Could Canada going off the religious deep end too?

[PlanetBev]

I'm really afraid that this know-nothing, anti-science, "break down the wall between church and state thing" could spread northward. I'd like to know that this is the once sphere of American influence that will not take hold. Religious fanaticism here seems to be spreading like the latest fad.

What's everybody's take on this?

[candy]

1. There are lots of religious people in Canada,some of them

very conservative. Sure it could spread!

Everything goes in cycles.

[Cleita]

2. I'm sure they are there. Learn a lesson from us and

be ever vigilant that they stay in their churches and out of your government. Unfortunately, we used to consider Jerry Falwell, et al, jokes and never took them seriously. Look at what happened.

[undeterred]

3. I don't know about Canada but I have heard that there are a lot of

parallels in Australia and especially England with what we have here regarding conservative religion and politics.

Check out this article:
http://www.newstatesman.com/200504180017

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. The amount of observant religious people in the UK is much less

According to the British Social Attitudes Survey 2002, 60% are religious, and only 18% of those attend a place of worship at least once a week. I believe the equivalent for the USA is about 50% of the population. So while the money may come in from the USA and Saudi Arabia and get them publicity (and, if we're unlucky, influence over some politicians), the influence over voting can't be as much as in America.

[carpetbagger]

13. I think Australia is the most likely.

Reminds me of Texas. I could elaborate, but I would just be putting words to my feelings.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. Australia is even less religious than the U.K., or so I've heard

:shrug:

[undeterred]

24. But there is a right wing rising, and its tied to the Howard government

If Blair is Bush's poodle, Howard must be his toilet paper.

I found a review of a book on it:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/Reviews/God-under-Howard/2005/02/23/1109046981178.html?oneclick=true

excerpt:
"God Under Howard is a troubling expose of the unheralded, unholy marriage between religious fundamentalism and political expediency that has taken place in Canberra, a marriage that has justified and accelerated increased government intrusion in the lives of individuals while accelerating the pace of economic deregulation.

Maddox identifies the Government's reinforcement of 1950s-style "family values" as a policy clearly acceptable to some conventional church leaders and congregations, as well as to the Pentecostal megachurches. At the same time, however, and less overtly, "Howardism" has adopted the "prosperity gospel" preached by American religious Right protagonists, who ally wealth creation with God's favour, she claims. This is in direct opposition to mainstream church teaching, but legitimises the capitalist "Market God", whose acolytes worship competition as the supreme virtue at every level in the economic arena."

Scary.

[funflower]

22. England has a history of bloody church-state relations.

I've spent a lot of time in the UK, and hardly anyone attends church there (or almost anywhere in Europe or Scandinavia, for that matter). In all of those places, however, people are very aware of the many evils committed in the name of religion prior to about the 19th century.

Canada identifies far more with the UK than does the US, and I doubt many Canadians want their country painted with the same brush as the US.

Don't know much about Australia, but a conservative government did win there recently.

[Warpy]

4. I've said for a long time that your conservatives, especially the

religious/social conservatives, are exactly like ours. They're still out of power in Canada, though, so they're having to lie just like ours did for the years they were out of power here. They have to sound reasonable until they gain power. Then they're free to let you know what lunatics they've been all along.

Look at us as an example of what you need to avoid at all cost. Do NOT ever let these people gain power.

[dlaw]

5. "Could Canada going off the religious deep end too?"

Short answer no.

First it would take Ontario and Quebec to make the leap and that's unlikely. While you could see a more radical move from the west (Alberta) they don't have near enough power to force their views to the majority.

However if the New Conservatives (Reform Party) under Stephen Harper gets in with a majority government you will see a rightward shift. But Harper still is held hostage by the power that Quebec and Ontario have. The Conservatives remember too well their resounding defeat when Canadians threw out the Mulrooney Conservatives a couple of elections ago ( I think they held onto 2 seats)

Stephen Harper (who may win) will try a couple of token giveaways to the west but in the end will have to cave to Ontario (Toronto) / Quebec.

Remember though our Conservatives are not nearly as radical as yours (thank god).

[PlanetBev]

6. Welcome to Democratic Underground, dlaw

and thanks for your input!

[SeveneightyWhoa]

9. I live in Alberta.

I don't think the few wackos here have enough influence to force their views to the majority of Albertans, let alone all of Canada!

[newyawker99]

12. Hi dlaw!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[Spazito]

7. Here are the last Statistics Canada figures on religion

and Canadians:

In 2001, 7 out of every 10 people still identified themselves as either Roman Catholic or Protestant.

Census data showed a continuation of a long-term downward trend in the population who report Protestant denominations. The number of Roman Catholics increased slightly during the 1990s, but their share of the total population fell marginally.

At the same time, the number of Canadians who reported religions such as Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism and Buddhism has increased substantially.

Much of the shift in the nation's religious makeup during the past several decades is the result of the changing sources of immigrants, which has created a more diverse religious profile. As well, many major Protestant denominations that were dominant in the country 70 years ago, such as Anglican and United Church, are declining in numbers, in part because their members are aging and fewer young people are identifying with these denominations.

In addition, far more Canadians reported that they had no religion. This group accounted for 16% of the population in 2001, compared with 12% a decade earlier.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/030513/d030513a.htm

There certainly attempts to 'import' the fundamentalist fury from the States but their effect has been marginal and they seem to be focusing on the pending same-sex legislation.

Being a very multi-cultural country, many religions are present and respected.

