Guilty Secret: I Love The FR "Intellegent Design" Threads!

[K8-EEE]

Oh man....the FR science geeks vs. the FR wacky fundies. So fun. Light butter, no salt please.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1407223/posts#comment?q=1

"Intellegent design is based on math and science!"

LOL!!:popcorn:

[aeolian]

1. hehe...it's the truly stupid vs. the deeply misinformed.

and it just gets more absurd as one reads through the responses...

[trotsky]

2. This one wins the "can't buy a clue" award.

explain Phi- if it's all randomn.

2 posted on 05/20/2005 11:25:38 AM PDT by LauraleeBraswell

First, I assume she means "pi" (3.1415926535...).

Second, that kind of reinforces how "randomn" things are, doesn't it? It's an irrational number! If the universe was perfectly designed, wouldn't pi be a nice even fraction, like 3 or 22/7?

[aeolian]

3. I wouldn't even know where to begin correcting these people...

...but I'd probably have to start with simple shapes and colors.

[katinmn]

6. Hilarious, all right. Great comeback to:

To: PatrickHenry

Intelligent Design is based in Science and Math. The Greatest Scientists in the world adhere to ID because they truly understand the complexity.

explain Phi- if it's all randomn.

2 posted on 05/20/2005 11:25:38 AM PDT by LauraleeBraswell (Where were you when Tom Delay demanded justice?!)

[K8-EEE]

7. At Least One Of "Prominent ID Scientists" Is A FULL ON MOONIE...

Rev Moon is one of the HUGE funders of this anti-evolution shit, because his whole "I'm a God" doctrine involves Adam & Eve. Creepy.

[Toots]

12. 22/7 I guess I fall into the ignorant dept but isn't that pi?

:shrug: or was that there to demonstrate other's ignorance in that they didn't know what pi really is? I'm confused........

[trotsky]

19. Just an approximation.

Like using a rounded value of pi like 3.14.

[Toots]

21. I don't think so..Try dividing 22 by 7 and see how approximate it is.

It is one of those numbers that go on forever without repeating.

[aeolian]

27. Uhhh....yeah it "goes on forever," but it still ain't equal to pi

(22/7) - pi = 0.00126448926734961868021375957764...


22/7 is only an approximation of pi to three digits.

[trotsky]

30. Math lesson.

22/7 is *approximately* equal to pi.

Both are irrational, yes. I'm not sure what you think "approximate" is supposed to mean.

[aeolian]

No. 22/7 is not irrational.

Yeah, it "goes on forever," but it can be expressed as a fraction of whole numbers. It is, therefore, by definition, rational.

[trotsky]

38. D'oh, yeah, got tripped up there.

Thanks!

[aeolian]

39. LOL!

Happens to the best of us. Have another.

:toast:

[northzax]

23. it's an approximation of Pi to the hundredth place

Pi is technically the Circumference of a circle/diameter of that circle.

22/7 is 3.14285714... while Pi is 3.14159265

notice also that 22/7 repeats the digits 142857 there is no repetition, beyond the randomly predicted, in Pi.

[The Minus World]

14. Not to be Devil's Advocate, but...

Phi has significance in quantum mechanics.

Would it be a perfidious leap to assume that someone at Free Republic has read a couple of webpages on the subject?

[aeolian]

18. Which phi? The momentun-space wavefunction?

That would be giving them WAAAAYYYY too much credit...

...most can't even seem to comprehend that "Phi" and "Pi" are different letters...so let's go confuse them with "Psi!"

[VTMechEngr]

49. Oh no! Not Psi!

Not more angles of linkages in kinematics.

[trotsky]

20. Based on the rest of what they've posted,

I assumed they did not mean Phi.

[The Minus World]

36. I believe you may be correct.

I read the thread there, and there was more bashing of Tom Tomorrow than there was concentrated cosmological colloquy.

[uppityperson]

26. "Phi" is real, the Golden Section, link here

While it is fun to believe that opposite (non) thinkers are just stupid, phi is as real as pi. I think it got mention in some top-pop book recently so people have heard of it (pronounced fee). Here's a webpage and the first bit of info from them.
http://www.mcs.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/R.Knott/Fibonacci/phi.html
What is the golden section (or Phi)?
We will call the Golden Ratio (or Golden number) after a greek letter,Phi () here, although some writers and mathematicians use another Greek letter, tau (). Also, we shall use phi (note the lower case p) for a closely related value.
A simple definition of Phi
There are just two numbers that remain the same when they are squared namely 0 and 1. Other numbers get bigger and some get smaller when we square them:
Squares that are bigger Squares that are smaller
22 is 4 1/2=0·5 and 0·52 is 0·25=1/4
32 is 9 1/5=0·2 and 0·22 is 0·04=1/25
102 is 100 1/10=0·1 and 0·12 is 0·01=1/100

