OMG! Brilliant solution to the stem cell research impasse!

[Plaid Adder]

My partner was asking where all the frozen embryos in question come from. I explained that they were the 'leftovers' from in vitro fertilization--it's more cost effective to do one harvesting and one fertilization and then ice the extras in case the first shot doesn't work out. Since the extras only become extra once the couple in question has no further use for them, the only thing that's going to happen to these embryos if they *don't* become stem cell research is that they get destroyed, or get kept in a persistent frozen state.

Liza said, "Alternatively, we could propose that the state should take ownership of all such frozen embryos and distribute them to deserving lesbian couples who want to have children."

I about died laughing. I would so love to see this proposal debated on the floor of the Senate. "Sure, we support life," I can hear Frist saying. "But not...I mean...not PERVERT life!"

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[LynzM]

1. Awesome

I love it... I bet the legal implications would be hell, but let's just see them argue against it.

I really don't get that about the current debate. I mean, do they realize what happens to the embryos that don't get used, NOW? It's not like you're creating the situation; in fact, I'd say you're making the best of it.

[Zookeeper]

4. And if it's unethical to use blastocysts destined for the trash..

in research that could cure diseases, why is it ethical for fertility clinics to create embryos at all knowing that there will be "leftovers?" The Right-Wing is so concerned about "the little fetuses" (as some jerk kept calling them) that they are to be protected at all costs, except for the convenience and expense of fertility clinics and their patients.

[Shallah Kali]

19. Oh there are fundies against fertility treatments as well

I remember reading an article stating some of the bush admin.'s goals when they got in which included restricting fertility clinics. They think it is against God's will to have babies with medical help just as they think 'deliberate childlessness' is evil.

Infertility Clinics Draw Pro-Life Christians Into 'Culture of Death'
http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/10/242001f.asp

The image of God has no business in the freezer,” Lahl says. “I believe the embryo is fully a human being made in the image of God,” she says. “That happens at conception.”

SNIP

As Christians we need to start saying no to these technologies,” Lahl says. “We have bought into the world,” she says.

SNIP

“You get into situations where there are no good exits.” Still, Dr. Baggot can understand why Christians are confused about these issues. “This is not as obvious as abortion; this is somewhat more subtle,” he says. “If you take this egg and put it together with that sperm cell then you are personally determining the genetic makeup of this human being,” he says.

“It is supposed to be God reaching down from heaven and performing a miracle in the woman’s body -- it’s not supposed to be manufactured in a laboratory,” he adds. “It’s always God who decides if we get pregnant -- we must begin with submission to God.”

Deliberate Childlessness: Moral Rebellion With a New Face
http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?adate=10/13/2003

[ThunderChild]

6. Fertilization Tax?

Would the State have to condemn the embryos in court first like they have to do before they take someone's property?

Or would the state have to pass a law that made it mandatory that if you elect to have invetro fertilization that the woman has to give up her eggs?

Kind of like a tax.

[Plaid Adder]

8. You realize I wasn't serious, right? n/t

[Up2Late]

2. To late Plaid, * and Rove are way ahead of you, check out the...

WH photo op * had today with the "Snow Flake" Babies, A Christian "Frozen Embryo Adoption" group, who are selling these unwanted embryos to "Christian" families.

Here are two post I just put up a few minutes ago.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1807308&mesg_id=1807308>

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1497549&mesg_id=1497549>

Here's their website:

<http://www.nightlight.org/foundation_description.asp>

[Plaid Adder]

3. Dammit! Foiled again!

"Snow Flake Babies?" These people really are nuts.

Sigh,

The Plaid Adder

[Zookeeper]

9. Bush also bragged that 140 "Snow Flake Babies" have...

been born. That only leaves X-thousand, eight-hundred and sixty unadopted embryos to go. We'd better hustle down to the fertility clinic before they're used for research.:sarcasm:

[Pachamama]

21. Are they all called "Snowflake Babies" because they are so ....

white? :shrug: Just wondering....all the babies being shown in the WH photo op w/ * were all white from what I could tell...same when Tom Delay got up on the House floor during the stem cell research bill debate...behind him were big poster boards with pictures of....you guessed it...white babies...not one single brown or black baby in the collage...

