MSNBC taking poll on "intelligent Design" ---Come on all VOTE!!!

[demo dutch]

Right now it's 54%/46% favoring evolution, I am shocked it's this CLOSE!!!!

Link
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7739061/

Nominate? so more people see it?

[goodboy]

1. done. kick

[Speck Tater]

2. Done

[Worst Username Ever]

3. It is a push poll

They make the first answer the most favorable. Truly, the way it is asked, I am tempted to vote that "teachings should reflect widespread beliefs."

[tridim]

8. Yep.. I can't vote because both answers are technically correct

It's not like the results matter anyway. Typcial MSM bullshit.

[demo dutch]

49. The results could be used by the righties!!

[Telly Savalas]

60. Let 'em try.

"We should take the results of cheesy online polls into consideration when building our schools' curriculums" isn't exactly an argument which helps build credibility.

[Charles19]

11. I agree it is not being asked correctly

The theory of evolution is not a scientific principle like say the standard model in physics. It is an observation of how life interacts with the environment and the environment interacts with life. It is simply describing how the life in God's system works. For anyone who jumps to throwing God out the window because the words "scientific theory" are appended to Darwin's observations on nature is really easily led astray.

The way this question is asked obfuscates those realities.

The real questions should be:

a) God doesn't exist and life just happened by pure chance and evolution is the observation of how life got to where it did today.

b) God exists and evolution is a good description of how life works in God's creation

[KansDem]

20. It's a poorly-worded poll...

The heading says, "Evolution vs. intelligent design," yet "intelligent design" can not be found anywhere in the questions. I have no problem with criticizing the theory of evolution, if its done within the framework of scientific principles. Such debate should be welcomed. A theory is not considered "scientific" if there is no possibility it can be proved false, therefore the discussion of "intelligent design," or "creationism," or "God" can never be part of a scientific curriculum. Their existence depends on faith and this is why their discussion should be left in the church, temple, mosque, etc.

This kind of crappy polling only muddles the arguments of evolution vs. religion.

[Roland99]

4. Do you wonder if some of these sites filter referrals from DU

or other politically-charged sites?

I usually open a new browser (Google being the home page) and paste the URL into the address bar.



CRIPES!!!


Should public schools teach students about counterarguments to the theory of evolution? * 13408 responses


Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.
46%

No; evolution is a well-established scientific principle.
54%



Fucking idiots out there!

[demo dutch]

7. Good idea. Can you believe it's actually this close?! Insane!!!

[Mizmoon]

5. kick with stunned shock ...

almost half the people polled give more credence to creationism than evolution ... I'm greatly saddened.

[Moderate Dem]

6. Many scientists believe

That both can be true at the same time.

[wryter2000]

10. Many scientists belive in creationism? n/t

n/t

[Moderate Dem]

16. Many scientists who are Christian

do not necessarily think that the theory of evolution is anti-God. Many feel that God could have created evolution as an orderly way to create the Earth.

[wryter2000]

21. Okay

I was pretty sure I didn't understand what you were saying.

Sure, lots of scientists are people of faith and they see no contradiction between God and evolution. I agree with that, although I'm an agnostic. But creationism (and it's latest incarnation, intelligent design) is a different thing, and I don't think you can find many scientists who agree with that. In fact, most scientists see it as a deliberate attempt to replace science with religion. And specifically a certain type of Christianity.

[demo dutch]

26. Yes and that is an entirely different thing

[MarianJack]

31. This is a Belief that many Christians,...

...including ChicaAzul and I, hold.

We, who have actually read the Bible (instead of letting a TV preacher tell us what to think) know that much of the Old Testament is metaphorical.

There is room (for a thinking person) for evolution in Genesis.

Of course, the MSM would NEVER actually go for the notion that there are Christians who aren't of the dobson, robertson, falwell ilk.

[prodigal_green]

62. The Catholic church

accepts the Evolution.

[MarianJack]

95. Yes We Do.

This is one of the reasons I believe that Benedict, while far from perfect, may not be th pat robertson clone that they hope for.

Of course, taking office at 78, everyone,including Benedict, knows that he is a short termer!

[KittyWampus]

54. Not Creationism Per Se But ID. Which Does NOT Posit A Creator.

Though some theorists and scientists mistakenly go to far and assert same.

[K-W]

82. That doesnt make creationism science. EOM

[demo dutch]

17. Many organizations, including religions and the U.S. Supreme Court,

have stated that Scientific Creationism is religion.

[wryter2000]

22. And it is

Scientific creationism is also a contradiction in terms.

