Every Democrat Who Criticized Dean Last Week Should Now Denounce Cheney

[ruggerson]

Every single one of you.

There should be a parade before the microphones and on the talk shows.

Biden, Edwards, Pelosi, etc., EVERY SINGLE LAST ONE OF YOU now owes your party to go out and denounce Cheney for making intemperate, outrageous remarks which demean both the Vice Presidency and the Republican party.

We're watching.

[CatWoman]

1. THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!

I was about to post the same.

I'd also like to see the anti-Dean contingent on this board do the same.

[Kahuna]

21. Cheny's comments are intended to make Dems circle their wagons.

Cheney is wrong. Happy now? But that doesn't absolve Dean's lack of tact in choosing his words.

[Guaranteed]

31. Which would, of course, be the WORST thing we could do. nt

[cestpaspossible]

75. Was Dean elected Chair to be 'tactful'? I think not. nt

[CatWoman]

78. now, McAuliffe!! he was one "tactful" guy!!!

see how far his tactfulness took us??? How could I have been so blind.

[cestpaspossible]

82. Actually, although I'm no Terry M fan,

I would say he used some pretty sharp rhetoric... but the media applied the same standard to him they do to any party chair other than Dean...

[Drewskie]

137. he raised money

He did what the person in that position is supposed to do: raise money. It was up to Kerry and his people to win the election, and they botched it in many respects.

[frankly_fedup2]

80. Plus, aren't the Republicans so proud of Bush because "What you

see is what you get." That he has a simple, plain way of getting his point across honestly?

I look at Dean that way. He is just being honest and stating it plainly so Bush can understand.

There is a huge difference between the two in one way though . . . Dean isn't stupid!

[Blue_In_AK]

110. Yeah, and you can actually understand what Dean says...

....unlike the Chimp.

[frankly_fedup2]

81. We don't need no tact. We need to start a fire under this party and

start bitch slapping the right until they get some sense. I'm fed up with them all. (Didn't mean to offend you, sorry if I did, but we have to fight fire with fire).

[Jim Sagle]

119. Considering what dopes the Pugs are, "dope slapping" might work better.

[K-W]

92. Circiling the wagons is sometimes the best tactic.

Stubbornly refusing to defend yourself because defense is weaker than attack is a good way to get beaten alot.

[XemaSab]

115. Cough, cough, SBVT, cough...

n/t

[CAcyclist]

136. What About Cheney's Lack of Tact?

What Cheney just said was far worse than anything that will EVER come out of Dean's mouth. Cheney is a criminal and he should be in jail. He has no business criticizing our chair.

[CatWoman]

139. yes, I AM happy now

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1851302

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1851021

in other words,

FUCK TACT

[iamjoy]

2. What Did Cheney Do Now? (n/t)

[southernleftylady]

4. thats what im wondering too nt

[Lars39]

6. Here ya go...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1542522&mesg_id=1542522

[helderheid]

7. here

http://www.newsday.com/news/politics/wire/sns-ap-cheney-dean,0,7595636.story?coll=sns-ap-politics-headlines

By Associated Press

June 12, 2005, 12:10 PM EDT

WASHINGTON -- Howard Dean is "over the top," Vice President Dick Cheney says, calling the Democrats' chairman "not the kind of individual you want to have representing your political party."

"I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell," Cheney said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."

Dean was elected governor of Vermont five times between 1992 and 2000. He ran for the 2004 Democratic presidential nomination but closed down his campaign after poor showings in early primaries.
<snip>

[frankly_fedup2]

83. Oh well, that statement proves he didn't lie about NOT telling

Harry Reid to go "Fuck yourself." when he approached him on the Senate floor.

Yeah, Cheney is pure class alright sitting in his little underground bunker running the STILL Shadow Government that we still have 3 years later. Real looker too. Really has the appeal the American People are looking for. Of course, we might see him 3-4 times a year so he can come across as a human being during interviews.

I say Howard Dean could take him in less then 5 minutes.

"POLITICAL CELEBRITY DEATH MATCH" That would be so funny.

[mitchtv]

90. I know he told Pat Leahy to fuck himself

Harry Reid? Not unless this is new.

[XemaSab]

117. Dean was captain

of the wrestling team in high school.

I'd say under 4 minutes and Ol' Cheney's ticker would be having some major issues.

Then Howard could revive him just for the sheer pleasure of grinding him into the mat all over again...

[Warren Stupidity]

99. Note to 'dick'

Howard was elected governor of vermont twice. He was elected head of the DNC. And you are right, you don't want him representing your political party.

Oh, and I forgot: FUCK YOU.

[XemaSab]

116. More than twice

try 5 times.

[Blue_In_AK]

106. Do we know of anybody who loves Dick Cheney?

Out side of **, I mean...

[fob]

147. "Dick" cheney resorts to lecturing Dean through the time honored

tradition of "Mother" Jokes. Nice. I'm so surprised and shocked by his harsh nature, NOT.

[Rose Siding]

10. Here's a link

He bad mouthed Dean on Faux

snip>
"I've never been able to understand his appeal. Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does. He's never won anything, as best I can tell," Cheney said in an interview to be aired Monday on Fox News Channel's "Hannity & Colmes."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050612/ap_on_el_ge/cheney_dean

[CrispyQ]

27. Sheesh! He sounds like a whiny 13 year old.

And they claim the adults were back in charge?

[Knight of Ni]

105. No, whiny 13 year olds are less vindictive and petty!!! (n/m)

[Arugula Latte]

34. Never won anything? How about the governorship, fuckhead.

God I hate that piece of shit Cheney. :mad:

[dissent1977]

39. Not to mention the DNC chairman position

It is not like just anyone can get elected the chairman of a major national political party.

