At times I am worried and depressed that we may revisit '72

[MinnFats]

When Nixon and his band of thugs and mobsters fixed the election. They were prepared to go to ANY length to win the election.
As decent as McGovern was, the Nixonites saw him as the most beatable and set about destroying the rest of the Dem. field.

They had virtually unlimited cash and didn't have to account for it. They used it to fund myriad evil and trashed the Constitution to ensure Nixon's re-election.

Did you know that after Arthur Bremer shot George Wallace in Maryland, the Nixonite team started planning to plant McGovern campaign material in his (Bremer's) Milwaukee apartment? But the FBI got there too soon.I think the Bushies would do the same thing, or something as outrageous, if it would help their cause.

I believe the Bushites are capable of practically ANYTHING to get their evil anti-Christ re-elected. And a Bush president, with no fear of facing the voters for re-election, would unleash limitless evil on the world.

Please cheer me up.

[JohnKleeb]

1. You gotta believe, sorry I cant say more I am gonna to bed soon

I should have 4 hours ago :silly:

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. They are

Now here is my opinion of this.

If we loose in '04 say hi to civil war... and I am not
kiding. They have polarized the nation to the point that
we might as well have one.

But is Bush wins, especially through nefarious means,
you can say hi to mister civil war and I do not know if the
country will survive that intact, or this land will now
stand divided.

Look this is not 1972, as most, includnig the Repukes think.

This is 1858, and we all know what happened in 1860.

Teh issue today is not slavery in the sense of the nineteenth
century, but it is the end of the middle class and the American
dream as we know it.

We do stand at a crossroads, and one that comes to this country
about every hundred years or so... the other time, though not
as dramatic, that we went through this was 1900. Back then
McKinley was rejected and the Progresive era began.

And the other era you can compare this to, and yes we came close
to a shooting war was 1800 and what Historians have called
"the second American Revolution". That is why when Dean says this
is a critical juncture for American Democracy he is correct.

All I can say is keep your hopes up, but keep that powder (if
you have it) dry.

[LastRobot]

4. rejected McKinley?

An anarchist shot him. Both sides were horrified that Teddy Roosevelt became President after being McKinley's VP for his short second term. Nobody want TR as President since he seemed to not completely fit in anywhere, did his own thing and could bypass the party machinery (sound like someone?). TR was embraced but McKinley was never rejected.

Had McKinley not been shot, he'd have probably gone down as fairly popular in spite of the damage he was bringing to the country. No idea if TR could have won on his own in 1904, perhaps as sitting VP he could have pulled it off. VP's were still not considered shoe-ins for the nomination. McKinley picked him because some progressive Repubs wanted him. Dems didn't like TR either. He was attacked from all sides.

But I digress because I've worked all night. McKinley was assassinated by a nutty anarchist.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. His policies were rejected as TR

became a very popular presidnet, also his policies
were 180 from McKinnely as he was a progresive.

Sad but true these days bush is actually better
than Chenney.

[bluestateguy]

3. I'll be happy to revist '72 we we can then revisit '74

"I shall resign the presidency, effective noon tomorrow."

[TexasEditor]

6. Right!

Well said!

[TexasEditor]

5. Good grief...

Were you around back then? McGovern's forces took over the party, at the local, state and national levels, the older party members didn't know what hit them. Nixon and his team didn't destroy the other candidates.

Yes, the Nixon team were devious and would stop at nothing to get him reelected, but this isn't 1972. This is NOW and the American people are aware of Bush's actions, the lies that got us into a Vietnam style situation in Iraq, deaths and injuries among the troops, millions of lost jobs, corporate rip offs loss of civil liberties, and no real direction for the country.

Bush will have $200 million to spend, but what will he run on? What accomplishments?

Don't give in to the feelings of "impending doom" that so many suffer from these days.

Turn off the cable "news" and read a book, go for a walk, get into your hobbies, enjoy your life.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. may i sugest

Al Franken, he is great!

Molly Ivins,

There is more...

[MarianJack]

9. You're Right!

I was a 16-17 year old McGovern volunteer in '72. The only place I will disagree with you is in saying that the older party members DID know what to do. They stayed home or voted for nixon. The '72 election was probably not winnable anyway, but we, the McGovern volunteers, were so obnoxious to the party regulars that we probably made the beating worse than it would have been.

This is one reason I will not engage in any candidate bashing of any other D. I am for Kerry, but not against any candidate except pretzel boy :puke:

When we as a party are united, and rethuglican $ be damned, we win more often than not. When we are divided, we almost certainly lose! I will not participate in a circular firing squad. I fear that too many passionate supporters of any specific candidate are.

This is an exceptionaay winnable election if we don't shoot ourselves in the foot!

Any D over any r in '04! :bounce: :kick:

[union_maid]

11. Republicans did in Muskie

Seems to me that '72 was lost before the general. I voted McGovern and liked and admired him, but I've always had this realist streak, even when I was very young. I knew he couldn't win. The country was divided and he didn't speak to enough of it. Muskie was a very popular vice-presidential candidate in '68, polling better than Humphrey IIRC, and might have had a shot. He didn't carry the LBJ taint that Humphrey did. He couldn't stand up to the dirty tricks, though. The Republicans targeted him right out of the box and that's where they won that election. They picked the candidate they wanted to run against.

[MarianJack]

12. Yes!

I remember people saying "Muskie cried and Muskie died!". As a 16 month ago transplant to Maine (from PA), I'm proud to live in the town that Ed Muskie comes from (Waterville).

I see "Muskie Centers" all over the place. Senior citizen centers, etc., I wonder what will be named for pres. moron? Probably something with a moon carved into the door!

[Le Taz Hot]

13. Excellent post, MJ

When we as a party are united, and rethuglican $ be damned, we win more often than not. When we are divided, we almost certainly lose! I will not participate in a circular firing squad. I fear that too many passionate supporters of any specific candidate are.

I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here but, one again, the more we divide ourselves during the primary process, the more difficult it will be to come together to defeat *.

MJ is right. 2004 IS most definitely winnable. Let's make sure the division between us now (an inevitability) isn't a chasm at the end.

Btw, MD, we're about the same age. :hi:

[azrak]

15. I agree

except for the part about Kerry. I like John E

[MnFats]

14. I was around.

they went after the strongest Dem candidates. They derailed the Muskie Campaign. Remember the Canuck letter? It was written in the White House.
They got the Manchester Union Leader to attack Muskie's wife, and it left him with tears in his eyes on a flatbed outside the newspaper, and his campaign came to a grinding halt after that.
Nixon had teams of people doing "push-polling" in key states ... outrageous lies were used.


other than that, i will accept your advice and go for a walk. Thank you.

[DemNoir]

10. Just remember

The 04 election is going to be all about their record. They control everything and have no way to shift blame. How can anyone run on the record they have compiled?

[HFishbine]

16. Might as well

jump.

[chadm]

17. If the Democrats are truly on our side...

then they won't let this happen. They'll fight to the death to win back our country and expose the corruption where it exists. I don't really expect this to be the case, though, and share your concerns.