[demo dutch]

29. It's all in a name, just like "Intelligent Design" to fool the masses

call it what it is "Creationism"

[dhinojosa]

34. What is with the wording of this poll? F**K!

"Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs."

Let the poll decide if many Americans doubt evolution.

Dumbasses.

[understandinglife]

92. Who are these "many scientists"? Let's see some references. (nt)

www.missionnotaccomplished.us

[Terran]

115. That's not the point, Sparky.

I myself believe that some version of intelligent design is a distinct possibility. But that's my own private theory, based on intuition. There is no science involved. Nothing that is based on faith or intuition should be taught as an alternative to real science in schools. PERIOD.

[wryter2000]

9. Done

But, honestly...when did science become a popularity contest? :mad:

(Want to nominate this for greatest so more folks see it?)

[demo dutch]

18. Yes please, I can't

[Gothmog]

12. done

54% for evolution

[Bragi]

13. Please note...

This isn't a test of public opinion on evolution versus ID, it's a test of the relative ability of both sides to quickly mobilize supporters online. My guess is the fundies are better organized online, and more motivated, so their vote here will be out of proportion to public opinion as a whole.

For a baseline on public opinion, Gallup reported as follows last November:

<<Only about a third of Americans believe that Charles Darwin's theory of evolution is a scientific theory that has been well supported by the evidence, while just as many say that it is just one of many theories and has not been supported by the evidence. The rest say they don't know enough to say. Forty-five percent of Americans also believe that God created human beings pretty much in their present form about 10,000 years ago. A third of Americans are biblical literalists who believe that the Bible is the actual word of God and is to be taken literally, word for word.>>

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/login.aspx?ci=14107

- B

[SheepyMcSheepster]

14. done, this is crazy

intelliegent design is not science.........
this is like comparing apples with paperclips...........

[Guckert]

15. Screw those Dino's and cro-magnum man, its the holy light dude. he did it

ALL. he created the entire planet and solar system in 6 days then said "fuck it" and has not done shit with it since. Oh i forgot the bible. since the bible he has not done shit.

[callous taoboy]

19. kick

[Stirk]

23. Sweet zombie Jesus. When did scientific fact become a matter of

public opinion? It's like people don't even understand what objective reality is anymore. Everything is just spin and opinion.

[IChing]

24. Our new $25 million Museum

where you can see dinosaurs and man together made me vote
on this poll.
Please visit this wonderful site on our new science....irony, irony, irony

Our site:http://www.answersingenesis.org/museum/faq.asp

our new exhibit:

[Roland99]

32. That craptastic "museum" is in my home state.

:(


But, it's taking them over 3 years to build it?

:wtf:

[IChing]

38. 2007 maybe

the "scientific" reason they chose your area


Why did you choose the Cincinnati area? (from their site)

About 2/3 of America’s population can drive to Cincinnati in one day! In addition to those 165 million Americans, millions of Canadians in the provinces of Ontario and Quebec can also drive here in one day. Most convenient, the museum will be close to I-75, the busiest north/south interstate in America.

[liam_laddie]

66. It's all about marketing.

IChing is "daid raht." Lotsa interstate traffic passing nearby.
And I think some big fundie sturch(s) either had property or
helped with $$$. Don't say Cincinnati, it's in Kaintukee, after all.
Big embarrassment here on the north shore of the Ohio River.
But the KY Derby this weekend kinda takes the edge off...

Also...very funny remark on the thread that they can't build something in three years when gawd's contract for creating the world spec'd "six days, with penalty clauses." No wonder gawd
was in a hurry; didn't want to lose money on this "earth" project. But he messed up a few thangs. The ancient adage applies -You can have it: 1) fast, 2) cheap or 3) good, but only two on each project.

[Oreo]

45. Wow

Didja know Noah had room for all the dinosaurs on his ark too?

[IChing]

61. I noticed he's white

Just like at the museum

[Imperialism Inc.]

110. Well, they ARE small dinosaurs.

I mean look at it. Noah is taller than all of them. That must be how it was possible. Animals back then were all miniatures! I knew there had to be an answer.

[arikara]

74. What's the significance of all the white critters?

What an odd scene.

[IChing]

75. visit the site

either to have a joke or scare you ,it's in construction and they are painting as they go they painted two mammals so they could show their "progress"

[tex-wyo-dem]

25. Done...

NO! Both questions are NOT correct:

"Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs."

The key word in this poll question is "beliefs." Believe it not, evolution is not a "belief" but a carefully vetted out scientific principle that for all intensive purposes has been proved. It's about as much of a belief as calculus or geometry.