[Hubert Flottz]

67. HD won the respect of a HELL of a lot more people in the US...

than old sore Dick Cheney! You know where you can go Dick!

Lets get Our guys who badmouthed Dr Dean last week over nothing, to talk a little more about all of Cheney's rigged, sweetheart, no bid, cost plus contracts, handed out to his old company shareholders, including himself BTW, at Halliburton!

[bitchkitty]

40. Cheney misspoke -

or he should have qualified his answer - he meant that Dean had never stolen anything, which is their definition of "win".

[MODemocrat]

66. Right! Cheney's never WON anything

He's been selected, but has never had to win anything. He's a loser, big time.

[frankly_fedup2]

3. Spill? (nt)

[wndycty]

5. I won't pass up a chance to bash Cheney. . .

. . .just let me know what he said and I will.

[Lars39]

8. Third time's charm...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1542522&mesg_id=1542522

[CatWoman]

9. Lars39

I like the cut of your jib!!

[Lars39]

16. lol

:)

[AuntPatsy]

11. The silence is deafening........

[CatWoman]

14. ain't it????

[wndycty]

18. Silence. . .LOL

Damn, how old is this story? Give them time, to criticize trickly Dicky for not talking about Dean's momma and not acknowledging that Dean was elected Governor.

[reality based]

12. Either you're with Dean or you're with Cheney on this one

And the media whores need to come to Jesus, too!

[Stirk]

13. I want to see REPUBLICANS get on television and denounce him.

[Kahuna]

15. Denounce Cheney? Have you NOT been paying attention..

for the past five years? :shrug:

[Island Blue]

17. I didn't denounce Dean but ...

Fuck you Dick Chenney.

[AngryWhiteLiberal]

19. Beltway Dems are WORTHLESS PIECES OF SHIT.

We will never regain power with Judas Dems like Biden, Lieberman, Edwards, Ford, etc.

I wouldn't be holding my breath for comments by them against Cheney. Cheney serves the same corporate paymasters.

JB

[Robbien]

20. Cheney just proved Dean's statement was right

Cheney cannot accept anyone who represents the people instead of the big business elite.

Biden go tell the media that, if you have the balls that is. But I believe Biden is too scared to step out of his lobbyists' pocket to say a peep now.

[Fridays Child]

22. Cue the crickets.

Or as my f-i-l used to joke, "And then there was a great silence."

[ruggerson]

28. cue the crickets - rofl n/t

[rateyes]

23. If Cheney's never met anybody who loves..

Howard Dean, then I think all of us ought to call him and introduce ourselves!

[Catrina]

42. *lol*

Yes, let's introduce ourselves to Cheney.

And by saying he never met anyone who loves Dean other than his mother he is proving Dean's point, isn't he? Republicans don't talk to people who don't agree with them, to republicans, such individuals simply don't exist.

It's like when Laura Bush was asked what she thought about the protestors of her husband's policies in London, and she answered 'what protestors, I didn't see any protestors'! Dean is right!

Cheney must be losing his memory. He doesn't remember that Dean was elected Governor of Vermont? Remember when he said he had never met Edwards before? Another example of Repubs not even acknowledging anyone who disagrees with them?

[Firenze777]

51. Don't forget the burkas

Laura went to Afghanistan and later told Leno she didn't see any women in burkas. Could it be because it was all handled so carefully that she could claim a reality that wasn't ever there? Hmmmmmm

[frankly_fedup2]

85. Didn't you see all the security around her? There were like 6 levels of

men in circles around her and they were holding hands so no one could get through. No one could have gotten through her security.

Just goes to show that they that control things make sure there are no protesters even near Bush, also, no one to say anything against Bush, and they make sure the whole crowd loves Bush . . . obviously her husband doesn't want her to appear as LOVED as he is. (GAG).

[XemaSab]

118. Please

the woman's a dim bulb like her husband.

The proof is that they gave her a scarf when she went to Afghanistan that she wore AROUND HER SHOULDERS the whole trip.

Great, the Arab world thinks our first lady's a culturally illiterate whore. Which she is.

[rateyes]

57. It's time for him to come out from

his "undisclosed location," wake up, and smell Dean's coffee, don't you think?

[Cha]

61. Shows what Fucking Losers..

cheney hangs out with!!! GO FUCK YOURSELF, DICK!

[ClintonTyree]

98. Not anyone in HIS circle that is....

meaning; conservative, rich, white, christian fundamentalists. No one else exists as far as the neo-cons are concerned. The rest of us are non-entities in their book. We don't contribute to their campaigns or vote for them, why should WE be represented in any way? :shrug:

[Dangerously Amused]

132. Great Idea!

I think we all SHOULD introduce ourselves, and send Dick a letter or postcard with text to the effect of...

"Dear Mr. Cheney; My name is (_____________), and I LOVE HOWARD DEAN!


Wouldn't that be fun? How many thousands do you suppose he's get? Enough to annoy the hell out of him? I say let's do it! : )

Anybody got his address handy?

[Just Me]

24. They should pounce on Sensenbrenner, too.

Demand that asshole's resignation!!!

[rateyes]

25. And DeLay,..

he's over the top, with his remarks about Dems too!

[reality based]

26. I'm waiting, impatiently . . .

[jobycom]

29. There's no parallel here

Cheney criticized Dean. Dean's comment disparaged a large percentage of the population, in a way that some Democrats feel is exactly the opposite of the point of being a Democrat. So some Democrats spoke up--not a popular thing to do around here, apparently.

Cheney's comments were rude, obnoxious and disgusting, as is everything that traitorous piece of filth says or does, but it was a completely different type of comment. He should be condemned for his remarks, but I don't see why the two events are linked in this post.

