Ford/GM go to junk, Ldotters blame "commie unions"

[carrowsboy]

http://www.lucianne.com/threads22.asp?artnum=212466

Reply 1 - Posted by: nattering_nabob, 5/5/2005 1:10:21 PM

You can lease a car so cheap these days. Recently they had Saturn IONs for $139 a month for 39 months with nothing down. Some entry-level Cadillac was $299 a month with about $2300 down. Cheep!

The deals are only going to get better as these companies get worse.


Reply 2 - Posted by: pithy_opiner, 5/5/2005 1:12:57 PM

The pensions and health insurance for retirees is killing GM....


Reply 3 - Posted by: jimc8787, 5/5/2005 1:28:51 PM

Good time to pay back the union voters, let them hope the blue commies states can support them. When you use money to support dems you back a loser, losers.


Reply 4 - Posted by: yorkie, 5/5/2005 1:44:32 PM

GM & FORD, enjoy your unions. American auto manufacturers simply can't compete effectively with European and Far Eastern imports. Unions have effectively outsourced the American Automobile industry.


Reply 5 - Posted by: doubting thomas, 5/5/2005 1:52:27 PM

#2 We have to assume that you were either born wealthy, won the lotto, or were a Doctor, Lawyer, Bail Bondsman, or Loan Shark to be so outspoken about pensions and insurance? I would bet my last dollar that you in your financial and lifestyle have taken advantage of some Govermental program or something that downright hard nosed GOPs like Herbert Hoover would consider socialistic. I personally detest Socialists, liberals and a great percentage of Dems, but not quite as much as ignorance in my own party members.


Reply 6 - Posted by: thezapper, 5/5/2005 1:56:11 PM

While I agree that the union commies are big part of the problem, I have to say from my own experience, their cars and SUV's all POS. I want to buy American and keep jobs here but when the work is being done by lazy union auto workers, we get LESS than we pay for. Our 1999 Suburban has been a money pit from day 1. We will never buy one again. Our other car is a Subaru with 25,000 miles and not one single problem. The Suburban had to have a new alternator at 20,000.


Reply 7 - Posted by: bludneyplud, 5/5/2005 2:39:12 PM

For those of you who think unionization is the primary factor contributing to the Big Three's problems, you need to come up to speed on this issue. American auto manufactuerers have a long history of misjudging the market and underestimating the consumer--the companies are jammed up because they made (continue to make) stupid decisions in the marketplace. Hey, unions didn't tell GM or Ford to walk away from the hybrid market. Toyota and BMW have union plants in this country and product quality is great. Gas is hitting $3 a gallon and what are the Big Three making? 13mpg tubs and uninspired fleet cars. It's a repeat of 1973. American carmakers have learned nothing.


Reply 8 - Posted by: Duke of Duval, 5/5/2005 2:58:20 PM

Union stuff if not the only problem with GM and Ford producs' prices. Several of their cars I've had displayed design screwups or oversights suggesting NO ONE EVER design reviewed the designs before starting production. I have seen numerous technical features on these U.S. cars since about 1964 that would never pass muster during a major design review, for instance such as Boeing has when they are about to finalize a new model design. Many things are turned up that get revised before the model "flys" for sale.

Need a simple example? The large Ford and Mercs of the 70s that had their license plates beat up and knocked bacn under the bumper due to the long front and rear overhang of the vehicles with the plates "hanging from the bumpers, even partly below the bumper level." Terrible design. Most of them looked terrible after some use by the customer.


Reply 9 - Posted by: pithy_opiner, 5/5/2005 3:01:14 PM

#5 - I am of modest means....

However, you totally missed the point of my comment...

[Fenris]

1. "The pensions and health insurance for retirees is killing GM.... "

GOD FORBID!

:banghead:

[LSK]

10. uhh, maybe its out of control health care costs????

[Fire Walk With Me]

13. The Bush "solution" to save US business will be to cut health care etc.

and create more cheap labor. Bust the unions! More bonus money for the top 1%!

[Coastie for Truth]

2. Bull Roar

I used to be biased in favor of Ford and GM (and Chrysler, and AMC, and Studebaker-Packard).

My dad had nothing but GM cars from 1927 until he died.

My first car was a GM - and every car after that for twenty seven years was a GM car (I had two Corvairs, great little cars but poorly built), and Chevette (not so good), and three Cavaliers (handled decently - but put together with spit and bailing wire), along with assorted Oldsmobiles.