Hey Plaid Adder! I didn't think your post was a joke....I think its an amazing idea. I would love to see a coalition of Lesbian women have a press conference and say that because of the value of life and their desire to have children, they would like to offer their wombs to give these embryos the opportunity to live.

Gawd, I just would want to sit back and watch the Fundies and Fristians heads explode....:popcorn: :nuke: :applause:

[LynzM]

7. WAIT, wait wait

So, it's legal to sell them???

So what happens to the ones that aren't sold? It's ok to dispose of them however that is done, but it's not legal to use them for research, where they could lead to good things for millions of already living people? The mind boggles :crazy:

edited because I didn't totally understand the 'snowflake babies' thing.

[plcdude]

24. slavery

by any other name is still slavery. If they are human and sold arrest those making profits by the selling of other human beings.

[medeak]

10. so that is what the kids were he trotted out today?

was wondering how one goes to "buy" discarded embryos.. lordy.

Isn't cloning just as bad?

btw... thank you Skinner for getting me back on the board!

[Inland]

12. So, create a gay/lesbian group that also seeks adoption

of embryos. Ask Bush to speak, and for tax dollars, and for help spreading the word of available homes.

Of course he won't, because in reality, he would rather see the embryos dead and forgotten. But maybe, just maybe, somebody will allow loving same sex couples to get the baby of their dreams. Win-win, as foar as I can tell.

[Up2Late]

13. I don't think that would go over so well either, this is from their FAQ

"...Can single women adopt through SNOWFLAKES?
Since SNOWFLAKES began in 1997 we have had very few genetic families open to placing with a single mom and they preferred placement with a married couple. Although we do not require that you be married, we feel it only fair to tell you that single women are unlikely to be selected by genetic families for embryo adoption. As a single woman, you will likely have to wait a longer for embryos, than a married couple, and perhaps will not be matched within the time period when you hope to become pregnant...."

Can single women adopt through SNOWFLAKES? In a word, No. It may not say that directly, but that's what they mean.:evilfrown:

[Inland]

14. So screw "Snowflakes". Form another group

and ask for help, access to fertility clinics, fed money, the works.

Either the Bush adminstration is going to say no--which proves that they would rather have these embryos dead than raised by homosexuals--or someone is going to say yes, leading to happy adopting parents.

Looks like a win-win situation to me.

[Up2Late]

16. All I can say is Good Luck. You seem not to understand how bad...

...the actual existence of the "Snow Flakes" sucks. Have you ever tried to teach or even reason with Fundamentalist Christian's about anything involving Gay people?

To me, it looks like the RW Fundies, with the backing of the WH and Republican Hate machine, have staked out, as they say in war, the "High Ground." I don't think they would yield that ground without a Major fight.

Again, Good Luck.

[Inland]

22. Bring the fight on, since it exposes the hypocrisy of

the entire, embryos are precious life theme.

Of course, the very allowance of these embryos to be discarded does the same.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. I think that's sad

So only if you have proof you're a good "Christian" family. What if they never do background checks and all they have to do is prove they go to church? What if they're really an abusive family? But while they're getting babies a single person or same-sex couple couldn't. Disgusting.

[oneold1-4u]

5. take a look at twins! Bush's?

Twins doesn't mean a match! Just suppose a * twin needed a new vital
organ and sister, mom, of dad weren't a match but some stem cell research found one that was, or much closer. Where do you think The * family would wish to be on this one?

[KC21304]

11. Digby's Saturday entry on this is brilliant.

I can't get the pictures to copy so here is the link. Scroll down to Saturday.

http://www.digbysblog.blogspot.com/

[dflprincess]

15. So embryos that are not used or destroyed are kept

in a persistant frozen vegatative state.

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

[tyedyeto]

18. A law should be introduced to that effect after * vetoes the House bill. n

[applegrove]

20. Wow! I think lesbians have many eggs... and it is not that hard to

get sperm really, but for those who want kids who look nothing like either parent.. we have a plan. (I kid)

Great idea. I wonder what would happen if this idea got floated in Freeperville? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.....

[PittLib]

23. A Pennsylvania Rep was quoted as saying ...

that the embryos should be adopted ... perhaps Ms. Melissa Hart will jump on this brilliant solution.