[ruggerson]

33. Exactly how did Dean's comments disparage a large percentage

of the population?

And who was disparaged?

[dissent1977]

45. Don't you know, the Republicans are offended by being called Christians

[Cha]

64. Exactly! I know how limpbaugh

listeners misinterpret what Dean says but how do DUers do that?

[frankly_fedup2]

77. Personally, I like to refer to the redneck junkie as Bush's

Limpballs. Hope he takes it personal. I wonder, what church did Limpballs go to this morning?

[ClintonTyree]

101. Our Mother of Perpetual...

Painkillers.

[AuntPatsy]

35. How soon we forget the many remarks Cheney has made against

the Dems as a whole, does the phrase, "Those people of the other faith" ring a bell, just to name one time he disparaged a wide group of people, if it doesn't it is more than likely because that particular quote was ignored by the media and by many high ranking dems who should have been completely outraged but as always, they ignored the smears coming from these unchecked facist pigs against it's own.

[stickdog]

38. Dean said "Repukes are pretty much white Christians."

Also, "many Republicans have never worked an honest day in their lives."

Who exactly did he disparge with these comments other than lazy trust fund Republicans?

[jobycom]

93. This "divide and conquer" shit

is what Reagan did, and it's what made me a Democrat. You can pretend to not get it all you want. Maybe you don't get it, I don't know. But I won't support a "Democrat" who draws lines and furthers stereotypes, even if he wins by doing so. To me, that's a lot more DINO than Lieberman (Not than Zell, though, he's in a plane of Hell all his own).

There is no end in politics, so the end NEVER justifies the means.

Hopefully this is a learning phase for Dean. I noticed his comments lately have attacked the Republican party for its actions, not its identity. I hope he sticks with that, and I'll give him the time to learn. If not, they should can his butt.

That's my opinion, and my belief. Feel free to hold a different one. But mine's not wrong, just because it's going to be unpopular.

[stickdog]

95. It's divide and conquer to suggest that the diversity of Dems is better

than the monolithic sameness of Republicans?

Dean's points were:

1) Diversity is good.
2) Dems are more welcoming of diversity which makes them better than Repukes who are less welcoming.

So Dean says Dems welcome all types, and you counter by saying he's trying to "divide" people?

Sorry, but you're really reaching here.

[jobycom]

130. Seriously, be straight up with me

Do you really not understand the problem with Dean's comments, or are you just defending Dean anyway? I don't know you enough to know.

We weren't talking about what ELSE Dean said, we were talking about one comment. It doesn't matter what Dean's points were, when he started classifying Republican voters in terms of race and religious belief he crossed the line. He can make his points without the stereotyping and generalizations.

How many votes do you think the comments won? How many white Christian southerners did he convince that the Democrats were the party of inclusion? If your answer is some variation of "who cares, we don't need them to win anyway" then you see exactly what I mean by divide-and-conquer. If your answer is some variation of "I'm sure he won some southern voters from the Republicans," then I won't trust your political savvy.

I don't care how good Dean makes his core supporters feel, we need to win votes away from the Republicans, and every comment and action Dean makes needs to be with that in mind, not inflating his own ego by making his followers worship him more. Dean is exceptional when he fights for the issues, when he shows people why we are right and the Republicans are wrong. He needs to not undermine the votes his tenacity will win through stupid, divisive comments.

As for the comment "Sorry, you are reaching here..." Keep your condescension to yourself, or at least prove you understand what I'm saying first.

[stickdog]

133. Even bigots don't like to be called on their bigotry.

Many moderate Republicans are uncomfortable with being the White Power party.

Southern white male bigots are not the fastest growing segment of the voting population, and I'd suggest that they are not the most valuable segment of the population for Democrats to mine for votes. Do Republicans worry about calling liberals communists? Do they worry about calling us the party of welfare cheats? But Dems freak out when Dean says something everyone knows is true about Republican demographics?

Why? Can't we point out Repuke bigotry like they point to Dem "communists" and say, "That's not representative of American"?

[jobycom]

134. Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying Dean should be doing

Dean should be pointing out when Republicans make such bigoted comments. But his "white, Christian" comment wasn't necessary to do that, and Republican sins don't justify our own.

As for the rest, it looks like you're saying that it is "divide and conquer" but that's okay because we are isolating dumb southern rednecks. In that case, we're just fundamentally different. To me, we should be the party who represents all of America, not just enough factions to win us an election. I repeat--that was exactly Reagan's strategy. It's called "divide and conquer" and I won't support a Democrat who does it, either.

[stickdog]

160. If you are dumb enough to take offense at the truth and bigoted enough

to hate diversity, I'd say you aren't very likely to vote Democratic in any case.

Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade and let the chips fall where they may.

[CAcyclist]

141. You are just being a lesser bully

by supporting the greater bullies - Cheney and the rest of the RNC against Dean, because it's less scary for you. Supporting Dean would take courage.

That's what I see; that's my opinion and maybe you ought to think about that.

[jobycom]

142. Oh, yeah, it takes a LOT of courage to support

Dean.

He's pandering to us. Supporting him is easy. Criticizing him is more difficult--you get beat down by people who would otherwise be your allies because they like the smell of blood in the water.

Maybe you should think about that.

I don't even understand the comment about Cheney. Obviously he's against Dean, although right now, he and Rove think Dean is their greatest ally. He may be wrong, but that's what he's thinking.

[CAcyclist]

145. I'll Stand With the Guy Who's Got MY Back

not the one stealing my money and giving it to the obscenely wealthy.

It's about damn time someone pandered to us,too.

