Am I the only person that thought the Florida girl needed a paddling?

[UdoKier]

Watching the video of the little girl as she was ransacking the room that this is a girl BEGGING for some limits and being given NONE. Locking her in a storage room for 10 minutes and ignoring her would be better, but instead, the teacher walks around telling her over and over and over again that what she is doing is unacceptable (but never providing any consequences of the behavior.)

It is not RIDICULOUS that the entire classroom had to be evacuated on account of this one very spoiled girl?

It's fucked up that a teacher can't touch a child.

I remember in 3rd grade being pulled out of the classroom by the ear, then my teacher grabbed my arms tight and got at my eye level and told me very assertively that I WOULD NOT disrupt her class. I had a time out and that if I was disruptive again, I would be going to the principal's office for a paddling. It seemed fair to me then and it seems fair to me now.

I survived being paddled twice by the principal in elementary school, and I learned from it. I fully favor bringing it back. It's ridiculous that it was allowed to get to this point.

And I see nothing to indicate that this case had anything to do with race, just a girl who behaves horribly. Today, I'll make a point to tell my 7 year old's teacher that she has my explicit permission to touch MY son whenever she sees fit. I do NOT want her to allow him to behave that way. I will even sign an affidavit to that effect.

This is one of the few areas in which I think mainstream liberals are wrong. Corporal punishment should be rare, should never injure the child, and only meted out for the worst offenses, but there is a place for it.

I haven't spanked either of my kids in years, but they know that if they did something exceptionally bad, that they would be spanked. They know there are real limits to what they will be allowed to get away with, and I think they feel more secure because of that knowledge.

Letting your kid run amok is NOT a way to show love.

Flame away if you must.

[DesEtoiles]

1. that kid needs help-looks like something bad is happening at home

[Dr.Phool]

23. I think that kid needs an exorcism

[LisaL]

77. She could just be spoiled, with her mother allowing her

to do whatever the hell she wants. As for spanking, I also think this kid needed some.

[MissB]

2. I think the mother

needs to be taught how to be a parent.

Paddling the child isn't going to change the way she behaves. Changing the way the mother parents the child may well do just that.

You are right - letting a child run amok is not a way to show love. But paddling the child isn't going to help in this instance.

[seabeyond]

3. udokeir, i betcha your child will never be in that position

my child, nor any child i know would behave like that. simply. my kids would nevAH. i have a 7 too. and a 9. they just wouldnt

but go ahead and tell your teacher, i am bettin teacher already knows you support her though. my kids teachers know

[iconoclastNYC]

4. I agree and disagree.

I think you can do it without resorting to physical violence.

I love that show Nanny 911. It shows parents how you have to keep control. Bad parents let thier children control them.

[UdoKier]

6. I do like that show. And I agree that corporal punishment should be...

very rare. Spanking on a regular basis diminishes its effect and usually makes kids behave WORSE.

I like "Supernanny" on ABC. She shows a lot of ways to discipline that avoid "violence".

[demnan]

5. Of course you are right

the child should have been removed from class. But the problem is, in our society today there is no mutual trust between parents and teachers and some parents don't discipline their kids at all. It is a huge problem for schools.

This child needs psychiatric care. No teacher should be left to try to deal with that.

[UdoKier]

7. Yeah! Why did they take all the other kids out and leave her in?!

Can you believe they actually gave a 5 year old the power to empty out a classroom?!

[bloom]

8. There are other things

consequences, redirects, choices (you can do x or y - but not z, for instance), etc.


Like someone else posted - a summer camp counselor could have done a better job of getting the girl to stop what she was doing.


There should also be some kind of reasonable, stated, understood, non-violent punishments that do not involve calling the police.

[etherealtruth]

9. I've just never believed in "spanking" as a form of punishment...

I think so many thing were going on, a child out of control (bad home life? I don't know), professionals who did not appear to posses adequate skills to diffuse the situation (vs escalating it), police who appeared to "not have a clue"...

Everybody involved needs a little intervention and/or in-service.

My kids range from 23 to 8 and are generally well behaved (corporal punishment just doesn't work for me----but, it's a personal choice for parents to make, esp. as outlined by you)...