But, maybe these people don't believe geometry is true since the Bible doesn't specifically say "thou shalt apply the principles of geometry to build thy backyard fence."

What these people don't fathom is that, maybe, the Bible was written in simplistic terms for people who have lived ever since the old testament to understand (way, way before science or math was even invented). Yes, I'm implying that both science and the Bible might just agree with one another.

[gauguin57]

27. The only Intelligent Design on MSNBC is Keith Olbermann.

These polls are bullshit.

[demo dutch]

30. Of course they're bullshit, BUT the Righties will use it in their favor!

[Jacobin]

28. "education should express widespread belief????"

WTF is MSNBC smoking?

I thought scientific education was about teaching the scientific method to examine facts and hypothesize about theories, NOT to spew some faith based myths (you can get that in church, ok?). This is absolutely insane.

This country is going downhill very very fast.

[ComerPerro]

58. I will be emailing them very shortly

about this absurd push poll.

[txaslftist]

33. Everlution is bunko.

Sayin' we was all descented from a buncha apes. Everbody with a brane knows we was created by GOD the Lord Jesus.

Jist look at how far we is above the other aminals. It don't make no kinda sense that we was descented from apes, monkeys, arangatangs or any other kind of simbian crittur. If that was the case, how come they don't got no cars and such, and how come they ain't got Jesus?

Cause they's aminals, that's why. We is people, and we is above them on the lofdy binnakles of our higher innillict.

Yew folks need to get eddicated.

[Turn CO Blue]

97. Dern strate! Yew gaht dat raht! We be needin' to

eddicate these here heathens!

[demo dutch]

35. Oh my god it's 45% - 55% Insane!!!

[dhinojosa]

36. What is with the wording of this poll? F**K!

"Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs."

Let the poll decide if many Americans doubt evolution.

Dumbasses.

[progressoid]

44. REALLY poor wording. n/t

[Generic Other]

37. done

:dunce:

[RebelOne]

39. Done.

Unbelieveable. It's dumbfounding to see how many morons there are in this country.

[katinmn]

40. If anyone has any remaining doubts that the corp owned media is

a tool for the RW theocracy, the existence of this poll should dispel those doubts forever.

Should public schools teach students about counterarguments to the theory of evolution? * 15434 responses


Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.
45%

No; evolution is a well-established scientific principle.
55%

[demo dutch]

48. Sure they probably send emails to the "appropriate" groups about the poll

[m_welby]

41. Done ! n/t

[IdaBriggs]

42. Kick. nt

[longship]

43. Polls don't matter

Science isn't determined by public opinion. It doesn't matter how many dumb f*cks there are. If the United States wants to opt out of the biological sciences, that will be US's loss, not science's. In fifty years, when academics in the US have been profoundly effected by a misguided excursion of schools to bend to political and popular will to not teach biology, the US will be a scientific backwater. It'll be what we deserve for letting these knuckleheads take over our country.

But science will go on in spite of the idiocy in the US.

[demo dutch]

47. Agreed but I refuse to live in a country like that!

[Verve]

46. Done. 44% Yes (No to evolution) 56%No (Yes to evolution) n/t

[burn the bush]

50. 56 to 44

[demo dutch]

51. Better but let's facing that's still way to close!

[KittyWampus]

52. The Poll Is Meaningless.Evolution Is Fact & ID & Darwinism Are THEORIES

Both DU and Darwinism are theories which explain HOW evolution occurs.

Thus, the poll reflects the inability to even discuss this subject rationally.

[Caution]

78. ID resembles a theory in exactly *NO WAY WHATSOEVER*

It's a crackpot idea to undermine actual scientific theory and the very word theory itself.

[cruadin]

53. Done---right now it's 56% to 44%.

[Johonny]

55. I don't get 1

Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.


Huh? So now what we educate people is based on popular belief. Many Americans can't identify the vice president. Thus America does not have one. Many Americans think Canada fought in Veitnam with us. Teaching history to reflect widespread beliefs...


The new American education system "And then we attack Iraq to remove the weapons of mass destruction. The weapons were not found, although it's possible they were found. We will keep an open mind on this."

[ComerPerro]

56. Bullshit question. One thing that the flat-earthers have done very well

is control the framing and language around this issue. They have dressed the issue up to make it seem like fairness and tolerance.

"We should let schools be open to all beliefs".

But that's bullshit.

Evolution Theory is scientific doctrine that is open to scrutiny and debate.

However, Intelligent Design does not do this. It simply tries to act as a compromise between Evolution and Creationism. The problem, though, is that it does not allow itself to be critiqued. It exists as a matter of faith alone, and cannot be proved or disproved.

