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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:17 AM
Original message
How many Americans are guilty of THIS
"You voluntarily chose not to question. You voluntarily chose to allow someone else to make your decisions. Then you kind of turned off this logical portion of your mind which people use to make everyday decisions. You stopped using it. And eventually you lost the capability of making decisions."
a survivor from the 1978
Jones town mass suicide

How many of us do what mom and dad say without thinking,do what the pastor/priest says,Do what the boss says,do what we are told by countless people pretending to be bigger better and more virtuous and knowing than they really are?

When will Americans DISOBEY????

DISOBEY and save our own lives,maybe even save the world from the corporate,religious.military symbolic authority wielded so destructively by a million socialized sociopaths that appear so "normal"..who seduce by looking so nice, saying all the right words, appearing the right way with a P.R entourage cleaning up their ugliness and distracting from the truth with smoke and mirrors to hook a populace convinced they alone can't fight the powers that be,can't stop the liars we BELIEVE in, heartless sly,parasites that created our culture for themselves by telling us it was for our good,poisoning us slowly to help us be more healthy,Sending our kids war because they start shit with other countries because these sociopaths want to conquer others and steal,and get off on the death and traumas because they can't feel love or empathy..and only want to WIN and TAKE all. When will more people realize the socialized sociopaths ARE these"authorities"who have honed and designed the big lie of social darwinists called "normal"and sane that sick belief that holds us hostage to obedience and the direction and guidance of"leaders"??That to lead one must have a bullies heart and withstand the bully game as they claw themselves up to the top..

Why not say no more and starve the real beast,the war machine,the theft scam,the corporation dependant upon your willingness to play the game work ,pay and obey.

America needs to DISOBEY AUTHORITY and QUESTION all LEADERS and EXPERTS.. before we become like Jones-town ..Beware the ones who drank the Kool aid who are ready and obedient to their leaders enough to shoot us all because we will not drink the kool aid,we try to flee the cult of symbolic authority or leave the country when we finally see how bad our trust and loyalty and obedience has been used against us..to create another carnage scene and another sociopath has made us suckers and had one last orgasmic orgy of death as he gets off on watching our reactions to betrayal and suffering..watching people jump when he says jump watching people kill when he says kill and die when he commands it.Such is the nature of abuse of trust,when it becomes corrupted power in the hands of authority figures with no conscience but a fake one created by BELIEF instead of by walking the talk..
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RPM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
1. when the fat, dumb happiness ends
and it will.

but they won't rise up until they are homeless, hungry and jobless.

give it 25 years - 10 if oil peaks before 2010
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I heard it is peaking now
or in 2007
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. If oil peaks in 2010?
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 09:35 AM by acmejack
If oil hasn't already , it shall by the end of the decade. Then we will be in for .

I just wonder if and when we are going to make replacement energy a national priority, as the "Moon race" of the 60's was. If we don't, I can easily envision a dark future ahead for the US. At best, blackened everything from use of , or black indeed from a time of artistic and scientific regression and religious repression.

Call me paranoid...
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RPM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. sorry...
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 09:34 AM by RPM
"in" should have been "by"
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
3. I was born questioning and I've never stopped. I'm 64!
I've gotten my butt into hot water for questioning my stupid boss...a principal of my school, but I stood up to his nonsense any way.

I listen to C-span and I hear the opposing views from callers and I wonder if those that differ from mine ever read more than the articles they favor to begin with. I ask myself if I do the same. I try not to do that and hear the other side. How can we all hear the same news and understand it so differently?

Am I just a skeptic? I will not drink the Kool Aid...ever...unless I get to the point that I'm in big time pain. Then I will.
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unrepuke Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. My favorite 2 bumper stickers =
on the left side = "Question Authority"


on the right side = "Why?"
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. Free your mind....

...and your ass will follow.

Freedom is the condition, and then the position, of your ass.

--Funkadelic

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MattSWin Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
7. If people disobey as you're saying...
Won't they just be obeying you :rofl:
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #7
13. Hi MattSWin!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. Well I'm not saying
Who to disobey, or when or how...
So if they don't obey me are they disobeying me? Or if they obey me are they disobeying me?

It's open ended. On purpose

Sometimes obeying if done the right way, is really a form of disobedience.Obeying can destroy a leader sometimes too. Jonestown was destroyed by obedience.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. as a 60's anti-War demonstrator, Civil rights demonstrator..i can say that
it all ended at Kent State.

That was the biggest mind control event of our time before 9/11.

the Feds dressed up as National guard and shot 7 people dead who were not part of a peaceful demonstration.

by murdering people who were not part of a demonstration it created a Mind set that you should not have anything to do with that kind.. you could get killed even being on the same city block with them around.

there was not investigation, it was made very clear by the spin that the day of the demonstration WAS OVER..

Up until then the actions of the establishment only fueled the demonstrators resolve... but something happened at Kent State that let the air out of the balloon ... and it has never held air again.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. You're right and wrong.
I think Kent State made everyone realize how serious the government was/is and it seemed to have green lighted increased harshness in the authorities responses everywhere else too. The DNC in Chicago, etc.

I remember a couple of big protests here (Austin) later than the shootings.
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. they all went the way of the Buffalo.. where are they now,,??
there were a few stragglers, where are they now?? the elections things were not demonstrations.. they were Parades they let us be in .
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
9. Good question.
And a key point: expecting "leaders" to do for us what we should be doing for ourselves is the exact opposite of democracy. Gandhi said that it is beneath human dignity to become a mere cog in the machine.