[UdoKier]

15. In a sense, I agree that corp. punishment does not work.

I have seen parents that do it often, and their kids do NOT behave better. We used to do it more often with our kids and it did not help.

I have told my kids that I don not want to spank them because they are people too, and it's not right to hit people. Their punishments are almost exclusively in the form of time-outs and deprivation of toys or privileges.

However, I have also told them that If I come home to find they have set the curtains on fire or something really ridiculous like that, They may get a spanking, because there is a limit. But like I said, it's been a couple of years, and I don't forsee any spankings soon.

Last week I had to hold my son's hand very tight and didn't let him go for about ten minutes in a store because he was running around annd making a huge nuisance of himself. That's as close as I've gotten to corporal punishment lately - and even that would apparently not be allowed in this school...


Problem with corporal punishment is that so many parents don't realize that doing it often is extremely counterproductive. Kids should be getting a lot more praise/rewards than punishments. Also, it's important to remember that you can hurt a child much more simply by saying "I wish I'd never had you" or "you're a stupid kid" than you ever could by spanking them. Those are the scars that really last. I'll NEVER forget the time my dad called me a "little faggot", but I honestly can't remember if he ever spanked me or not. I know my mom swatted my bottom once or twice.

[etherealtruth]

29. Face it parenting Is TOUGH ...

I love my kids and wouldn't change my life, but I get frustrated too ...

Had the same "hand-holding in store" experience with my eight year old last week ... it IS hard. As parents, I think we all "lose it" (in varying ways) from time to time.

I expect more from professionals, from what I saw they escalated the situation...


Oh BTW, if I came home and found that they had set the curtains on fire ... I can't guarantee I would remain a "nonspanker"

[mcar]

61. It's not that touching the child wasn't allowed by the school

It was explicitely not allowed by the child's mother. She had told the principal of the school that the teacher and asst. principal were not allowed to touch her child.

I am not for corporal punishment, but I do get your point. Sometimes you have to be forceful with a child, with words, a look or a tight grip.

In this case, I think the police were wrong to handcuff the girl but it seems like the school officials had done everything they could do, within the boundaries that were set by the parents, to control the child's behavior.

The others posters on this issue are right, I think. The child needs counseling and social services should have been called rather than the police. If the mother couldn't be bothered coming in, she needs to face the consequences. That child is crying out for help.

[ashmanonar]

19. you don't NEED to use spanking as a punishment...

if your kids are well-behaved from the start. my parents never had to give me spankings more than once or twice...it was a psychological threat more than constant beatings.

i don't advocate giving beatings. but i do believe that parents should be able to give swats on the butt to show the kid their limits. by the age of 5, a kid should already know that kind of behavior is unacceptable in class.

looks to me like a parenting problem.

[Bethany Rockafella]

10. There's nothing wrong with spanking a kid as long as it's

done by a parent.

[Warpy]

11. Hitting that child would have made a bad situation worse

My guess is that she's already getting hit plenty.

What I found appalling about that tape was not only the fact that she was allowed to run amok in that office throwing her snot slinging fit, but that she was calmer and sitting in a chair when the cops arrived, and they STILL HANDCUFFED HER. Talk about too little too late!

I feel sorry for this kid because apparently no adult in her life knows a damned thing about how to deal with her.

[RebelOne]

12. Yes, that little girl definitely deserved a paddling.

She was acting like a total little monster. She is probably allowed to act up like that at home and her mother does not discipline her.

[UdoKier]

17. OR- the mother spanks constantly and the child is reacting...

to the lack of any limits at school. I'm not a believer in habitual paddling. It should be a final solution for when all else fails - last step before calling the police.


There are some parents who spank their kids so often that it doesn't faze them and they become even worse hellions.

[wideopen]

13. I think that maybe it's the mother that needs

the paddling. I have a 5 year old girl and she know better than to ever act out like that. In my experience raising children is not rocket science. You absolutley MUST set boundries AND stick to them without exeption. I have many friends w/kids close to the age of mine that have major problems w/ behavior and almost without exeption I see they made the problems for themselves by the way they handle their kids. If the mother doesn't want the child diciplined at school she needs to be readily available to come to school and deal w/it herself.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

14. Spanking only teaches a child that violence is the way to handle things.

It will only produce more of her acting out behavior.