[jobycom]

152. Someone who panders doesn't have your back, he just wants your

wallet. If you think Dean doesn't... Well, he's going to have to get the money from somewhere. If he's not going to take corporate money, then he's going to take more from you, and the corporations he has snubbed are going to give that money to the other party, and then you'll have to come up with even more money to overcome their even greater edge. None of us like corporations, but pretending they don't exist won't make them go away. And pretending that Dean didn't just hurt our reputation isn't going to win us more votes. This is a losing strategy.

Fortunately, since then Dean seems to be sticking to fighting Repubs on issues. Maybe he's learned, even if his supporters haven't.

[CAcyclist]

154. Oh, Why Don't We All Kill Ourselves Then, Because It's Hopeless?

Whatever :eyes:

I find that the money I spent on Dean has been about the best investment I ever made and I can't wait to give him more.

[jobycom]

157. No one said hopeless. I said it takes hard work

Not giving up and rolling your eyes. Look, you can't even convince a lifelong Democrat that Dean was right, and I'm predisposed to like anything a liberal Democrat does or says. How do you think you are going to convince Republicans he's right, especially when the media is saying the opposite?

Spend your money how you want. When Dean gets booted or gets it together, it will be put to good use. I only hope Dems don't turn on Dean when he does get it together.

[DebJ]

94. No, he only offended the top 5-10% of the population.

[ClintonTyree]

100. Heaven forbid....

that a Democrat speak the truth about the opposition. :eyes:
What we need is a nice, quiet, respectful leader for our Party that would never do or say anything labeling the neo-cons for what they really are. Let's all play nice and if the opposition should kick the crap out of us, we'll just turn the other cheek because that's the only way the American people will ever respect us.
Yeah, that's the ticket! :puke:

[jobycom]

143. Yeah, you are so right

We are going to win the next election by calling everyone names and getting our minority of voters to vote really, really hard because they really, really like what Dean is saying and want really, really badly to defeat the next Republican.

That's called sarcasm, in case you missed it.

Dean's game is going to kill us. It may make you feel good, but it will not get us votes. Fighting for our issues and our positions would, and Dean does that part well, but all this name-calling shit will bury our party and override any positive things Dean does. AND it's just disgusting. If the Republicans said "the Democrats are the party of blacks, athiests, and former convicts" it would also be true, and easily proven statistically, but it would also be offensive. If you understand why, then you understand why Dean's comments were.

[CAcyclist]

148. Oh, I Don't Know About That

There's an awful lot of former convicts in the Republican Party and there would be a lot more if we went after corporate crime the way we do individuals.

What is offensive about atheists? I'm an atheist.

What's offensive about black people? I'm not black but I consider our far higher percentage of blacks to be an attraction and the lack of blacks in the Green Party always did make me uncomfortable.

You know very well the reason the words white and christian are throwing these people in such a snit is because it's true. And it means that the Republican Party will do things to further the welfare and concerns of white christians and ignore the needs of everybody else - THAT's what it means. It means that the Republicans don't care about minorities or other religions or atheists , for that matter.

[jobycom]

149. Hm

So you're saying you wouldn't be upset if, in a speech critical of the Democratic Party, Dick Cheney, or maybe Rush Limbaugh, dismissed our party by saying it was the party of blacks, atheists (I'm one, too), and convicts (more Republicans SHOULD be in jail but statistically it just isn't even close)? You don't remember the outrage here when Bill Schneider commented that if you discounted the black votes, Bush won Florida by a lot? (Again, a factual statement, but one that created a great deal of anger and outrage around here. In fact, the Freeper defense of the statement was exactly the same as yours--we were just upset because it was true.)

If not, I guess I don't know how to explain it, so there's no real point in me arguing. I'll just say I would consider the comment to be highly divisive, and therefore I consider Dean's comment to be divisive, and if you don't, I guess we are just different types of liberals.

Vive la difference. I'll save my animosity for the criminals in charge. We can duke this one out when we've booted them, I guess. :-)

[CAcyclist]

153. I Like How You Go Off On A Tangent

I'd like to see the Republican Party accuse us of being the party of blacks. That would sure do a lot to boost their minority membership, you think? :eyes: I am not going to comment on the Schneider incident because I prefer to stick to the subject at hand, but you really make me wonder about your motives when you compare my statement to that of a Freeper.

The fact is, many Republicans are moderate and would be a lot more uncomfortable being Republican if they would open their eyes to what the Republican Party REALLY is than to what the RNC propaganda mill and their staged events purport to make the Republican Party APPEAR to be.

Dean is merely tearing the illusions down. It's something that has to be done.

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CAcyclist]

158. I am putting you on Ignore

You are being offensive and deliberately misinterpreting both Dean's and my statements. I have to wonder why.

[gorbal]

30. Yes thank you

I can't help but wonder if Democrats that go out of their way to denounce Dean aren't secret Republicans, because they are doing nothing but hurting the Democrats when they further put the spotlight on every little tiny mistake Dean makes. I swear, it's as if he can't even breath correctly.

I understand if Dean said something REALLY bad, but he has NOT.

The media's absolute joy in highlighting Dean's small mistakes while ignoring republicans GIGANTIC ones is just further proof that some very important people are scares sh*tless of Dean, and that our mainstream media, however it likes to paint itself, is BIASED!

If anyone ever attempts to convince you that the media is unbiased, think of all the horrible things that Republicans have said that have NOT been reported.

[rateyes]

32. One thing I like about Dean's statements...

among many things I like about Dean's statements, is that it calls attention from the media. Everytime he speaks publicly now, he will have a camera in his face to see what he's going to say next. Now, that he has the bully pulpit and open mike, he's going to say things like he said at the DNC meeting this weekend--laying out the Democratic agenda, and telling the world that Democrats want the Democrat leadership to fight as hard as we (edit: the grassroots, base, etc.) are.