Intellectually, ID is no different than a fable or fairy tale.

This, of course, brings us to the blatant hypocrisy of ID proponents. They say they just want all viewpoints to be heard, in the interest of fairness. Why not open up discussion of every single creation myth ever told, from all religions and customs? That would be fair, wouldn't it? To hear all viewpoints.

But religious doctrine cannot be given the same weight as Scientific Theory in our schools, especially in Science classes. There is no way that ID can be taught without branching into religious discussion.

[Vincardog]

57. yes 44% no 56% now

Should public schools teach students about counterarguments to the theory of evolution? * 19484 responses


Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.
44%

No; evolution is a well-established scientific principle.
56%

[IChing]

59. In logic this called

The logical fallacy of appeal to belief
also called the appeal to the majority,
is an argument that asserts the truth or plausibility of a proposition merely from the fact that it is widely believed.

Just about everyone in Ptolemy's day was convinced that the Sun travelled around the Earth. Therefore, the Sun travelled around the Earth in Ptolemy's day.

There are a few exceptions to this rule--specifically, it is likely to be committed when trying to convince a person that certain widely unpopular beliefs are false. For example:

Throughout history, most people have believed in some sort of God.
Therefore, you should also believe in God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_belief link

[izzybeans]

63. The premise of the poll is hilarious.

The responses basically imply, if you pick "yes, many americans doubt evolution...and should be taught alongside ID", that you ignore the basic mission of the education system because of the ignorance of Americans. Talk about self-defeating.

"AHh Shucks...I don't know no facts, but I sure don't like em, neither. Keep them out of sight or else give me sumpin' I can spit my chaw on along side it."

"Oh okay Mr. Wingnut" said the teacher.
"here we have evolutionary theory which is derived from recordable and observable records. It's called a theory because the covering law model of science does not grasp its complexity. Over here we have the bible and what it says." Take care now.

The poll suggests not educating our citizens because they haven't learned some basic principles about science yet, or refuse to think about them, or have forgotten because of the onslaught of fundie bullshit crapped down their peaknuckleheads.

"Well if you don't believe it prior to learning it I won't teach it. Here go in the corner and read me the Song of Solomon." The teach ends class with a BIG BANG.

[spuddonna]

64. done!

[EvolvedChimp]

65. What a Generation Nap ZzZzZz

Recently there was scandel over bringing school children to see an Imax film about under water volcanoes. The parents demanded the field trip stop because it encouraged the evolution theory. By encouraged they meant displayed cold hard facts explaing how these volcanoes have been there and changed the world since before the Garden of Edan. These conservatives are just dumbing down our children. Why can't they just have faith and not denial.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

90. Beats me - they seem unevolved to me

What up, Bro!

[EvolvedChimp]

98. Well at least the school children didn't crap themselves

Dick!!
but seriously, lies make Baby Jesus cry

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

112. So do bad haircuts!

And lost joints!

[EvolvedChimp]

117. . . .and weddings, Baby Jesus always cries at weddings

Yeah well I've decided I'm going to run away from home with a jar of change but I'm going to bust up some mail boxes first. Your move White

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

118. I ran away from home to GET a jar of change - big difference

[windlight]

67. Thew way the Question and answers

are worded it seems like it would be dumb to vote no. ARG!!

[Zodiak]

68. oh look...

the American Taliban is given more credence by MSGOP....what a shocker!! These MSM news channels seem to want some kind of civil war between regular Americans and the American Taliban.

The belief of many Americans that evolution isn't true has NO BEARING on science, period. Wanna teach a class based on beliefs? Put the kids in front of FOX News and surprisingly belief and opinion is all they will get....and we can call it "Science" class, too.

Honestly...we need to get organized and be willing to divest ourselves of our paychecks in order to win this fight or everything will go to hell in a handbasket (it already has, but it can get worse). ALL science techers should just refuse to teach, followed by all of the rest of the teachers unless the American Taliban can learn to keep their filthy 3000 year old stinking beliefs to themselves.

[Liberal In Texas]

69. Done. Still 44%-yes.... 56%-no

25379 responses

I can't believe there are that many stupid people in the country...oh wait, there must be...shrub is still pres...

[Shallah Kali]

70. It is a widely spread belief that the gov. is covering up aliens @ area 51

So under MSNBC's criteria that should be taught in school :b

[Liberal In Texas]

105. Actually, Shallah...There is probably more science in aliens at Area 51

than that bogus creationism crap.