One definition of Phi (the golden section number) is that
to square it you just add 1
or, in mathematics:
Phi2 = Phi + 1
In fact, there are two numbers with this property, one is Phi and another is closely related to it when we write out some of its decimal places.
Here is a mathematical derivation (or proof) of the two values. You can skip over this to the answers at the foot of this paragraph if you like.
Multiplying both sides by Phi gives a quadratic equation:

Phi2 = Phi + 1 or
Phi2 – Phi – 1 = 0
We can solve this quadratic equation to find two possible values for Phi as follows:


First note that (Phi – 1/2)2 = Phi2 – Phi + 1/4
Using this we can write Phi2 – Phi – 1 as (Phi – 1/2)2 – 5/4
and since Phi2 – Phi – 1 = 0 then (Phi – 1/2)2 must equal 5/4
Taking square-roots gives (Phi – 1/2) = +(5/4) or –(5/4).
so Phi = 1/2 + (5/4) or 1/2 – (5/4).
We can simplify this by noting that (5/4) = 5/4 = 5/2
The two values of Phi are therefore:
1/2 + 5/2 and 1/2 – 5/2
Use your calculator to see that the values of these two numbers are 1·6180339887... and –0·6180339887...
Did you notice that their decimal parts are identical?
We will name the first value Phi and the second – phi using the first letter to tell us if we want the bigger value (Phi) 1·618... or the smaller one (phi) 0·618... .
Note that here and throughout this site I use Phi and phi for the positive quantities 1.618... and 0.618... so that the roots of the quadratic equation are Phi and -phi.

Note that Phi is just 1+phi. As a little practice at algebra, use the expressions above to show that phi times Phi is exactly 1. Here is a summary of what we have found already that we will find useful in what follows:

Phi phi = 1 Phi - phi = 1 Phi + phi = 5
Phi = 1.6180339.. phi = 0.6180339..
Phi = 1 + phi phi = Phi – 1
Phi = 1/phi phi = 1/Phi
Phi2 = Phi + 1 (-phi)2 = -phi + 1 or phi2 = 1 – phi
Phi = (5 + 1)/2 phi = (5 – 1)/2

[uppityperson]

31. Phi to 200 places here, with spaces

1·61803 39887 49894 84820 45868 34365 63811 77203 09179 80576
28621 35448 62270 52604 62818 90244 97072 07204 18939 11374
84754 08807 53868 91752 12663 38622 23536 93179 31800 60766
72635 44333 89086 59593 95829 05638 32266 13199 28290 26788
06752 08766 89250 17116 96207 03222 10432 16269 54862 62963
13614 43814 97587 01220 34080 58879 54454 74924 61856 95364
86444 92410 44320 77134 49470 49565 84678 85098 74339 44221
25448 77066 47809 15884 60749 98871 24007 65217 05751 79788
34166 25624 94075 89069 70400 02812 10427 62177 11177 78053
15317 14101 17046 66599 14669 79873 17613 56006 70874 80710
13179 52368 94275 21948 43530 56783 00228 78569 97829 77834
78458 78228 91109 76250 03026 96156 17002 50464 33824 37764
86102 83831 26833 03724 29267 52631 16533 92473 16711 12115
88186 38513 31620 38400 52221 65791 28667 52946 54906 81131
71599 34323 59734 94985 09040 94762 13222 98101 72610 70596
11645 62990 98162 90555 20852 47903 52406 02017 27997 47175
34277 75927 78625 61943 20827 50513 12181 56285 51222 48093
94712 34145 17022 37358 05772 78616 00868 83829 52304 59264
78780 17889 92199 02707 76903 89532 19681 98615 14378 03149
97411 06926 08867 42962 26757 56052 31727 77520 35361 39362

10767 38937 64556 06060 59216 58946 67595 51900 40055 59089
50229 53094 23124 82355 21221 24154 44006 47034 05657 34797
66397 23949 49946 58457 88730 39623 09037 50339 93856 21024
23690 25138 68041 45779 95698 12244 57471 78034 17312 64532
20416 39723 21340 44449 48730 23154 17676 89375 21030 68737
88034 41700 93954 40962 79558 98678 72320 95124 26893 55730
97045 09595 68440 17555 19881 92180 20640 52905 51893 49475
92600 73485 22821 01088 19464 45442 22318 89131 92946 89622
00230 14437 70269 92300 78030 85261 18075 45192 88770 50210
96842 49362 71359 25187 60777 88466 58361 50238 91349 33331
22310 53392 32136 24319 26372 89106 70503 39928 22652 63556
20902 97986 42472 75977 25655 08615 48754 35748 26471 81414
51270 00602 38901 62077 73224 49943 53088 99909 50168 03281
12194 32048 19643 87675 86331 47985 71911 39781 53978 07476
15077 22117 50826 94586 39320 45652 09896 98555 67814 10696
83728 84058 74610 33781 05444 39094 36835 83581 38113 11689
93855 57697 54841 49144 53415 09129 54070 05019 47754 86163
07542 26417 29394 68036 73198 05861 83391 83285 99130 39607
20144 55950 44977 92120 76124 78564 59161 60837 05949 87860
06970 18940 98864 00764 43617 09334 17270 91914 33650 13715

