants to adopt the baby but she has an extensive history of abusing her own children. The baby's father wants the baby, but the mom says he is a drug addict.

The debate rages on - did Mom do the right thing? Should she be charged with a crime? What happened to this family and why didn't the state's Division of Family Services do more to help break the cycle of child abuse in this family? They repeatedly returned the baby's mother to her own abusive parents when she was a child only to remove her from her home within a few months. Is it surprising that Mom did not call them to take her baby instead of having her boyfriend abandon him in a hospital?

This case hits home with me because a close friend taught the baby's mom when she was in elementary school and remembers how horribly abusive her parents were. It is incredibly disheartening to see that 15 years later, this little girl is still suffering from the effects of an abusive childhood.

http://www.kctv5.com/Global/story.asp?S=3217291&nav=1PuZYjDJ

More Coverage These are links to videos of interviews with the mother and grandmother of the baby
Woman Who Abandoned Baby Tells Story
The woman who, along with her boyfriend, abandoned her baby at a hospital broke her silence. Cindy Turman said she wanted you to hear why she did it, and Thursday night, she only wanted to tell her story to KCTV5's Surae Chinn.
- Did she do the right thing? Click here to comment. We may read some of the remarks on KCTV5 News.
More >>

Baby's Father Had Hoped to Leave Court with Son
Baby to Remain in State Custody for Now
Father Responds to Allegations of Drugs
Mother's Boyfriend: Leaving Baby at Hospital Was in Child's Best Interest
Past Could Dash Maternal Grandmother's Hopes for Raising Boy
Police: Mother Felt Like She Had No Other Option

[Senior citizen]

1. Meanwhile, back at the farm,

despite the fact that they're nominally illegal, kiddy porn sites are still thriving and getting millions of hits every day. And people are still defending them as "free speech" and denigrating anyone who dares to mention the harm done to victims.

Worst of all, overworked and understaffed child welfare agencies are still farming out foster kids to abusers who are actually getting paid taxpayer money to ruin these kids' lives. Nice deal--if you're a child molester, you just sign up as a foster parent and the state gives you kids to molest and pays you for their "care." Plus, since prosecution usually boils down to a very disturbed kid's word against yours, you're pretty sure to get away with it.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Kids in Missouri are dying in foster care

And the state has done virtually nothing to save them or prevent further deaths.

[in_cog_ni_to]

18. Why aren't the pro-lifers adopting these kids

or up in arms over their deaths? Oh, that's right...they've been born. That's where the line is drawn on caring. :grr:

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. I have been dialoging with a couple pro-lifers

on another board. They think this is a ho hum nothing to see here story. They called the family white trash.

So you are right. They really don't care.

[readmoreoften]

26. who the heck says kiddie porn is free speech?

or actual snuff films (that means people who are murdered for the explicit purpose of making the movie, not footage of actual deaths) or films where people are raped or abused?

All these things are illegal because they hurt real people. Free speech advocates fight against people who want to criminalize people who take photos of 30 year old strippers in catholic schoolgirl outfits or who arrest people for drawing cartoons like Michael Diana's comic strip about a kid who has sex with his guardian angel.

[mongo]

38. No one is defending child pornography as "free speech"

That is a ridiculous statement.

And if child porn is thriving in America you can thank Pres. Bush for taking the focus of the FBI's obscenity unit OFF of child pornography - and back on to adult obscenity.

[LiberallyInclined]

2. In Illinois- a baby can be left at a hospital, police/fire station...

no questions asked, no charges filed.
they decided that it's better than finding them dead in a dumpster somewhere.

personally- i made the concious choice NOT to have children because of the abusive nature of my own upbringing(beatings and extreme verbal & psychological abuse)...that I could picture myself very easily continuing the "vicious cycle" was a big part of it- but another BIG aspect is that...i want my life to be about me for awhile- that might sound selfish, but my childhood was not about "me", and for most people it is...the main thing is- parenthood is not for me, and i realize that. unfortunately, too many people that shouldn't be parents think that they should, and are.

[proud2BlibKansan]

6. We have the same law here

but the baby must be less than a month old. This baby is 8 months old.