Spanking and hitting is what people who are not very bright resort to when they don't have the verbal skills or confidence to deal with a person or child.

[ashmanonar]

21. as i said further up thread:

beatings, no. i would never beat my kid (if i had one) but if the kid crossed a line or boundary that i set, i would give a few swats on the butt. it doesn't have to be violence, it's just a way to get their attention and let them know that they need to calm down.

of course, doing this early (age of 2 or 3, no later) makes it easier later on...my parents never had to spank me beyond the age of 5. all they had to do was mention it, and i quieted down. :shrug:

[UdoKier]

32. Interesting and typically American viewpoint.

When I taught preschool in Japan, I was shocked to find that they let kids under 5 pretty much do whatever and used very little discipline and scolding at all. It was more about group activities and conforming, and when a kid misbehaved or didn't go along with what everyone else was doing, the kid was IGNORED. I found that little tykes will often stop the bad behavior pretty quick if you ignore them. Sometimes they are just trying to get a rise, (of course this doesn't apply to destructive or dangerous behavior)

They seem to believe in being very permissive in early childhood and stricter during the elementary years.

And corporal punishment is becoming rare in Japan, too.

[ashmanonar]

35. yea, that works too.

i'm just responding to the "OMG SPANKING IS BEATING OUR KIDS TO DEATH" mentality. you can't just use a spanking, ignoring behavior is also a good way to do things. all in all, i'd say it's a multiplicity of things.

on edit: and yes, i am "typically american". i've never been out of country, because my family cannot AFFORD to go out of country. i'd love to visit europe or asia or anywhere else in the world. however, i am not offered these opportunities.

[UdoKier]

36. Sorry if that sounded insulting - wasn't meant to be.

It's just that I thought the exact same way until I went there and was pretty shocked that they did everything the opposite of how I had always thought was best. it seemed to work well there, but the cultures are very different, so I'm not going to go so far as to say that it would be a better approach here in the states, but it might be...

[ashmanonar]

90. yea, i realized after i posted that you weren't being insulting...

:D

sorry to be snarky.

[American Tragedy]

69. I know what you mean about traveling abroad, ash.

Largely at university expense, I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to spend time in Europe researching the Third Reich for my psychology & politics thesis last year. But before then, I had never been out of the United States, so I am quite sympathetic. Without the benefit of outside funding, I could have never afforded to go. I don't know how people do it.

[ashmanonar]

93. "i don't know how people do it"

either they are truly gifted with money re: budgeting and saving, or they're rich. i don't deny that you don't HAVE to be rich to travel, but it's getting harder and harder these days with the dollar getting weaker and jobs paying less.(cost of living increasing)

[luvLLB]

37. As a mother of 3 grown kids, I have to agree...only a few butt

slaps when the kids were under 3, and after that, just the look in my eyes was enough to straighten the problem out. Of course, the little girl was, IMO, way past the talking phase. And yes, I do blame the mother. She should have been there to handle the problem WAY before it got to the school. Some people have no responsibility towards their kids, and yet will not give anyone else the authority to do it for them. Again, IMO, kids need and crave some discipline ( no, not beating them, but structure and rules with consequences for breaking them.)
But the handcuffs.....that was unnecessary.

[ashmanonar]

92. oh, i totally agree:

it should NEVER have gotten as far as it did re: calling the cops and having them CUFF the kid. the parent should have been in there first thing, to control this kid: if they couldn't, then you know something is wrong.

the police were totally out of line handcuffing this little girl.

[American Tragedy]

86. If it's just 'a few swats', how does it have corrective effect on them?

I thought physical pain was the basis of the deterrant. Why else would the common striking point be a sensitive area like the buttocks?

[ashmanonar]

91. it's more psychological than physical.

when they're young, say 2 or 3, and they cross a boundary, a few swats will cause SOME amount of if not pain then at least a stimuli. don't get me wrong: i'm not saying just patting them on the butt will work either. but just letting them walk all over you is not good parenting as well as beating them. it's a spectrum: physical abuse on one end, and lack of discipline on the other.

and if the kid wasn't expecting it (if they've never done something bad enough before), a few swats tells them that the parent is serious. then, as the poster above you said, all it takes is a look in the eyes. i knew when i was crossing the line with my parents. and they didn't usually have to say a word.

and although the butt is sensitive to stimuli, it's also remarkably resilient. a few spankings for a kid will not hurt them in any way, but will give them the message.