[aeolian]

34. Phi, pi, e, square-root of 2...

all nice, irrational numbers. Don't really matter wich one ya choose

:)

[Kipling]

15. Oh dear.

Intelligent Design is based in Science and Math. The Greatest Scientists in the world adhere to ID because they truly understand the complexity.
explain Phi - if it's all randomn

i don't Think Anything I could say could make this Look More stupid

[Caution]

29. Actually this is a reference to The DaVinci Code and Phi being the "Golden

Ratio" It's fairly standard conspiracy theorist crap.

It's a pretty interesting phenomenon, but it certainly doesn't expose anything that might be "divine" and certainly has very little to do with Intelligent Design arguments. (I refuse to refer to ID as a "theory" because it isn't one).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio

for more info on Phi.

[centristo]

33. actually....

phi has to do with the Golden Ratio/Divine Proportion and the Fibonacci Sequence. I guess that FR poster knows math and has read the Da Vinci Code.

This guy was probably NOT talking about Pi. Rather Phi, which does have many mysterious qualities to it. This website was pretty interesting:

http://goldennumber.net/neophite.htm

[K8-EEE]

35. Yeah Mystery/Unexplained = GOD DID IT

Wow US Science is going to skyrocket with these people in charge...

[kaygore]

4. It is fun but also sad

I thought that we took religion on faith, that we did not need hard "evidence."

I can only surmise that these people lack faith and so they need to have something tangible to rely on.

There was an interesting article that I read somewhere on how religious artifacts are being forged at such a great rate these days in the Holy Land because the religious right in this country had such a hunger for them.

The religious right claim to be people of faith, but I see them and their need for tangible proof as their being people of LITTLE faith!

[brainshrub]

5. It's like watching the Olympics of stupidity and pseudoscience.

Up until the Schiavo case, I thought science could win them over. But the bottom line is that, for these people anyways, objective truth is deeply political.

That which does not mesh with their belief-system cannot be true.

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

8. I don't know who God is but

He does have a great design department. Roses, fjords, giraffes... just lovely. I gotta hand it to them. There is absolutely no need for a show called "Queer Eye For the Straight Universe."

[K8-EEE]

10. But How "Intellegent" Is It To "Design" Oh Say...Earthquakes?

Did The Intellegent Designer just screw up his calculations on the natural disasters or what. I was right by that 1994 Northridge earthquake and I say: major design flaw there. LOL!

[HEIL PRESIDENT GOD]

17. Yeah...

Though in the case of the Northridge quake S/He might have been commenting on the generally poor human landscape design of the San Fernando Valley... I remember that too, btw, I was in a beach house built on sand and it felt like the BIg Big One. Much stronger than 89 in SF, which I also "survived."

[The Minus World]

24. Metaphysical Dilemma

This is a philosophical dilemma that St. Augustine attempted to tackle, centuries ago. Essentially, the question is - if God is perfect, and he created all things in his perfect image, how could evil exist?

Without throwing my full weight behind his position, I will say that Augustinus' response to that inquiry is something like this: "There is no evil, save for what you perceive to be evil - it is only a noticeable absence of good. In truth, all things happen just as God desires them too, and we cannot, as humans, understand the complexity of his will."

[northzax]

40. ahh, yes, the old "god makes no mistakes" theory

Why, I've heard people say
Why is this tree bent
Why they don't have God enough to know
Thats' the way that it was meant
why is this little baby born
all twisted and out of shape
We're not to question what he does
God makes no mistakes

Why I've heard people say
Why is my child blind
Why is that old drunk still livin
When a daddy like mine is dyin
our blessed father gives us life
has the power to take it away
There's no reason for what he does
God makes no mistakes

Why I've heard people say
God cannot be alive
And all the things people say
Has to be a lie
When they're down and out
And they need a hand
And their very souls at stake
If they'll call on him and just believe
God makes no mistakes

[trotsky]

11. And unneeded organs that get infected, burst, and kill (appendix)

Diseases that not only kill but maim and cause tons of suffering first.
Etc., etc.

"Design" is truly in the eye of the beholder.