[frankly_fedup2]

88. He's a pissed, former front runner for POTUS AND was in the lead

until the media played that screaming over and over. I didn't see anything wrong with his WHOHOO hollering. It was for the excitement, to keep everyone up. He probably would be the sitting president now if that hadn't happened. He probably thinks so himself as well, so you really cannot blame the man for nitpicking on anything those idiots do. I loved the "I hate Republicans and what they stand for." That's pretty much how I feel because they are stupid, ignorant, idiots that only see black or white with their tunnel vision. They love their leader because he speaks as they do. Just watch Washington Journal on CSPAN. You'll get to hear all kinds of rude and crude statements made in very poor English. Oh yeah, they feel they have to holler as well. Why is it okay they can holler but Dean was crucified for it?

[wurzel]

36. The Dean "gaffes" are as manufactured as the Dean "scream".

The media will always find some thing to deflect from the abysmal failure that is the Bush administration. It happens to be Dean today. If not Dean then it would have been something else. We have a country with record deficits, more people without health care, more workers in poverty, and was lied into a bloody war. All brought to us by Republicans. That this media is concentrating on rather innocuous remarks from Dean reveals their real agenda as nothing else could.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rateyes]

41. Tell us what you really think about

Dick and the Repubs! :headbang:

[reality based]

43. Not everyone who voted for Bush is a Republican.

They know that. Not everyone who didn't vote is a Republican. They know that. And they know that Howard Dean didn't mean them when he disparaged Republicans. No apologies needed. Even the Republicans can save themselves: quit being the dishonest, self absorbed, war mongering, greedy bastards that they are. Until then I stand with the late Texas legislator Bill Kugle who chose this epitaph, "He never voted for Republicans and had little to do with them."

[hfojvt]

44. here's the problem with that

Cheney viciously attacked just one person - Howard Dean. Dean has now twice attacked or made snide comments about large groups of voters. It is tempting to bash people who vote Republican, because, after all, WTF were they thinking, but it does not help to win elections, especially in places like Kansas and Nebraska.
Good targets - Republican leaders, Republican shills, Republican policies
Bad targets - Republican rank and file, large demographics

Now Dean, on the other hand, should respond with something like: "According to the Bible, Jesus loves me. Cheney claims to be a man of faith, but he sounds like a clanging cymbal. (Inside joke - Corinthians 13 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.") He also seems very concerned about the mote in my eye, when President Bush's approval rating is (cite current poll data and begin rant about Bush policies)"

[rateyes]

49. Cheney not only attacked Dean with his words...

he visciously attacks the poor and working class with his POLICIES. Shout it out, and don't be ashamed, Dr. Dean!

Edited for typo

[XemaSab]

120. And Dean's mom

Don't forget.

[ruggerson]

52. Not really, Dean represents the Demo party

When Cheney insults him and lies that he never "won" anything, Cheney is insulting Democrats everywhere and specifically the people of Vermont.

Besides, Dean told the truth: Republicans are more than 85% white Christians.

Cheney lied: Dean has been elected 5 times and was just elected to be the leader of the DNC. He has probably "won" more elections than Cheney ever did.

Now, which should the American people respond to, a truthteller or a liar?

[hfojvt]

58. ironically enough

during primary season, DUers and other dems were attacking Vermont - for being too white, and for being too small to matter.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles9/Frank_Dean-Whitey.htm
Also, you are inaccurate there, not lying. Cheney did not lie - he exaggerated. From Star Trek II
Saavik: You lied.
Spock: I exaggerated.

[reality based]

53. When Harry Truman answered the cry "Give 'em hell" with

"I only tell the truth about Republicans and they think it's hell," he was not attacked by Democrats for his language and for talking about whole groups of voters that shouldn't be alienated. He knew he wasn't ever going to get the votes of true Republicans. And you know what? Neither are we. Truman won that election by convincing the voters that he was a fighter who was fighting for something worthwhile. I've not been a Dean supporter but all this "tutu" talk is getting me worked up. Excuse me while I go send in another contribution to the DNC.

[hfojvt]

60. Was Truman giving Republicans hell,

or was that only ELECTED Republicans?

[reality based]

72. He talked about "Republicans"

He was smart enough to know (as we are) that the problem was not just the elected ones but the "forces" that backed the Republican Party. In a long speech he would throw a sop to "many fine people throughout the United States, who from habit or choice are members of the Republican Party." (A luxury difficult to work into remarks in today's sound bite environment.) But then he said, "Now, if you want unity and harmony and sweetness and light in getting more deliveries of the kind I have been describing, just shut your eyes and vote Republican." He could have been subjected to the same criticisms that Dean is getting. There has been a lot of ignoring of context in the attacks on Dean. I can play that game with almost anyone's speeches.

[hfojvt]

74. nobody has shown me any context

where the "white Christians" remark is palatable or helpful. Where is Dean's sop which was cut out of the soundbite? Truman there sounds more like Clinton at the last convention, contrasting the difference between Democratic and Republican policies, and saying to those who consider themselves Republicans - your party does not represent you. Dean seemed to be saying to white Christians that the GOP represents you and the Democrats do not, and will not.

[reality based]

79. Read this

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/06/08/dean.gop.ap/

and this

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/07/MNdean07.TMP

[XemaSab]

121. The audience is the context

He was speaking to a group of minority journalists.

[CAcyclist]

144. 82% of Republicans ARE White Christians

It's the simple truth. If that isn't "pretty much" of the republicans, I don't know what is.

You,too, are just finding it easier to help the bigger bullies harass Dean and in so doing are being a bully yourself, than to stand up for Dean and for your party by defending him.

[CAcyclist]

151. I Disagree With Your Interpretation

"Dean seemed to be saying to white Christians that the GOP represents you and the Democrats do not, and will not."