:shrug: i don't know how else to explain it. i turned out fine. and i thank my parents for it.

[BringEmOn]

16. What's this...the James Dobson Book Club?

[UdoKier]

18. I thought they believed in putting tabasco on the kid's tongue...

Oh wait, that was Lisa Whelchel of the "Facts of Life".

[redqueen]

78. Not much different, is it?

Causing pain to make your point... how is it different, other that it's an unusual method of causing pain, instead of the societally-sanctioned form?

[UdoKier]

85. My gripe is with the frequency, not the technique.

Apparently these people do this pretty often.

I have put tabasco on my little one's thumb once to discourage thumbsucking. Didn't work, and I didn't have the heart to do it again....

[whistle]

20. Poor adult supervision, totally unqualified and even provoking...

...the 5 year old into continuing her unacceptable behavior was what I saw on the video.

<snip>
By the year 2000, 23 states -- mostly in the South -- continued to allow their students to be beaten: AL, AZ, AR, CO, DE, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, MS, MO, NM, NC, OH, OK, PA, SC, TN, TX, WY. It is still legal in Rhode Island, but is banned by each of the public school districts in the state."

<end snip>


I believe however that corporal punishment of children by an unauthorized adult is not allowed in Florida public schools at this time. A trained child psychatrist not the police should have been called in. I also question who was video taping this whole affair, because the entire episode appeared staged and certainly if this little girl was in the presence of more than one adult none of whom had any authority over her, she could very easily have been provoked into acting out, especially if she was in front of a camera. That video was definitely pan and scanning the child throughout.

I do not advocate or oppose spanking, but having raised four children I always reserved that right for myself or my wife although I don't think I can count the total number of times where that form of punishment was ever used by either of us on any of our kids on both hands. Time outs were heavily administered along with productive forms of punishments such as extra homework assignments, grounding, no TV for designated periods, no friends over at certain times and so forth.

I am sure there are plenty of sites dealing with the topic of corporal punishment and child spanking. This is only one point of view below:

<snip>
CORPORAL PUNISHMENT OF CHILDREN
SPANKING: ALL POINTS OF VIEW

In this section, you will read that:
King Solomon, in the Bible, strongly recommended corporal punishment of children.
Many Evangelical Christian leaders favor spanking.
A possible interpretation of the Bible's message about spanking -- that strong physical discipline can lead to vicious, bullying, and hateful behavior when the child becomes an adult.
Some countries have outlawed spanking, both in the home and at school.
Some child protection services In North America regard any corporal punishment that leaves marks on the skin to be abuse.
A massive, long-term study shows that spanking of children often causes them problems in adulthood, including anxiety, major depression, drug addiction and alcohol addiction.
One in three boys in New Zealand has a mood-altering gene which will cause 85% of them to engage in criminal and antisocial behavior later in life, if they are seriously abused during childhood. The study has not yet investigated whether moderate levels of spanking will also trigger this behavior. There is little reason to believe that this same gene does not exist in males in North America.

<more>
<link> http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin2.htm

[UdoKier]

25. I don't think paddling is the same as "beating", but anyway...

There is something disturbing about the particular way that evangelicals promote spanking. They seem to view it as a way to force kids to do whatever they want, rather than a an extreme, last-resort punishment. They also seem to not have any concept of the fact that children are indeed people and should be treated with a modicum of respect.

I can't put it into words, but whenever I hear evangelicals talking about spanking, I get pictures of Andrea Yates in my head.

[whistle]

33. yep and Abu Graide Prison

[redqueen]

79. re: spanking (not beating), from a post above...

"A massive, long-term study shows that spanking of children often causes them problems in adulthood, including anxiety, major depression, drug addiction and alcohol addiction."

[ashmanonar]

94. excuse me if i call the study a bit skewed.

i was spanked as a child (when i deserved it) and i've turned out just fine...i don't have drug addictions, don't really like alcohol all that much, i've only once or twice been depressed (and that's attributable to other reasons-re:LIFE), and i'm generally not anxious...

societal factors other than just spanking could lead to these problems too...like an unstable economy (so that parents are worried all the time: kids pick up on parental worry very easily), changing societal norms, a rising divorce rate, and how many other factors. i don't think a few spankings when kids are young is gonna turn them into depressed drug addicts.