Thanks for being so honest about your experiences in childhood. That kind of dialog goes a long way toward solving this horrid and tragic probelm of child abuse. :hug:

[MissWaverly]

9. same thing happened to me and I chose not to have kids

I am also for pro-choice because I realized back then that somebody could not be parents, you cannot force people to be good parents, I hope you find some happiness and peace. I am now 52, my dad passed away 5 years ago and as time passes it is better. He is gone and cannot hurt me anymore. He always had guns around loaded, and brought them with him when he came to visit. Plus sleeping with a hunting knife under the pillow, things like that still frightened me even when he was older.

[Spencer10]

35. Wow

I've never known anyone whose father did similar things to my father. Never in my life did I see my father without a gun strapped to his chest. Never. He slept with a gun under his pillow and drove with a gun in the glove compartment of his car (along with the one already strapped to his chest). As you can probably guess, I come from a long, long line of abusive families. I, too, chose not to have children, having spent the better part of 30 years in therapy trying to come to terms with it. However, as I've said before on Kos, life had other plans for me. My sister passed away (her husband died 2 years before her), and I am now raising her son. We both go to therapy every week trying to make sure that some how, some way, the sins of the father aren't passed down once again. If I can somehow stop generations of abuse with this one child, my time here on earth will have been well spent. Right now he's doing beautifully, so I have a lot to be thankful for.

[MissWaverly]

40. Spencer, may God bless you!

You sound like a good man, I have a theory, I was talking to my sister about this, that we as the kids, were the parents, we dealt, the reason that I feel my parents were so abusive is that they could never deal. My mother could not even call the beauty parlor to make an appointment, my parents had 4 children. If you have the coping skills, you'll be okay since you were your own parent.

[Eloriel]

10. No it's not selfish -- it's called self-care

And how incredibly mature and wise of you to recognize that you needed that.

If you ever get to the point you feel you can be a loving parent, and are willing to, you can either adopt or foster yourself or volunteer in important other ways. (CASA -- Court Appointed Special Advocates -- is a great program, btw, and doesn't really require that much interaction with the kids. It's not like Big Brothers or Big Sisters or anything. I was a volunteer in this program for a while. Just file it away for later.)

Anyway, I salute you!!

[Ladyhawk]

29. I always appreciate your wisdom, Eloriel. Thanks. n/t

[Ladyhawk]

15. I made the same decision for partially the same reason.

I think what cinched it was my mother's day care center. She was always finding "projects" besides her own family. At one point, she even wanted to get foster children. I found myself resenting the day care kids and even being abusive myself. This kind of behavior had been modeled for me by my father. When I got older, I decided I didn't believe in hitting children for any reason, but didn't feel I could trust myself with children of my own.

I do have a nephew and I always told him that if I ever hit him, he had the right to hit back. :) I know his parents "spanked" him, whatever that means. Beatings with a belt were called "spankings" by my father. I made it clear I didn't agree with his parents. As he got older, I even told him that both his parents had screwed him over and that if he ever wanted to talk about it, I would listen. He's a very quiet kid and it's hard to tell what goes on in his mind.

Like you, I really need to find out who I am. I need to learn to love myself, despite the teachings of the past. I am still working on that...I seem to be excellent at self-sabotage. Also, my body isn't terribly cooperative. :(

There were other reasons I decided not to get married and have children, but this was an important reason, too.

[kineneb]

27. As well in California, and now for some history

Being a history geek, one of the courses I took covered Renaissance Venice. Their solution to unwanted children was through the church. The churches ran an extensive "orphanage" system. Here is how it worked: the orphanage building had a sort of rotating table let into the wall with an opening to a room for a special porter. A person could bring an infant, place it on the table, ring a bell and then the infant would be taken in by the porter. No questions were ever asked, no one had to find out about the parents. It was assumed if an infant showed up, they were a gift of the parent. The child grew up in the orphanage and was trained for an occupation for the time when they would leave. Seems a lot more humane than a dumpster or being abused.

And for classical music fans- Vivaldi wrote most of his music for the girls and young women musicians in one of the most famous of those orphanages, the Pieta.