That may be your opinion, but it's not mine. What Dean is saying is that the if GOP is mostly white christians, then it follows that they are likely to be mainly concerned about issues that are important to white christians and exclude everyone else. And, funny, that's exactly what the Republican Party does.

Dean's comments about the Republican Party do not mean that because the GOP is monlithically white and christian , the Democratic Party is necessarily anti-white and anti-christian. That's a pretty bizarre conclusion to reach, considering that Dean, himself, is white and christian.

It bears reminding people that when the Republican Party complains when the media is supposedly not including the Republican viewpoint, it is the white christian viewpoint they want the quota for. And they are against quotas for anyone else.

[DebJ]

96. thanks for that quote!

[Elidor]

46. Yes sir, Mr. Cheney, we'll rush out & find someone you approve of

What a fuckwit. Yeah, I'm sure Biden and Lieberman will rebuke him publicly. They'll probably call him and tell him they agree with him, the idiots.

[oxbow]

47. Weird. Both Cheney and Shrub have been on Fox News this week!

Methinks theyre a bit spooked about the media rising up against them. They're sticking to safe, neocon-friendly press channels to avoid tricky questions about Iraq, DSM, social security, fixed envrionmental reports, fixed intelligence, etc.

[rateyes]

50. Exactly! n/t

[Dogmudgeon]

48. My Continuing Rant

(Number 31 Or So in a Continuing Series.)

Stop waiting for other people to do what WE should be doing!

The initiative is NOT for the "Beltway Democrats" to take. WE LEAD -- THEY FOLLOW. They are not there to be our surrogate parents, they are our hired/contracted flunkies, sent to Washington to write law and argue cases to enhance our lives.

Pelosi, Biden, Obama, and the rest of the people we regularly hear anguished ranting about are no more than factotums. It is for US to send in angry letters and demand action -- first, of the Executive Branch, then of our representatives. And I don't mean just "take back the streets", I mean citizens' actions of all kinds.

I know, we're halfway there with the citizen activism, but our focus has not moved from our "leaders". We still think that our reps should "grow a spine" or "have balls" or become as enraged as some of us are. What we really need to tell our leaders is that they either do as we demand, or we'll find leaders who will. And the only effective way to do that is to keep in touch with them. Threats and screeds aren't effective, no matter how angry we get; the proverbial iron fist in the velvet glove is the approach we ought to take. That means talking to them nicely, but letting them know we mean business.

Certainly, a lot of us are angry, but the selling-out that goes on comes from a disconnection between US and our representatives. It is not all that difficult to fix, and will pay handsome dividends -- yet it will still require some work. Just helplessly ranting and calling them names won't do a thing. As long as they drift around without direction, they'll act like milksops, and relatively small numbers of rants from DUers will only look like idle complaint. We'll look like hotheads instead of long-suffering employers. And which do you think will be more seriously received?

The job, as always, is up to us. The good ones we'll turn; the bad ones, we'll turn out. But let them lead us as they will? That way lies disaster.

It's time to recruit some already-elected Democrats, and sharpen their fangs before sending them into battle for us.

Thank you for taking the time to read this -- and get your fang-sharpeners ready!

--p!

[Disturbed]

56. "mainstream media, however it likes to paint itself, is BIASED!

Corporate Media is more than "biased", they are complicit with the Bush Regime.

[Dogmudgeon]

70. That's right

And it's all the more reason for direct, person-to-government contact.

Maybe some person-to-media contact is called for, as well. Given a reason with a dollar attached, the media will become much more malleable.

The Corporate Media will sell out their current buyers in a second if they think the money will start coming from a different angle. They won't just criticize Bush, they'll send reporters to his trial at the Hague if they think there's money in it.

Since they have no principles, why not take advantage of it?

Sure, the job won't be easy. My point is simple -- hope is not lost. Personal action is still effective -- especially multiplied by 100 million. Principled political action is never wasted, even if this week's battle plans go awry. The power is ultimately ours, and we should use it.

--p!

[bvar22]

54. Disagree...The Democrats shouldn't even bring it up.....

If asked about this by a CorpoMedia TalkingHead, the Democrats response SHOULD BE:
"Oh, you know the Vice President. He gets alot of stuff wrong.
This is just more of the same. We don't take anything he says seriously anymore"....and then STFU about it.
...CHANGE the subject to current Republican Corruption in Ohio or the recent INCREASE in American casualties in Iraq.

Never go on the DEFENSE. ALWAYS turn every challenge into an attack on the Republican's DISHONESTY, FAILED POLICIES, CORRUPTION, and LACK of MORALITY!

[reality based]

63. Well, to everything there is a season

Dean needs to consider whether there is any political advantage to taking on Cheney for this. I've wondered what the reason for this sudden focus on Dean. Perhaps it's to get a diversion started since the Conyers hearing is beginning to get attention and there is the coming release of the Iraq rape and torture pictures later this month. However, there is another question for Democrats-- whether to give a pass to those Democrats who tried (wittingly or unwittingly) to join a circular firing squad against Dean this past week. On that question DUers should rally around the chairman and tell the principals to take it to a private back room. If they don't I am going to get my checkbook out for some primary races to make an example of a tutu or two.

[bvar22]

69. HEARTILY AGREE!

Those Dems who publicly spoke against the Chairman of the Democratic Party should be taken to the woodshed!!!!
Especially Joe (I get lots of money from MBNA) Biden!!!

I just think that it would not be productive for the Democratic Party to get all outraged and focus on responding to Dick Cheney and lose the proactive "setting the agenda" momentum.

Keep the Republicans responding to us. Keep ATTACKING...not defending.

[CAcyclist]

156. I Think The Republicans Are Nervous About The Amount Of Money

Dean is Raising.