[redqueen]

96. Just because you don't fall into the pattern

does not mean the study was skewed. It simply does not follow.

[ashmanonar]

97. even so...

i'd say it's very difficult to shoehorn one type of disciplinary action into this entire population of people. (depends on how many were in the study)...

does this study take into account societal conditions? economic conditions? the individual personalities of the kids growing up? any neural disorders? family histories?

i'm sorry, i don't think you can track such generic problems as depression right down to whether kids were spanked as kids. 50 years ago, many if not most people spanked their kids...wouldn't it follow that a greater number of elderly today would have these neural disorders?

[redqueen]

98. 10,000 adults

I'm not here to convince you. You seem to have your mind made up.

I'm aiming this at those with open minds.

If you have an open mind, read the info at the link.

[ashmanonar]

100. open minded?

for one, i have no clue what link you're talking about. i don't know where it is, barring a vague direction.

for two: i'm openminded enough to think that there are other contributing factors. to think that only one type of disciplinary action can cause such widespread problems in people (without taking into consideration that people are DIFFERENT, and react differently to things) is pretty closed minded, in my opinion.

what's next, time outs give young children psychological issues? red ink makes students "worried"? oh wait... linky

i'm sorry, but without more details/data all this pontificating on spanking causing violence is pointless.

[Cuban_Liberal]

22. That child has more problems than a spanking will solve.

I would bet you $10 to a stale doughnut that that child already has a social worker and that Child Protective Services (or its equivalent) has already intervened prior to this event. The child's major problem is likely that she has a completely ineffective parent; that's what needs to be worked on--- not this little girl's rear end.

[wideopen]

27. Thats what I'm saying -- It's the mother

If you can't handle your child, and refuse to let the school do it, then where is the poor kid supposed to learn dicipline? A problem w/a 5 year old can almost always be attributed to the parents, I've seem it too many times.

[Cuban_Liberal]

31. Absolutely.

:thumbsup:

[Susang]

39. How come nobody says "It's the father" in these situations?

Ever notice that? How come the responsibility and blame is always brought down to bear solely on the mother?

[UdoKier]

41. Probably because it's a single mother in this case.

And because she is getting all the media spotlight.

but chalk it up to sexism if that's your agenda...

[wideopen]

43. I don't recall any mention of the father

but I absolutely agree the father should be held accountable. The only question is where the hell is he? I am the father of two and I know how hard a job it is to be a mother, one of the reasons I think the norm in society is the man goes to work and mom stays home is that most men can't handle the job moms do. I guess maybe I'm a little old school but I still think the ultimate responsibility for the children's discipline should come from dad. Only in this case he's apparently not around, therefore it's up to the mom.

[Cuban_Liberal]

47. Because there is no father in the picture, AFAIK.

I've seen numerous stories on this, and there's never been a mention of a father.

[slackmaster]

54. In this case lack of a father figure might be a factor

Children of both sexes need positive adult role models of both sexes IMO.

[ashmanonar]

95. very possible.

although i hesitate to say that not having a parental figure of some sort is certain to lead to such problems: i do agree that single parents have a monstrously more difficult time just surviving.

[TexasSissy]

24. I thought the plastic ties were appropriate and better than hitting.

But that's me. Both are traumatic...but the situation itself was traumatic.

It is possible that the kid is a manic-depressive or something. She should be checked out immediately. If it's not physical/biological, then surely she has emotional/psychological problems. Her behavior, IMO, was NOT a normal tantrum. It was extreme, it was violent, and it is a precursor to some serious injury that she will likely inflict on another person in the future, if her problem isn't taken care of. All it would have taken was throwing one ruler across the room to put out the teacher's eye or another child's eye.

Spanking would not have resolved the situation, I believe. Because it was not a normal tantrum.

[UdoKier]

26. She didn't even slap the girl's hand when she grabbed things to throw.

Is that considered "beating" now, too?

Also, being handcuffed, she must have thought she was going to jail. As a kid, that would scare me way more than any spanking.


Hell, it scares me more now...