[Eloriel]

30. Oh, God, I shudder to think...

Don't imagine that the lives of those children were wonderful -- weren't the little boys who could sing made into castrata, and the girls into nuns? And all into servants? And abused, no doubt including sexually?

Not a pretty sight.

[kineneb]

32. No, their life was not ideal

but given the time, it was a reasonable alternative. In a time before birth control, when having a bastard child (all too common) was a black mark, this was a safety valve for all. In Venetian culture of the time, if a man did not have the money to provide for a dowry, a daughter was often taken to one of the orphanages, otherwise no dowry, no marriage. And remember the larger size of families in that time.

And, yes, mostly the children were trained to be servants, which in that day was not a bad occupation, or in the case of some boys, trained to join the Venetian Navy or merchant marine. I think they were actually placed by the orphanages when they were old enough.

Judged by the standard of its time, the Venetian orphanages were remarkable humane. The lesson we could learn is the total anonymity of the person leaving the child. The person never saw the porter, and the porter never saw the adult leaving off the infant.

[autorank]

3. proud2Blib, Excellent & thought provoking. This sentence...

"did Mom do the right thing?" Abandonment is an earth shattering event in any child's life, even infants one can argue. In absolute terms and just thinking of her impact on the child, I believe that the mother did the right thing. She knew what was coming down the pike and she needed to take action. Now, a mini rant here, I'm sick of "I want to keep the baby" syndrome from pregnant teens. It is just appalling, like the "baby" is going to save them. "The right life" movement has really done its job of mass brain washing. In terms of moral responsibility, the mother should never have conceived in the first place. Absent a serious mental illness/deficiency, she's responsible for this choice and to blame for her act. Nevertheless, once she realized which way things were going, she did the right thing.

Senior Citizen is right above. In too many situations, foster care is not adequate.

[SoCalDem]

4. We need a new term..."relinquishment"..not "abandonment"

She did exactly the right thing..

She relinquished the child to someone who COULD care for the baby...WOULD care for them.

If a child is told that his/her mother "gave" them to someone who could and would love & care for them, and is NOT toild that Mom ABANDONED them, they will be okay with it.''Secrecy is what turns these situations ugly..

[proud2BlibKansan]

8. Good point

I am so glad I posted this here. The discussion board for this TV station I linked for the original article is turning really nasty. Those posters are calling the family 'white trash'.

I just love DU. I knew I would get some great thought provoking comments - like yours - here. Thanks.

:yourock:

[funflower]

21. "White trash"

No human being is "trash" and no child should ever be hit by anybody for any reason.

This woman is doing what she can to break the cycle.

[autorank]

23. I agree with you on secrecy. "Abandonment" is the perception

of children who have been "relinquished." They wonder over and over why was I abandoned/relinquished/left, etc. That was my point regarding the child. As for the mother, I think she did a very good thing, based on what's provided here, in relinquishing the child.

[SoCalDem]

28. My friend's daughter was adopted, and they told her from early on

that her "mother" was the one who "grew" her, and who LOVED her enough to know that her "Mommy & Daddy" needed to raise her. They had an open adoption, and always knew where the birth mother was.. they sent pictures, and told the daughter that when she was 18, they would pay for her trip to meet the woman who grew her..

She always knew that there were no secrets, and never had any problems with being adopted... in fact she is grown now and has 2 adopted kids, in addition to one she gave birth to..

She met her birth mom and they correspond, but she never had that hunger to "find" her, because she always knew who and where she was.

[autorank]

33. This experience is exceptional. There is a lot of good work out

there about adoptees reacting to their adoption. When there is trouble in the adopted family, the kids often see the adoption as the problem, when in fact it's their perception (often accurate) of being abandoned by the birth parents. At key transition points, like early teen years, there are questions that any adoptee asks relating to his or her origin. How these are handled is critical. Open and honest answers will diffuse the situation. However, many states do not allow this at all, California for example, and most make the child wait until age 18. Secrecy is the enemy in these situations. However, there are some grim realities sometimes which have to be handled with care.