If you will remember, these stories started with the articles about how Dean is not bringing in the money , while the fact is that Dean is actually making record-breaking numbers for an off-election year.

We all can see how the Republicans project - whatever they accuse the opposition of doing, they, themselves, are , in fact, doing. I think, therefore, that if the stories in the news are all about how Dean is NOT making money when we know the truth is that he IS making money, then the Republicans are actually most concerned about how much money he and the DNC are making.

My number two opinion is that they are simply frightened by Dean's effectiveness and want him out and they are trying to revive a sequel to the Dean Scream.

[grace0418]

55. I'm happy to chime in denouncing Cheney. I do every

single day anyway, the fucking bastard. Of course, I didn't criticize Dean in the first place buy hey, why should I have to miss out on the fun of making up new ways to tell Cheney to fuck off? ;)

[ruggerson]

59. "Why is it okay for Cheney to talk about Dean's Mother? -

But it wasn't ok for Kerry to bring up Cheney's daughter?"


I would love to see someone say that, but the Dems in Wash have no clue how to get clever soundbytes on television apparently.

[tx_dem41]

62. Easy answer to your little challenge....

If I had criticized Dean, which I didn't....the response is....

Dick Cheney doesn't represent me. Howard Dean does. Duh.

[davelyoung1]

68. Cheney Shame On You

For Dick Cheney to tell the Democratic Party what to do, is like Bush telling our allies what to do. For to them they want closed town hall meetings with pledges to not be to hard on the Republican Party, by not having any voice to question things. As for Cheyney's example, it shows when after the fuss on TV, he uses a explitive on the congressional floor. I will never see him as a good example but like a cancer on America's future.

[frankly_fedup2]

89. Keep that chain of thought going until the 2006 and 2008 elections . . .

and we will take back control of this country. That is to say, if we still have any part of a decent country left.

WELCOME to DU.

[MODemocrat]

65. I won't be holding my breath for that to happen

Shame on those democratic "leaders" for denouncing one of their own.
I believe old Cheney is deathly afraid of Howard Dean, as he damned well should be. Dean refuses to be a victim of the hot-headed right wingers.
He only speaks the truth; something the Bush administration doesn't
understand.
:puke: Here's to you Mr. Cheney

[kerry-is-my-prez]

71. There are too many IMPORTANT things to be worrying about.

This country and world is going to hell in a handbasket and the Dem Party is now being divided by Dean and anti-Dean factions instead of concentrating on rasing money and going after the Repubs. God knows there are enough issues to go after them about.

Dean's job is to unite and motivate the Party, to raise money and to get more people to join the Party. He is doing none of the above right now.

He needs to stop his habit of sucking all of the oxygen out of the room.

[bvar22]

73. you do know that DEAN has set fundraising records?

What you are referring to is DLC and CorpoMedia propaganda.

The REAL Story is:
"You may have read various stories that Dean isn't doing so well with the party's large-dollar donors. But what these stories studiously avoid mentioning is that the DNC, under Dean's four months of leadership, has raised more money at this point in the election cycle than under any previous chairman, including Terry "Cash Machine" McAuliffe. It seems some people aren't happy that Dean is focusing more on tapping the grassroots than glad-handing the party bigwigs.

http://www.democracyforutah.com/archives/001193.html


Dean has also done MORE to unify the Democratic Party on a grass roots National Level that ANYONE in the Democratic Party in 40 years.

[Cha]

104. You need to pay more attention

to what Dean is doing instead of listening to the rw media/dlc types.

[XemaSab]

122. Pardon?

"Dean's job is to unite and motivate the Party, to raise money and to get more people to join the Party. He is doing none of the above right now."

He's motivated me, and raised 35 bucks from me in the last couple weeks. I say he's doing a great job!

[Gays_R_Family]

76. I won't hold my breath ..

it's a little too obvious and on-the-nose for the DLC goobers to figure out.

Cheney should become a focal point, he's really an easy target.

And ugly too!

[Old and In the Way]

84. Dick Cheney, world-class war profiteer, war monger, and asshole.

Hey Dick, to use the same same phrase you uttered to Senator Leahy in the Capitol Building - "Go Fuck Yourself".

[In Truth We Trust]

86. Impeach DICK TOO!

[XemaSab]

123. Chimpeacheney?

n/t

[hippywife]

87. Screw 'em both!

There are people dying in Iraq and in poverty in America. There are bigger things to be dealing with than their stupid schoolboy antics and name calling. This ignorant rhetoric on both sides accomplishes absolutely nothing.

[chomskysright]

91. when howard is DISSED: WE DONATE TO DNC

however small:

here is what I have sent out:

If you want to stick it to Dick Cheney as associated with his disparaging comments on Howard Dean: "he's over the top....I don't know who likes him...maybe his mother....he's not the kind of person who needs to be the representative for a party..." in USA Today on 6.12.05, then make a small contribution to the Dem Party!

".....Dean's former campaign chairman warns Democrats away from that kind of thinking -- and urges his party to see Dean's frankness as an asset. "Anyone who tries to change Howard and to remake him is making a big mistake," Steven Grossman said. "Time to time, Howard says things that he feels the need to clarify, that he recognizes by definition that it may have been misinterpreted. But at the end of the day, plain speaking, blunt, direct, is such a breath of fresh air in the Democratic Party, that on balance serves this out-of-power party well by his candor." http://archive.salon.com/news/feature/2005/06/07/dean/index.html


I just donated 10 bucks in support of Howard's style.

Here's the site to donate:

https://www.democrats.org/epatriots/give.html?sourcecod...