[Cuban_Liberal]

28. Did anyone say anything about 'beating' her?

:eyes:

[UdoKier]

30. That reply was to #24, not your post.

And it was directed more to the general perception that any physical contact with a kid these days is a "beating", not to any post in particular.

When we lived in Florida (hellhole), my kid's preschool teachers were not even allowed to HUG the kids! In Preschool!


ridiculous.

[realFedUp]

34. Needs an hour with Super Nanny!

no kids act this way unless there's a medical reason
or some bad parenting IMO.

[Unions]

38. What will you do when your 7 year old is bigger than you?

And decides to return the favor? I know I did...

[UdoKier]

40. Please comment after you have read my posts

as you obviously have not.

[Unions]

44. I have

and I think you'll be in for a surprise about oh say 10 years from now.

[UdoKier]

48. If you attacked your father because he gave you one or two spankings...

... as a child, I would say it was you with the problem, not your father.


I sure as hell never physically attacked my parents.

[Unions]

49. More than 2

Try near every day. Others I know who have experienced the same thing also responded the same way.

I'll say one thing though... after I roughed him up he decided beating on me wasn't quite so fun anymore. What's the message in that?

Fortunately I didn't turn out to be a violent person, and that's the only time I was ever physically violent in my life... but I have a small dislike for people like your self as I'm sure you can understand.

[UdoKier]

51. That's why I said you didn't read my posts.

I'm vehemently against frequent spankings, as I said numerous times.

It does more harm than good.

I hug my kids 10 times a day. They probably can't remember back to their last spanking.

I'm sorry your father was abusive. But that's no reason to be an absolutist.

[Unions]

52. Hm

That's what my father told people too.

[UdoKier]

55. Oh please.

That is so uncalled for. Since you are accusing me of lying for no reason, I can only assume that you are lying as well, and that your father treated you like gold.

[Unions]

57. I never said you were lying

but child abusers have a habit of not being so honest publicly... that's my point.

[wideopen]

WTF are you trying to say here?

please some relevant imput or go away.

[Unions]

66. Where did you come from?

I was speaking to someone else.

My relevant input is that those who decide to use physical violence on their child will get theirs when that child grows up. The OP says it's not a frequent thing and I have no reason to not believe that. But everyone I've met who was abused including my self has a parent who said the same thing in public. Just a little piece of advice for anyone reading who might need it.

[wideopen]

73. I see no one advocating physical violence

just a discussion about a 5 yo. and her mother. Your point is well taken and I certainly agree it can be taken too far. thank you.

[UdoKier]

63. You totally implied that I was.

I gave you the courtesy of believing your story on face value. This is an anonymous forum. If I had something more to confess, I would.

[Unions]

68. I'm sorry you interpreted it that way

I was speaking in a broad sense. Of course it sounds like you had a nice little childhood so I'm not surprised you don't understand my feelings towards it.

And please spare me the anonymous part. Everyones IP is logged and anyone with common sense knows a simple subpoena by law enforcement will reveal anyones identity.

[UdoKier]

72. You're right, maybe I don't understand.

I am sorry that your dad put so much anger and hostility into you. It seems as though a lot still remains. But not everybody who doesn't agree with you 100% is your enemy. Maybe you could try not approaching them like they are...

[wideopen]

56. That is not the issue we are discussing here

we are discussing parenting responsibilities and spanking a 5 year old not hitting a kid every other day throughout his childhood. Sorry you apparently had a rough one but spanking used wisely can be an effective dicipline tool. Sounds like maybe your dad didn't understand the "wisely" part.

[geniph]

42. I feel sorry for the school, personally

they're between a rock and a hard place. If they grab the kid and drag her to a storage closet, they're liable to be sued for abusing her. If they don't do anything, then they're called incompetent. If they call the cops to deal with it, then they get this kind of tempest in a teapot.

Look, I have no idea what the deal is with this kid and her mom. Her mom could be a perfectly fine parent who's overwhelmed with an acting-out kid. I refuse to condemn her for not showing up instantly when the school called, either - a lot of people would lose their job, instantly, no appeal, if they left work to deal with something like this. They CAN'T just leave work.