The real outrage is the fact that State social services agencies don't recognize modern medicine. It is an absolute outrage to deny any adoptee his or her medical history. This is tantamount to assault or murder on the part of the state since many conditions that are heritable can be prevented with early screening, which cannot take place without a medical history. Very sad and outrageous at the same time.

The whole area of parental "abandonment" as perceived by the child is much larger than adoption and it's one that is worth a lot of attention.

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

7. My friend who taught the mother

said giving that baby up is the most unselfish thing she has ever done. She also said she knows not everyone would understand this, but she was proud of this girl when she heard what she had done.

[LisaL]

19. Actually, it's pretty clear that the most unselfish thing

for this woman would be not to have any children. People who can't take care of their kids shouldn't have any. But you see it all the time-people got a whole bunch of kids they are unable to take care of.

[autorank]

24. That's correct. The shame is not appropriate action after the fact,

it's the total shame of being too stupid to use birth control, and I mean "stupid" in the pejorative sense.

[Eloriel]

11. About those teen pregnancies

I remember seeing a Donahue show (I'm pretty sure it was Donahue) back when he was still on daytime --- lonnng time ago -- and he had several teens on who were either planning on getting pregnant or maybe already were. I think their mothers were on as well. This was back in the early 90s I believe.

I was shocked and appalled and heartsick with what they were saying. Some or all of them wanted to have babies so they could (in their words!!) get unconditional love, have someone there for me all the time, etc.

THIS IS CODEPENDENCE! You do NOT have children in order to fill the emotional needs you never had filled as a child. This too just perpetuates the vicious cycle. If you're not a person who can pledge to put all YOUR needs aside in favor of the child's endless (bottomless pit!! of ) needs, then DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN. The professionals have a word for that kind of neediness about one's onw children, btw, it's emotional incest. The adults need to BE adults and not rely on their children for their emotional needs or fulfilment, etc.


EDITED:
Proud2beLib -- great thread. Important subject.

BTW, does everyone who cares about this subject know what Howard Dean did in Vermont? This one thing alone would have made me a huge Dean fan. He cut chld abuse by 43% and child sexual abuse by 72% for children under 6 (because that's all the data they had, I think) by doing one simple thing that cost about $100 per child per year: new mothers of ALL socio-economic categories are visited IN THE HOSPITAL and offered a home visit. Many of them accept. They are also offered any assistance they need, which could include parenting class, job training, all sorts of things.

Think of the cost to society in addiction and substance abuse, failed relationships and marriages, crime, poor educational performance, on and on and on that this kind of program does. It takes my breath away....

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. I love Dean

The more I hear about him, the greater my respect for him grows.

You know many years ago my husband and I adopted a dog from the Humane Society. A couple weeks after we got her, someone knocked on our door for a surprise visit. He came in and asked to see the puppy's food dish and toys. We laughed about it at the time, but if we did something as simple as that for newborn babies, just imagine how many problems we could prevent.

[MountainLaurel]

22. Good on Dean

When I heard about this program when he first opened his campaign, I was so impressed. I spent several years working as an editor for the federal government, and spent much of the time on child and partner abuse issues. Programs like Vermont's are so, so important in (A) teaching people HOW to be parents, especially those who have no role models in that regard and (B) breaking the cycle of violence.

[autorank]

25. Eloriel, Great points!!!

In addition to the 'emotional incest,' teens sometimes act like having a baby will be the best doll they ever had. This is another form of objectification. All the right to "life" folks have done a wonderful job of enabling a bunch of people who should never have children to do just that.

I was unaware of Dean's program on visits in Vermont. It is, of course, brilliant and should be replicated everywhere. Those are amazing decreases in problems that provide the 'gift' that keeps on giving...a lifetime of problems with mood regulation, risk taking, etc. due to chronic child abuse.

[China_cat]

12. It's too bad that we don't have the Hawaiian custom

of hanai here...or at least teach it to our adopted children.