Good post!
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A Brand New World Donating Member (803 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. I ran across a huge sign that someone had painted and put in their yard
in west central Ohio (prime Repub area) that stated:

"Being patriotic does not mean blindly following those who lead."

I was thrilled to see it this past weekend. Sorry I do not have a picture - I did not have a camera with me. And I was going camping so it's too far to go back and take one now.

But the saying is so appropriate and I wish that the rest of Ohio would follow.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. What amazes me is how INSIDIOUS it is
I mean think about how authorities make so many decisions and we never get to discuss it..

Prices..why is milk set at such and such price yet we never see the value of it..howcome the state can seize your home for a shopping mall,
how come you can't build a cobb house that will last 200 years but you got to do it by cutting down trees? How come we eat frozen vegetables?
How come we have to mow lawns or dress all the same way pants shirts or dresses? How come we don't create our own styles?
Who says we have to accept all this pollution in our environment or our bodies because you can't shut down a corporation?
Who says we need to pay landlords or we must earn money or have a market system ? Who said we MUST have these things?
Who decided we must PAY to exist on an Earth that grows food for FREE even without farming it?Has soil sand clay and wood to build homes that grows for FREE...
Who demands every baby has to be born?
Why should anyone submit to anyone else without a valid reason?
Who says we need any of this shit?
Who says what success is and why do we listen to them?
Why go to church?
Why mow a lawn?
Why use deodorants we could just wash our pits more often?
Women why should we cover up our chests and wear bras?
Who says we got to live the same way as our parents did?
Who says all progress and increasing complexity in technology or civilization is worth the effort?
Who says God exists or is a certain way?Why should we trust THEIR opinions why not form OUR OWN?
Who says society can't be done another way?
Why should men be men and women be women if they don't want to be?
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
12. But electing someone else to make decisions is the basis of any republic
Edited on Sun Jul-17-05 10:00 AM by Selatius
You elect someone ELSE to MAKE the DECISIONS for you. If you don't like the choices they make, then you can do it repeatedly and choose someone else again who may or may not make decisions for the good of all.

The argument against this way of governance I've come across is this:

"Why should we choose someone else to make decisions for us that we, ourselves, have always had the power to do together?"

The answer I see most often in response to this is "convenience."

While this is true in a conventional sense, the point of the matter is that when you do something out of simple convenience as opposed to doing it because of responsibility for your own life, you run into situations where you trust people who don't give one damn about you.

You trust people by voting for them, and when they turn around and sell you out, what do you do? What do you fucking do? You turn around and do it over again! And then you hope you don't get screwed over again! Does this NOT strike anyone as just a tiny little bit absurd? It is a statistical certainty that the more elections you participate in, the greater your chances of electing someone who will screw you over.

I was always an advocate of a more direct form of democracy, but that's just me, and people keep saying people are too stupid to do it themselves like assuming people don't know the garbage, the sewer, the water, or the power are issues that need to be handled by competent individuals on such matters. It's elitist bullshit. You take responsibility for your own life together with your neighbors in a collective fashion DIRECTLY. The only reason why this elitist argument even works is because we fail to educate each other (No, we depend on the damnable corporate news media to educate us!), and as a result, we have to depend on someone else to do it for us because we've been filled up with this useless garbage from them. You become dependent upon the abusive husband because he is the one who brings home the bacon as a result.

Not only do I advocate more direct forms of governance, I wouldn't advocate it if I did not take responsibility and also advocated education and direct popular organization as the foundation on which to build. If the Spanish people could do it during their Spanish Civil War, in the middle of a god damn war zone, we, as well as any group of people on the planet, could do it as well.

OK, if you want a more direct form of democracy, here's a crude model:

Take a town of 16,000, for instance. Instead of having a full-time city council of, say, less than 20 individuals representing that town responsible for the water, the sewage, and other city services, do it directly. Take that town, junk the city council, and divide it up into units of, say, no more than 500 individuals maximum. Each unit will meet only once each week (for only a couple hours or even less) and will be made up of citizens. (This will be a part-time job instead; many hands make light work) They, themselves, will decide what needs to be done as far as services go. They will directly decide their own affairs and will appoint people who answer to them directly, not to some city council person who may or may not be corrupt. Congratulations, you've set up a system where citizens have decision-making power, not someone else.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know engineers and such competent of dealing with the water system should be appointed to oversee the water utilities, as well as individuals competent in handling power, the local school, sewage, etc. Voila, you've just transitioned to a more direct form of decision-making, and you did it by keeping the folks who know how the utilities work in the same place. You've just ensured basic services as a result.

Now your next step is connecting with other communities who have done the same thing and forming a larger coalition. The more people join, the better your chances of survival, and you will have wider access to individuals skilled in various trades. You steer the wheel. You don't want to handle that responsibility? Then stay in your abusive relationship with your government.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Give me convienence
Or give me death is the credo for today it seems.

Convienence is only so important when you are under the illusion you have no TIME to work it out and lack tyhe negotiation skill to do so. Our culturte is so atomized I wonder if thie game will kill us all before we wake up and realisze we helped build the psychological cage called civilization bar by bar that stifles us day by day..


"To the size of cities there is a limit as is the case with everything, with plants, animals, tools; because none of these can retain its natural power if it is too large or too small, for it then loses its nature or it is spoilt" (Aristotle, Politics).

http://ranprieur.com/essays/21stories.html
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-17-05 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
17. They've got everyone running around trying to keep food on
their "families" and a roof over their heads. Like that woman at Bush's* town Hall Meeting in 2004 that had 2 1/2 jobs trying to make ends meet. That's ideal for these dictators because people are too busy and tired to question and read the wealth of material out there and dig through the latest missing white girl distraction.
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