[K8-EEE]

22. Maybe The Designer Just Got Distracted...

like the phone rang or something and he was like, oh damn I just sewed up the human race & forgot to 86 the appendix!

[aeolian]

13. LOL!

:rofl:

I wonder how they would react if god turned out to be an interior designer with a lisp!

[candy]

37. What do you mean about an interior designer with a lisp?

What's funny about that? I had a child with a severe lisp.

[aeolian]

45. ...sigh...

ok, wonderful, another general post taken personally.

I was responding to a post which implied that god is a great "designer" because of the fabulous design down here on earth.

I took it into the realm of stereotypes, and imagined god as a fabulously dressed, flamming-gay, interior designed from LA. Boy-howdy would that freak-out the fundies.

flamming gay stereotype implies lisp.

It was a joke.




I have family who are fundies, but this thread doesn't offend me.

[The Minus World]

9. Unintelligent Designed

The uninformed continue to reinvent the wheel, and those people who are perennially captured by mythical thinking tend to be right there leading the cheering section.

Let their conversation continue, and maybe one of them will discover evolution.

[K8-EEE]

16. Well Right On, One Of The Freepers Posted Tom Tomorrow!

Got yelled at cuz TT is 'A DU STYLE NUT!' Ha!! Great cartoon, that one, one of my faves.

[K8-EEE]

42. OhOH!! Who Posted The Tom Tomorrow With BushCo Quotes??

The freepers will take that off -- truth is to them like garlic to a vampire!

[Botany]

25. Hello Dark Ages.

"intelligent design tries to use scientific methods to find evidence of God in nature."

I wonder when they will hear about Gutenberg and his printing press?

BTW Evolution = the change in gene frequency over time.

i.e. Genes are not static and sex shuffles the deck.

It does not say their is a God or their isn't a God.

Darwin was active in the Anglican church. God gave me a brain too.

i wonder after they get science out of science classes what next math
out of math classes?

The debate is like watching a guy pee into a fan and hoping if he pees hard
enough it will get through. Retards!

[dubyaD40web]

28. Oh man, thanks for the laughs!

I love this blurb from the article: "This is bad news for researchers. Unlike 'creation science', which uses the Bible as its guide, intelligent design tries to use scientific methods to find evidence of God in nature."


Scientists come up with theories to explain things, and offer them up to other scientists to try to disprove. The more times the theory stands up to further study, the more solid the theory. If the theory fails even once, it is proven false.

"intelligent design tries to use scientific methods to find evidence of God in nature" - which, almost by definition, means it is not using scientific methods at all.

This leads to two reasons why intelligent design should not be taught in Science class: 1) lack of scientific method and 2) God.

[K8-EEE]

32. OMFG...One Of Them Quotes Thomas Jefferson

Like he a big anti-Darwinist or something...? HELLO....truly Flat Earth Society Time. Although the GWB administration WILL have our science conforming to the highest 1823 standards soon.

[yellowcanine]

41. Me too! I found them enormously entertaining. Plus the guilty pleasure

akin to having an affair. I really must get out more.

[Village Idiot]

43. Great. Thanks for this thread.

"I ask who designed the designer of the designer of the designer of the designer?

Because if there IS a designer there IS a designer of the designer.

FACT!



Now, I've got to go change my pants.

[yellowcanine]

44. Heh. Read this one. Freeper has a sense of humor. Who knew?

explain Phi- if it's all randomn.

Meaningless. Now explain rho. Explain zeta. Continue at your leisure.

12 posted on 05/20/2005 11:31:43 AM PDT by balrog666 (A myth by any other name is still inane.)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies >

[kliljedahl]

46. I got maybe "halfway? " through

excuse me, I have to go take a shower now. Got any disinfectant soap?


Keith’s Barbeque Central

[K8-EEE]

47. FR Girlie Men Deleted Tom Tomorrow

WIMPS!! It was the one with all the BushCo QUOTES that got them...they can't deal with being faced the divine wisdom of their fearless leaders.

[VTMechEngr]

48. My favorite...

To: LauraleeBraswell
explain Phi- if it's all randomn.

Explain your inability to capitalize and spell simple words.

10 posted on 05/20/2005 11:29:32 AM PDT by Archangelsk (Handbasket, hell. Get used to the concept.)

[Terran]

50. I like this one...

I believe in some form of evolution but also believe it is Gods doing.

"In a nut-shell, the arguments against that say why would good set up something without a purpose."

First of all, I love it when people claim to know what god is thinking. And second, um "purpose"? Maybe the "purpose" is to allow speciation, so that life can survive changes in its environment? That ever occur to you?? Oh wait, silly me. The earth is only 6000 years old, and will always be just like it is now. There is no global warming.