Children were raised by, not only their parents, but by grandparents and other relatives. Hanai was the kanaka maoli custom whereby a family adopts a child given by someone else and raises that child as a family member. No written records were necessary. (In old Hawaii there was no writing.) No stigma was attached to being "hanai." The practice of hanai was used to ensure that the Hawaiian culture was passed on to the younger generation. The claim of the grandparents upon their grandchildren took precedence over the claim of the parents who bore them. The parents could not keep the child without the grandparents' permission. A male child was offered to the parents of the father, and a female child was offered to the mother's parents. Parents would offer their children out of respect, as a gift of the greatest possible value. If the child were not offered, the grandparents would ask for the hanai privilege; they could not be refused. This practice extended into the community so that if the biological parents were unable to adequately provide for the needs of the child, someone else would be chosen to be the hanai parents. Children were also passed on to relatives or friends who had no children.

It was (and still is in some places) considered a great honor for the birth parents to gift a childless couple with one of their offspring. An honor not just for the birth parents but for the child. Just think of the difference in the mind set of an adopted child who, no matter how many times is told 'we chose you' still hears 'nobody else wanted you, not even the people who produced you'. I think the difference between feeling like a throwaway and feeling like an honored gift would make such a difference to adopted kids. Somehow, the way the system works now, no matter how much an adopted child is loved and loves their parents in return, they still carry that seed of believing that they weren't wanted.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. That is really neat

It really does take a village to raise a child.

[savannahana]

16. thanks for a very thoughtful thread

:hi: :kick:

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. You are most welcome

I really appreciate the level of responses it got. This is one of those topics that is not discussed enough, IMO.

[LWolf]

31. Did the mom do the right thing?

Absolutely...if it results in breaking the cycle of abuse and dysfunction. It might depend on what the system does with the child.

We need an open "no questions asked" system to take, love, nurture, and raise any child given up by a parent. Perhaps we need more adopters willing to take kids of any age and background.

Here's a sticky question: Do we need to give parents fewer chances? Do we need to step in and take parenting "priveleges" away from parents sooner than we do now? How many chances do they get to neglect, abuse, and endanger their children before they've used them all up?

My little family has made some life-changing decisions this year, and by next month all will be finalized. Last fall, we took custody of my grandson, and moved him out of state to another relative, away from the abuse that prompted the custody action. Next month, we will join him out of state, and he will be raised by a family of 4; dad, uncle, grandma, & great-grandma. We've turned our lives upside down and inside out to reform a healthy, loving, secure family grouping for him.

I wish his 2 half-siblings had someone to do the same for them; we have no legal standing to do so ourselves. I believe that they will end up with various other relations of their mother and fathers the next time the law catches up with her.

[dsc]

34. In many states, this is no longer a crime

and I agree with that position. Clearly this lady isn't prepared for motherhood and none of the relative seem prepared for parenthood either. Let a nice couple or single person adopt and be done with it. The lady and the boyfriend deserve praise not punishment for doing the right thing.

[LisaL]

36. Well, it's obviously better that she took the kid to the hospital

instead of abusing her, but praise? For what?
Some people shouldn't have children, and this woman sounds like one of these people.

[undergroundpanther]

37. This is why

I am pro choice,pro birth control.

No kid should come here unwanted,to parents unable to give them love and support and protect them from predatory adults and bully peers..

Fundamentalist beliefs about sex and"morality" really do hurt children in a LOT of different ways.
Our way of raising kids is sick.It makes our society sick to the point of self annihilation.

http://touchthefuture.org/services/bonding/main.htm
http://www.psychohistory.com/index.html
.

[dsc]

42. for figuring out her limitations

I am not going to judge her for getting pregnant and choosing not to abort.

[bleedingheart]

39. What she did was a right.

She had the ability to know that the child wasn't in the right environment and she made a very mature decision to abandon the child.

Sadly she is being castigated because the "Culture of Life" society is about punishing people into serving out their "life sentences"...born poor and have no money...tough it out...have a horrible life and try and make it better...tough shit.. that is the mantra of the "culture of life".

[porphyrian]

41. What she didn't was certainly not a crime.

Putting the baby in a dumpster would've been. The mother should've followed proper adoption procedures, but given her background, I think they did the right thing.