[carpetbagger]

8. Doubt it.

1. A secular Quebec provides quite a backstop, almost as if France were to have joined the United States (the populations are about proportional, and France would have about 100 electoral votes).

2. Even if anglophone Canada were exactly like the United States, the difference is it's like the northern United States. If you put Washington, Montata, Minnesota, Illinois, Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Massachusetts together, then of course add France, you've got Canada.

3. Protestant Christians make up a minority in Canada. "protestant" and unspecified "Christians" make up only 31% of the Canadian population, compared with 52% of Americans.

4. Canada sees themselves as a world nation, and between that and their role in the commonwealth, they have a more prominent and probably more numerous community from Asia. If you add up the Jews, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, and Buddhists, it's a sizable number, maybe a little less than 10%.

5. Twice as many Canadians claim to have no religious affiliation than in the United States. The Canadian average is about the same as the average in California.

Those are tough demographics for any right-wing movement to crack.

Beyond the demographic mountain to climb, I'd point out that Canadian citizens would be less likely to grab onto American materialist religion, and they don't have a long history of anti-intellectualism like we do.

[Telly Savalas]

16. Also bear in mind...

that among protestants, the United Church of Canada is the largest denomination. This Church, rather than promoting a rightwing agenda, actively fights for social justice. In particular, they've taken a strong stand in favor of marriage equality.

[carpetbagger]

20. I think denominational liberalism is the weakest protective link.

In the United States, many of our largest denominations make lots of leftist pronouncements. The United Methodist Church, to which Bush and Cheney both belong, holds gay rights should be supported as a matter of social justice, opposed the Iraq war, etc. etc. The mainline denominations have an extremely weak voice in the current age. They make pronouncements, but not even their congregants listen.

Right wing activists could repeat in Canada what they've done in the states, which is to circumvent the denominational system through media, independent churches, and independent organizations. I'd say they're about 40 years behind the states, but it could be done.

Here, we had a spark that lit the Christian right's fuse. It was school desegregation. The religious co-issue was the ban in the early 1960's on school-led prayer. An entire generation of "Christian" schools were founded as a response. While I think the current Canadian debate on gay rights will be a calling card for a Canadian political-religious right, they have neither the infrastructure nor the sense of public outrage that drove the situation in the south of the US.

I think the right could eviscerate over time the ability of the UCC, the Anglicans, and other protestant denominations to hold the stage, but I can't imagine that they would be able to overcome the other factors I mention, the biggest one being demographics. They'd probably get boxed into an ultranationalist corner, and by the time they come to prominence, they'll be outnumbered mightily by French and non-european Canadians.

[funflower]

21. Religious schools have long been very popular in Canada,

and the large majority of fundamentalists in the U.S. still utilize the public schools.

[sweetheart]

10. BC bud "is" the lord's plant

Indeed, i've encountered the "BC" bud cult, and they are very religious
indeed... offering sacrament, spiritual music and peaceful goodwill.

May the peace cult of British Columbia bud take over the world. :-)

[Lisa]

14. I'm hoping that Canada's religious left is still strong enough ...

The United Church (the biggest Protestant denomination in Canada -- includes many Methodists, etc.) was key to organizing the effort to allow US draft resisters entry, back during the Vietnam era.

And it's harder up here to tar leftists with the "godless Commie" label, since many prominent progressives like Tommy Douglas (former Socialist premier of Saskatchewan, and later leader of the NDP) began as preachers or ministers.

A lot of Canadians are suspicious about politicians who start going on about God and a right-wing agenda. For one thing, it sounds (ahem) too American.

[LynnTheDem]

15. No.

Canada, like the UK and Europe, is becoming LESS religious by the year.

The religious nuts are just getting louder.

Edit to add Pew study:

In December 2002 the US-based Pew Research Centre for the People and the Press (PRCPP) published its study of the perception of religion in countries of the world.

It found that 29 percent of Slovaks see religion as very important. Canada, Great Britain, and Italy reached similar results.

Country % of adults for whom religion is important:

Senegal 97
Indonesia 95
Nigeria 92
India 92
Pakistan 91
Ivory Coast 91
Mali 90
Philippines 88
Bangladesh 88
South Africa 87
Kenya 85
Uganda 85
Ghana 84
Tanzania 83
Angola 80
Guatemala 80
Brazil 77
Honduras 72
Peru 69
Bolivia 66
Turkey 65
Venezuela 61
U.S. 59
Mexico 57

A really big gap appears here!

Argentina 39
Poland 36
Ukraine 35
Uzbekistan 35
Great Britain 33
Canada 30
Slovakia 29
Italy 27
South Korea 25
Vietnam 24
Germany 21
Russia 14
Bulgaria 13
Japan 12
France 11
Czech Republic 11

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_impo.htm

http://pewforum.org/docs/print.php?DocID=30

[daleo]

17. It is too cold here.

People who live in cold climates have to be practical, and crackpot religiosity just isn't practical. Warm weather seems to be more conducive to extreme religiosity, perhaps due to the greater potential for overheating of the brain.

I am sort of half kidding.

[carpetbagger]

23. Nope. In the US around 1800-1840, our "Bible Belt" was upstate NY

The evangelists called it the "burned-over district" because it was so heavily covered. The first end-of-the-world sect in the US was there (the Millerites) as were several sprouting new religions. Mormon founder Joseph Smith came from there.

[enigmatic]

19. No

The Fundies in Canada are relegated to the back of CPC's bus; Ted Byfield is getting way up there in years and there doesn't seem to be anybody stepping up to replace him.