I went to college on a GM National Merit Scholarship.

I worked for the primary vendor on the GM EV1 for seven years.

I have had nothing but Toyotas for 18 years.

Roger "Squeaky" Smith took a mediocre company (yes, the Roger of Michael Moore's "Roger and Me") -- po'd the dealers, po'd his largest shareholder, po'd the workers, po'd the local communities, and even po'd me. Then Squeaky took what had been a mediocre company, and passed a totally screwed up company to Bill Stemple and Lloyd Reuss - who were good and honest - but not miracle me. Bill and Lloyd were booted out - replaced by Rick Waggoner and Bob Lutz. Lutz is the guy behind the "Harley Earle" ads, killing the EV, and going slow on hybrids.

If Kirk Kerkorian is looking - and the company has reached "junk bond" status -- it is not long for this world.

Blaming the unions. I'd say blame management that didn't give the consumers what they wanted.

Blaming the unions. We have all been hit by run away inflation in health care.

Put the blame where it belongs - grossly incompetent executive management.

[TNOE]

5. Good post

you said "not long for this world"... I guess if an Enron can go bankrupt and screw their loyal employees out of pensions & health care, anybody could - BUT if GM and Ford go the way of Enron?? How on earth could that happen?? That will create a domino effect and there is no way we would not be plunged into a severe depression.

And for all you asses who think this is the Union's fault or a good thing - your neck is sticking out too. The CEO'S ARE TO BLAME and NO ONE ELSE.

[Jensen]

3. It is killing the Airlines too.....

all those benefits and pensions!
The only sacred cows are these companies CEO salaries, pensions and poor judgement.
It makes me wonder who will be able to afford anything including housing....How will they prosper then?

If we stop manufaturing guns and bullets I guess will become a peaceful nation or do we have to ask permission from China before getting into a war???Hmmm:think:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[joefree1]

4. Yeah right, it's the damn Union's fault that gas prices went up

And Ford/GM kept spitting out penis extension gas guzzlers.

My 73 year old Dad just keeps shaking his head and saying, "didn't those corporate crooks learn their lesson from the Gas shortages in the seventies?"

Apparently not Pops.

[BiggJawn]

6. Only Bludneyplud and the Duke understand.

The rest of those dumbasses can only regurgitate what the Oxycontin Kid tells them about "lazy union workers" (like the ones who build Priuses?)

You GM car is a POS and keeps breaking down? don't blame the fucking assembly line worker, unless the bolts loosened up and the damn part fell OFF...
Blame the Engineer, the designer, the BEAN COUNTER, who says "Eh, so what if we have to pay out 10 Million in wrongful death judgements? It's STILL cheaper than doing the job RIGHT the FIRST time..."

The "Big Three" are getting their asses kicked in sales? It's 1973 all over again, only this time they're not whining "But America LOVES Tail-fins!!!" (no, it's "But Murka LOVES big trucks!!!")

I expect they'll trot out some ugly, dangerous stop-gap (like the "Econobox" series of Yugo wannabees) and then snivel that we "evidently don't WANT economical cars" (just like they did in the 70's...)

Stupid. What pisses me off most is the fact that these "Great Minds" in charge of the auto companies make 10X in a YEAR than I'll see in my entire LIFE!

[Debs]

7. How do you like the Moran

who said the US auto industry cant compete with the European auto industry because of unions. As if the European auto industry was NON UNION. Just how stupid can these people get? On second thought dont answer that question, *shudder*

[caty]

8. Do you think that if bush

raised the taxes on the rich and lowered the taxes on the middle and lower class, that maybe we could afford to go out and by cars, electronics, clothing, gas, and food. Bring our jobs back to the states so we can become consumers again and watch the stocks go up in price. This seems like common sense to me. Am I wrong? If I'm right, why don't republicans get it?

[blm]

9. Blame the guys who make 40 thou a year instead of the ones raiding pension

funds and pocketing MILLIONS per year.

Thanks Rush. Thanks complicit theocratic leaders. You dumbed the working man down enough that he'll blame other working men for the acts of the greedy fascists.

[SOS]

12. Sure

Bust the union, abolish health insurance and pay the workers $6 an hour.
Only then will consumers be free to select a GM Denali over a Toyota Camry!
:crazy: