Saying "Oopsie, I'm sorry I helped start the Iraq War" is not enough.

[barbaraann]

I propose that every single person who helped start this unnecessary war go through the process of Restorative Justice. Restorative Justice is currently a Criminal Justice program but I think it should be applied to government/politics/media as well. I don't think we will ever be able to recover from the Bush Administration without something like this.

"Restorative programmes are characterized by four key values:

1. Encounter: Create opportunities for victims, offenders and community members who want to do so to meet to discuss the crime and its aftermath
2. Amends: Expect offenders to take steps to repair the harm they have caused
3. Reintegration: Seek to restore victims and offenders to whole, contributing members of society
4. Inclusion: Provide opportunities for parties with a stake in a specific crime to participate in its resolution"
http://www.restorativejustice.org/intro


People like John Breaux need to apologize *in person* to the people they hurt and work to restore our society to peace and justice.
http://www.restorativejustice.org/

[jsamuel]

1. true, neither is saying "I told you so"

just saying

[BillZBubb]

2. You are right.

We should say "I told you so you friggin idiot!"

[barbaraann]

4. The reality is that we who opposed the war failed to stop it.

So "I told you so" isn't relevant or helpful. We have to work to be sure our system functions better in the future and I personally am doing just that as much as I can.

[maxsolomon]

15. please point out where peaceful opposition has stopped a war

from STARTING.

never.

[barbaraann]

17. Well, we need to try to find ways to do that or we are doomed to

perpetual war. I think that war profiteering and not prostitution is the "oldest profession" and its the scourge of humanity.

I'm not saying it will be easy.

[maxsolomon]

20. we agree

i grow ever more cynical that it is POSSIBLE.

humans are essentially easily fooled primates with little generational memory.

[barbaraann]

28. I can't give up hope because I have a draft age son.

But I certainly understand your cynicism.

[maxsolomon]

30. me, too. he's 19.

but there is no draft. today.

[maxsolomon]

21. self delete

dupe post

[Stirk]

23. I disagree. I think it's very helpful.

It should be pointed out that the people who pushed this war- and the people who anxiously yapped support for it- chose to ignore the voices of opposition. They talk alot now about how "we were all wrong", trying to spread the blame around and hold onto a shred of credibility.

I protested this fraud invasion from the beginning, like alot of people here. Got alot of flack for it from ignorant superpatriots, too. I don't accept an ounce of blame for what's happened. Not an ounce.

They *should* be made to feel like idiots. They *should* be marginalized.

[barbaraann]

26. I protested, too, but our protests fell on deaf ears.

I'm saying that our tactics and strategy failed. Heck, our Constitution failed. We have to find better ways to end war and I don't know the answer but am trying to help.

[etherealtruth]

3. I'm going to direct my anger ...

... toward the people supporting Bush's wars ... those expressing regret, withdrawing support or coming out in opposition NOW are welcomed by me!

[barbaraann]

5. You should welcome them as ask them to do something to

repair the damage they caused.

[etherealtruth]

37. The fact that they are speaking out may encourage others ...

... to reconsider their positions. Believe me I understand your anger (1 draft age son, 2 younger children ... but "God" only knows how long this can go on) ... I just think the more we support those that regret their support or change their position ... the more we will get to "come out."

[barbaraann]

41. We should support them but also encourage them to

truly, truly reach out and connect with their victims and redeem their souls.

[Armstead]

6. I disagree.

Sounds a lot like Communist reeducation camps.

Rather than getting self-righteous and huffy, we ought to be making it easier for those who are willing to acknowledge mistakes.

Ego should not be involved on either side. Ego gets in the way too often.

[barbaraann]

8. It's sort of like a 12 Step program.

You have to make amends to heal everyone involved.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. How convenient that the collaborators are now seeing the light.

And, are now busily trying to wash the blood off their hands by calling it a "mistake".

[barbaraann]

9. But Republicans always call for extreme punishment of others who err.

n/t

[Tinoire]

10. Totally agree! The Nazis were sorry too. Everyone is sorry when

their evil is exposed and they're shamed.

Screw them. If they're that sorry, let them go to Fallujah unescorted and express their sorrow to the Iraqis. Then they can come back here and fight against the next war against Iran.

Until then they can take their self-serving "I'm sorry"s & stuff it.

KMA warmongering opportunistic hypocrites with your repulsive hollow words.

[Armstead]

11. Yes that's going to mnake it easy for people to change positions

Would you prefer that they all hold their positiona if they are not willing to wear sackcloth and ashes to "make amends"?

[barbaraann]

12. Restorative justice isn't "sackcloth and ashes."

It an incredibly intimate and healing process that releases people from suffering and destructive behavior (when it works).

[Tinoire]

35. Yes I honestly would. Empty self-serving words are meaningless.

You can't rape, plunder and kill and then expect to get off with a lil ole "I'm sorry".

Sackcloth and ashes. Public apologies to not only the Iraqi people, the American people, the US Military but to the entire world.

A mere "I'm sorry" didn't suffice for the Germans & it won't suffice here.

Penance and reparations are rough - tough shit.

[barbaraann]

13. Yes, just mouthing the words does nothing to repair the damage.

And then there are people like Chuck Colson...

[Armstead]

16. I don't think this should be another DU fault-line...

By fault-line, I mean one of those internal wedge issues that are less important than the bigger issues of agreement.

I don't disagree with your idea. I would prefer to see those who change their minds want to do whatever they can to balance the scales.

However, I think we ought to unconditionally accept whatever degree of change people are willing to do, without being insulted by folks like Duers, or being told they have to make amends in order to agree with us.

For someone like Breaux, it is enough to just be honest enough to admit that he disagrees with the vote he made back then. He's still the same guy he always was, and that alone is a major change. It also takes courage to admit to a mistake.

We ought to accept that on its own terms, and be thankful and gracious for whatever movement we can get from those who once supported the war.

[barbaraann]

19. It's just not enough for him to say he was wrong.

The damage has been immense and continues and he needs to help our society heal. No one is in a better position than those who voted for the war and now realize it was wrong.

If he atones and helps us heal he will be better able to prevent an invasion of Iran and we need that.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. I Would Suggest That Going Public Is Enough

He didn't say this to a pal on the golf course. He said it in public. This is a flat admission of failure.

Your idea is an unproductive litmus test. Societal shifts only occur when the swells get too large for the powers that be to hold them back.

Apologies do not enhance the swell. They make liberals like you and me feel better, because we were right and they were wrong.

There is too much at stake in the long run, to draw such short run lines in the sand. If people go public with the statement that the wrong was bad, and we never should have gone, it makes the J.Q Public's that don't pay enough attention rethink their silly yellow ribbons.

To me, any public admission of error is apology enough.
The Professor

[barbaraann]

27. The families of the fallen are suffering.

I believe that he needs to alleviate that suffering. I see the pictures of the familes at funerals on Yahoo almost every day and they are unbelievably wrenching. He needs to help those families. No one but the perpetrators of the crime of the Iraq War can repair the human damage. There must be atonement and forgiveness and love.

Cindy wants to talk to Bush, not just to people who opposed the war, because only the perpetrators can possible release her from her suffering.

[ProfessorGAC]

29. Admission Of Error Is The Atonement

You're being far too literal. The support these grieving people need is the knowledge that senseless death of a loved one was caused by a legislative mistake that is now admitted.

If you can't see the help this would give to those grieving families, there's nothing i can do to make you see it.
The Professor

[barbaraann]

31. It needs to be done face to face.

That's why Cindy is in Crawford.

[ProfessorGAC]

32. No She's Not

She's there to protest the actions of Bush and his gang. If she's expecting an apology from Silverspoon, she'd be dumber than a freeper.

Silverspoon is not atoning for anything. Sheehan is there to provide a demonstration of disgust against policies that are killing other people's kids. She's not foolish enough to be expecting any sort of mea culpa from Li'l Georgie.
The Professor

[barbaraann]

33. I realize that Bush is incapable of atoning.

But Cindy is not there just to protest, she's there to heal. There really is a lot of value in perpetrators and victims meeting face to face, even if the value is just on one side.

[ProfessorGAC]

34. I Won't Deny That

I understand what you're saying barbaraann. I really do.

But, i think the value of atonement, even from a distance, particularly given the need to impact the masses who AREN'T directly touched by this war, is quite high. An admission by any public figure that they were wrong, is a tacit apology. And, it's an admission to folks like us, who aren't grieving over the loss of a loved one, that they were wrong and we were right.

The public opinion value of that is HUGE!

And, i don't agree that Cindy's not protesting. If all she wanted was healing, she could find a very competent therapist to help her grieve and heal. She is using her grief and outrage to make a statement about the criminal stupidity and arrogance of this administration. She has willfully taken her grief public to make this statement. And, good for her. But, her focus is broader than for that you give her credit. I'm sure of it.
The Professor

[barbaraann]

42. I think she wants healing for herself and also for our country.

So I think we agree that what she is doing is more than just trying to relieve her own suffering.

[marions ghost]

36. far from this being a side issue...

I believe it is vital that politicians are required to take responsibility for their mistakes, not just be allowed to "do what they can to balance the scales." That never happens--they just walk away.

I'm sorry--when the stakes are THIS big, with this much potential for disaster, you do not get let off the hook just with a "sorry bout that." This IS exactly what's wrong with this country. We are too willing to overlook serious and unforgiveable abuses of power. We will gain NOTHING in the way of real change with this attitude. We're not talking about kids out on the playground who just need to have their knuckles rapped.

Pollyanna went out the door with the Bushistas when they hijacked the US Government.

[barbaraann]

40. I could not agree with you more.

The Republicans have done so much damage to this country that we simply must demand that they restore what they have destroyed. Alas, there are also some Dems who need to be held accountable but their wrongdoings pale in comparison.

Unfortunately, I think that the prison-industrial complex might not be too helpful in spreading Restorative Justice programs.

[alkaline9]

14. this system of penance is too...

...complex for the people who voted for Bush. They can't even understand why we're mad ... how are they gonna understand this corrective program? Note, these are people who would run their trucks through a field of crosses and flags in the ground just to show their support for BushCo.

Its not gonna work. Its a good theory, but Americans will NEVER see eye to eye on this. The rethugs will always be rethugs (even if they lose their support for BushCo).

[barbaraann]

18. I have seen people change in my life.

I have seen racists become non-racists. I have seen terrible alcholics recover. I have seen criminals turn their lives around. I have seen a lot of people change profoundly for the better, and yes some for the worse, too.

David Brock, Ed Schultz, Arianna Huffington and more. There are lots of people who came over from the Dark Side and many more who can.

[jsamuel]

22. Pat Buchanan

he is ANTI-IRAN WAR

lol :)

[barbaraann]

24. Yes, but he's still pro-Nixon.

And doesn't he still think the Vietnam War was a good thing?

[marions ghost]

38. I think these ideas are interesting barbaraann

We need to start treating white collar and political
offenders a LOT more like we do street criminals. Most of these people who screw up take no opportunity to repair or salvage anything. Often they are repeat offenders. "Provide opportunities for parties with a stake in a specific crime to participate in its resolution." We have got to take this more seriously and stop looking the other way --if we are going to create a more healthy society where politicians and their corporate supporters are not too important and privileged to make amends.

thanks for posting

[barbaraann]

39. Thank you.

I really hope the Restorative Justice idea spreads to white collar crime and politics, too.