[janetle]

97. Do the CNN quick vote--NOW

Go to CNN and do the quick vote in the bottom right hand. They are asking whether Dean is helping or hurting.

http://www.cnn.com/

And you are right, I have heard some really nasty things from the republicans about us. I'm still pissed that beginning in the 2000 election, they always refer to us as DemocRAT. They never ever use the word Democratic and they always emphasize the RAT. This was hidden in a campaign commercial in 2000. For example, they say DemocRAT party instead of Democratic Party. Listen sometime carefully to republicans being interviewed.

[bridgit]

102. "Every Democrat Who Criticized Dean Last Week Should..."

start telling it like it is without fear of republican reprisal which they already know will be be coming in spades in any event. republicans bitch & gripe about virtually everything anyway, that is a given, so what is left to lose :shrug: there is far more to be gained by 'speaking truth to power' here read: the tyranny of the majority :thumbsdown:

you're damn skippy we're watching & waiting for dem leadership to pony up front :thumbsup:

let dean be dean

[ruggerson]

129. Exactly, let Dean be Dean

[Chipper Chat]

103. "Yo Mama" Cheney

needs to take a page from bill o'lielly's book and "JUST SHUTTT UPP."
My best friend is a right-wing Republican and he can't stand El-Dicko. Cheney is becoming a huge embarrassment to the GOP.

[XemaSab]

124. I really don't know

how he ever made it to the vice presidency.

The man has NO people skills.

He's just like John Bolton... not someone you want as a public face.

[Democracy White]

107. And the Republicans are whining

about what Dean said?

Geez Cheney sounds like some whiny bitch who doesn't get her own way.

"Dean isn't all that, ok? Only his mother likes him but no one else does. A'iight? He may have like gotten the governor job but he bitched his way to the DNC chair and I think he's too immature for your partay."

Sorry that's all I can come up with.

All I gotta say is FUCK YOU CHENEY! GO HOWARD GO!

Dee

[Cha]

109. And don't forget about the dems

who are whining about what Dean said.

As the op said.."Every Democrat Who Criticized Dean Last Week Should Now Denounce Cheney"

[Thirsty]

108. Obvious response....

Didnt see this mentioned in the first 20 or so responses but it is so obvious. Sounds like he was describing Bush. haha.

[XemaSab]

125. "Only his mommy likes him?"

True dat.

Welcome to DU!

[stevietheman]

111. Proof positive...

that Dean is generally on the right track, and that he found the nerve center (as it were) of the Republican Party. If Dean is good for anything, he's the Dems' guy for going after the Repugs' collective jugular.

As for never having won anything, I guess his repeated elections as Vermont governor count for nothing... and guess his medical degree also is a "loss." Good grief.

[lancdem]

112. Edwards said his comments were taken out of context

and he clarified them. Keep in mind, Cheney's more unpopular than Dean is, LOL.

[Ripley]

113. Really?

I didn't hear that part. Doesn't surprise me, but why can't these guys just try once. Just once dammit to back Dr. Dean up. How hard can it be for you to say you understand AND AGREE WITH what Dean was saying, even tho his up-front blunt manner of speech may sound harsh to some of us.

How hard is that Mr. Edwards?

[reality based]

128. Well at least Dick's comments seemed to have toned

down some Dean bashing. No one really wants to get in bed with Old Snarley, do they? (This is not directed at Edwards who issued his clarification before Cheney's were publicized.)

[mandyky]

114. Dean should suggest Cheney take the advise he gave Leahy

Go fuck yourself! LOL The media would go nuts. Dean doesn't even have to say it, just refer to Cheney's remarks on the Senate floor to Sen Leahy.

[DrZeeLit]

126. Two things... where can i sign the petition and b) don't get distracted!

It's all shit ... they don't care. Look who they send to trash talk Dean...the King O' FU.
Sheesh.
I wonder what they are doing while the t.v. is trained on Cheney.

So, let's roll.
And let's be careful out there.
They are up to something.

Meanwhile.... HEY... Dickless Dems...(biden, lierberman, edwards) get in the ballgame. Or go home. We need a real response, not a polite doormat response.

Howie's my man.
go vermont!

[DeanIsOne]

131. Dean Speaks for Me Petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/Dean/petition.html:D

[liberal-bias]

127. The Brilliance of Howard Dean

and other musings on how Dean's aggressive approach will go farther to beat the neocons than anything anyone else has in mind can be read at:

http://www.liberal-bias.com

[CAcyclist]

135. I emailed the white house

and told Cheney to go fuck himself.

now I want it on a T-shirt or a bumper sticker. Any body making STFU Cheney or Go Fuck Yourself Cheney or Go Cheney Yourself Cheney stuff? I'll buy it!

[rniel]

138. I think you'll be waiting a long time

Hear the crickets churping...

[CAcyclist]

140. My LTTE

Dear Editor,

Dick Cheney sure has some gall criticizing Howard Dean for speaking the truth about the Republican Party. Remember, he's the guy who told another Congressman to "go fuck yourself" on national TV. But that's small potatoes compared to the fact that somehow Halliburton, which had not previously been a Pentagon contractor , suddenly was the recipient of no bid contracts and coincidence of coincidence, Cheney is an ex-CEO of Halliburton.

I'd like to ask Dick Cheney a question. Never mind Dean. Where's the missing 9 billion dollars in Iraq, Cheney?

Sincerely,
Dani

[Sequoia]

146. Cheney, you're so vile and ugly you make the devil look better

by comparison. No one loves you're snarling mug either you ugly old grinch.

[esvhicl]

150. Pro Dean Petition

Please sign and circulate widely

http://www.petitiononline.com/Dean/petition.html

[Larkspur]

159. Biden won't and Steve Bradenton explains why...

http://www.buzzflash.com/bradenton/05/06/bra05033.html