[Shallah Kali]

108. I have to agree even though I am a theist

Why build a big wide universe and only put life in one spot? All the same I don't want creationism taught in school under any name. Schools are for facts and figures not religion. I do say though if they want to include religion they should teach them all from Atheism to Zoroastrianism.

[jayctravis]

71. Are religion classes teaching theory of relativity?

How about a compromise; keep religion out of Science and offer students an optional comparative religion/philosophy class where this would rightly be debated.

[IChing]

73. They need classes in LOGIC

before they can ever debate. In college, logic was demanded as your first courses, before you got to comparative religion/philosophy debate courses.

The courses in logic take 1 or two semesters.

[jayctravis]

109. I remember learning logic in high school.

I don't remember where...but I think it was part of the math curricula.

Had "Critical Thinking" in college which was a mind-bender.

[freethought]

72. Done! n/t

[David Zephyr]

76. Random and Design Are the Opposite.

You can't have it both ways, even as much as one may want to. So choose.

[AuntiBush]

77. Kick & Vote - It's Close

Should public schools teach students about counterarguments to the theory of evolution? * 33530 responses

Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.
45%

No; evolution is a well-established scientific principle.
55%

[Coexist]

79. done

[Jackpine Radical]

80. Is there an option for unintelligent design?

I personally believe that the world was created by God, but that She is not very bright.

[Imperialism Inc.]

111. LMAO!!

I was having the same thoughts. I mean, what is wrong with this deisgner. She really made some pretty bad mistakes. I mean look at the Vitamin C gene. Even though she had a working copy she put a broken one in several lines of mammals. What is up with that? What good is a broken gene? And what is the deal with the human eye having the optic nerve go right through the middle of the retina giving us a blind spot. I mean, She had the proper design. Used it on cephalopods as a matter of fact. I think we might have to let her go and get a real engineer on the job.

[yorkiemommie1]

81. done

hmmph. evolution? waZZat?

[Avalux]

83. I can't believe it's 45% YES

It could have been worded better - but still. This is disturbing.

[yellerpup]

84. 55%-45% with 38,008 votes

Come on science!

[Avalux]

85. "education should reflect widespread BELIEFS"

Now that is one scary as hell phrase. It took me a couple of minutes to fully realize what it means - science be damned!!

[donheld]

86. Done and done

:bounce::bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[0007]

87. What a screwed up poll question!

Fuck it!!

[bvar22]

88. Couldn't vote. Both are correct.

Evolution should be taught (exclusively) in All Science Classes.

Creationism should be taught in History classes (along with the Scopes Trial), Theology Classes, Psychology Classes, and some Sociology Classes.

Creationism (as a belief system) has had a HUGE impact on our History and Society (still does). In that respect it should be studied (shouldn't take more than 1 class). A HUGE number of people in the World (maybe a majority) believe that some deity directly created the Earth and Everything else. It would be foolish (and dangerous) not to have an educated understanding ( and some tolerance for) All of the Major Religious Dogmas.

Creationism has no place in a Science Classroom.

[The Revolution]

89. Education should reflect widespread beliefs?

Ok, it's a wide spread belief that bush is the worst president this country has ever seen, so that should be taught in schools then, right? But wait, aren't the righties attacking teachers who they even perceive to be making remarks that are critical of bush or the government?

I suppose the poll should read
"education should reflect republican beliefs."

[WillyT]

91. Done !!!

:kick:

[Ian David]

93. Done. 45% in favor of ignorance, 55% in favor of education.

Should public schools teach students about counterarguments to the theory of evolution? * 40891 responses
Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.
45%
No; evolution is a well-established scientific principle.
55%

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7739061

[countingbluecars]

94. Done.

[derby378]

96. The earth isn't round, silly

It's shaped like a burrito!! :silly:

[lildreamer316]

99. Done n/t

[Raksha]

100. Done. It was 56-44% at the time I took the poll.

[Steve L]

101. Done!

[Mr_Spock]

102. 44% defective brained people in this country

Are we the stupidest nation on the planet?

[kliljedahl]

103. Still 44% idiots

Keith’s Barbeque Central

[6000eliot]

104. What the fuck is wrong with people

Are there really that many fucking idiots in this country?

[PowerToThePeople]

107. Looks like it.

I do not like to wish harm to another human being, but sometimes it is very hard not to.

[Coloradan4Truth]

106. Done

Yes; many Americans doubt evolution, and education should reflect widespread beliefs.
45%

No; evolution is a well-established scientific principle.
55%

[Paradise]

113. done. n/t

[SalmonChantedEvening]

114. done!

:kick:

[Jim__]

116. 55 - 45 now - n/t