The problem, to me, is that there are no clear guidelines for the school's personnel on how to handle a child who's acting out, potentially violent, and/or destructive. The ideal thing, of course, is to get the kid somewhere where the situation can be de-escalated while the child calms down, somewhere the kid can't damage anything or harm themself or others. But HOW? I work for a school district, and I can tell you right now, most of our personnel would have NO idea how to handle a situation like this. They'd be afraid to grab the kid or yell at her, because of the likelihood of being sued. And if you do get ahold of her and take her to a time-out room, how do you do that without dragging her, getting the shit kicked out of you, or hurting her? (If you don't think a 5-year-old in a tantrum can kick the shit out of you, you've never tried to restrain one who was seriously flipping out.)

Grabbing the kid and spanking her isn't going to help, either. What probably would work best is to put your arms around her from behind in a bearhug and remove her immediately to a quiet room, but she's going to kick, she's going to scream, and mom's going to press charges afterward.

Personally, I think every school district should have a written policy that states that a child who's acting out in such a manner as to be potentially harmful to themself or others, or destructive of property, can be restrained in such a manner (not the zip-ties, the bearhug), and every parent should be required to sign it before the child's allowed to attend that school.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

45. Suddenly, a 7 year old is in charge?

I'm not a big fan of spanking, having endured more than my share as a kid, but some adult should have taken charge of the spoiled brat until her parents were notified of her expulsion.

[American Tragedy]

46. Neither of my parents ever physically chastised me

and they wouldn't have tolerated another adult administering such punishment. My mother and father, for better or for worse, believed that striking a child would ultimately teach them that violence was a legitimate solution to interpersonal problems.

I definitely wasn't a brat - in fact, I was a very quiet kid in school, even made fun of by others for not getting into trouble.

To me, corporal punishment is not only unnecessary, but of questionable effectiveness. There is no doubt in my mind that my mom's verbal corrections had a far greater and more lasting effect than merely slapping me could have possibly achieved. Hell, sometimes all she had to do was look at me.

That's just anecdotal, of course. I suppose extreme situations sometimes demand extreme measures. I have to admit, I've never seen a child act the way that this little girl did.

[UdoKier]

60. I do agree that parents should be able to opt out of corporal punishment

They could sign a paper that says their child is not to be paddled and could be suspended instead.

I don't think that schools should have a RIGHT to paddle. It should be with parents' consent. And if it were my son, I would give the consent.


You had to do something pretty bad when I was a kid to get paddled.

The first time I did, it was 2nd grade, and I had carved my name in the desk with a little pocketknife (imagine the brouhaha that would cause today!)

The second time, it was because I was fighting with some other kid in the lunch line in the cafeteria. I guess it was my fault - can't remember now.

[tjdee]

50. That's the uncreative way, sure.

Again, I express astonishment at the support of the uncreative and base effort put forward by the school.

Spanking a kid says "I'm tired and out of ideas" or "I'm not interested in thinking of other ideas, because I can hurt you so you'll stop". I tried physical discipline (swatting hands) with my child once or twice, and it was because I was tired--it didn't work wonders, and I won't do it again. She behaves very well, and when she doesn't, I discipline her in other ways.

I was spanked, I know spankers, spankers are often great parents. But I don't think it's good--even though for some children it may work.

[slackmaster]

53. That kid needs Quaaludes and a caring foster family

:argh:

It's unfair to the rest of the children to allow her to disrupt their education. She obviously has serious problems and needs professional help.

[Dervill Crow]

58. No flames from me.

She probably needed a pop on the Pamper when she was a toddler and didn't get it. I admit to not seeing the entire video, but if she settled down when she saw the police, she wasn't truly out of control; she was making a conscious choice to be a hellion.

I received one, and only one, "lickin'" when I was three years old, and I made every possible effort to make sure it didn't happen again. Kids need to know there are consequences to their behavior, and a well-placed swat is a language more readily understood by a small child than the most articulate argument that can be presented by a parent. It doesn't breed violence or antisocial behavior, it simply establishes who is in charge.

[Lauri16]

74. Me either

I remember getting my ass beat twice when I was a kid. Once when I said the word f*ck in public--my mom cracked me so hard, we had to drive to the next county to pick up my face...the other time I took $5 from my mom's dresser. She beat my ass big time, and took anything that resembled "fun" out of my bedroom for two weeks - tv, stereo, transistor radio, (no hand-held video games when I was a kid) you name it, if it was fun it was gone!

I can tell you, I NEVER did those or anything else that would warrant a butt-kickin again.

Kids today need discipline, not a wimpy "time out".
There's a HUGE difference between discipline and abuse.

[CornField]

59. I've yet to meet a child who *needs* a paddling. I have, however, met many

adults who felt the need to paddle children.

[wideopen]

64. Uuh, do you have any boys?

Just wondering.

[CornField]

71. Yes, boys and girls n/t

[thecai]

62. I Thought She AND Her Mother...

...both "needed their asses beat".
Our rights to parent with discipline have been taken away, then when children are out of control, either the parents or the schools are blamed.
Of course there is a line between "discipline and abuse", and I do not condone abuse, but I have seen a swat on the bottom have excellent results when children have zero understanding, and I've seen children with parents who never swat a child, completely out of control, totally disrespectful of others or authority, ruined and MISERABLE, before the child reaches 9 years old.
I believe when the gvt began telling us how to raise our children, the gvt was already long overdue for it's own spanking....

Just my opinion based on my knowledge and my life's experiences.
"Flame away"...

[tjdee]

65. I'm actually pretty sure her mother and her were both beat.

From my experience with black parents, as well as single parents, (both of which I am, by the way), I'm about 120% sure her mother has spanked her, and I'm 80% sure the mother was spanked.

Bunch of good it's done, huh?

[thecai]

80. No Offense

I meant "beat" as an expression. I understand what you're saying.

I feel there is a difference between a beating and a spanking. I believe the mother may have been beaten as a child (common practice decades ago) and may have decided to raise her children differently.

But I also feel the first few years of a child's life are most crucial for learning, and when children have no reasoning nor understanding, sometimes a swat or two (after all else fails), teaches children there are limits and boundaries that they cannot be allowed to cross.

But that's just my opinion, based on my knowledge and life experiences.

[UdoKier]

67. I respect those who have a policy not to spank.

I think it's great if they have a way to make it work.

I guess it's the extremists - the ones who say they can spank their kid as much as they like, and the ones who say that nobody should ever ever ever lay a finger on a child, that bug me.

There used to be this thing called good judgment. Has everyone forgotten how to use it?

[kerry-is-my-prez]

70. Punishment is the least effective way to change behavior & can be a reward

There are people who are so desperate for attention that even punishment and negative reactions are a sort of reward to them. Often - this is the only way for them to get attention.

[UdoKier]

76. True. That seemed to be the case in the video.

The kid was getting off on the teacher's toothless admonitions.

She could have accomplished more by putting the girl in a room with no stuff and ignoring her.

[redqueen]

75. I hope so.

No flames, but honestly hitting children doesn't teach them anything. It's rule by force.

There are other ways to calm children down.

It seems adults are always losing control, and when nothing else they've tried yet works, they result to actual physical violence. It's barbaric and tragic, IMO.

[NNN0LHI]

81. I suspect some fucking idiot at the school tried that idea...

...and that is what started all the shit to begin with if the truth be known.

Don

[American Tragedy]

83. I seriously doubt that.

Teachers and administrators are too petrified to touch students, much less physically chastise them. The entire reason that the police were called was because of the obvious litigious concerns.

[ulysses]

82. my parents spanked me

VERY rarely, but you'd better believe I remember every last time to this day. It definitely has its place.

[digno dave]

84. What's the over/under on the # of years this girl will serve in the can?

I am putting it at 4.

[MXMLLN]

87. She definitely is in need of something ... but it may not be paddling.

I agree with a number of others here.

This doesn't seem to be simply a case of a child not being paddled.

There is, undoubtably, a deeper cause for her misbehaviour.

What the child really needs is for someone to determine what is going wrong in this child's life.

[MsTryska]

88. nah - i wouldn't say a paddling -

simply because i don't think it would have done a thing for her.



i lean towards a mother who's willing to accept something is wrong with her child - a good counselor, a change of diet, and possibly medication.

[_TJ_]

89. a PADDLING no less!

That would get you thrown in jail even in my backwards-ass country!

[radwriter0555]

99. No one has the right to abuse a child for any reason.

End of discussion.