UK headline; "IS THIS THE DEATH OF AMERICA?"

[LynnTheDem]

Is America Finished?

THIS week Karen Hughes, long-time political adviser to George Bush, began her new mission as the State Department's official defender of America's image with a tour of the Middle East.

She might have been more help to her beleaguered president had she stayed at home and used her PR skills on her neighbours. At the end of a cruel and turbulent summer, nobody is more dismayed and demoralised about America than Americans.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16223364&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=is-this-the-death-of-america--name_page.html

OUCH.

[valerief]

1. America has never been America for people of color and

America stopped being America for white people after Kent State.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. nt

no text.

[Just Me]

16. good for you

nt

[AspenRose]

34. Amen, amen, and amen.

I agree 10000 percent.

[LuCifer]

37. Sad, but true...

...ya know, for such few words, you really did hit a LOT of nails on the head. WOW. Props out G! :toast: This just makes me MORE fuckin :mad:
and wanna :puke:!!!!!!!!!! RISE UP AMERICA, AND OVERTHROW THESE MORONS ALREADY!!!!!!!!!! IT IS YOUR DUTY!

Lu

[Tigress DEM]

68. Half a Million went to Washington DC, but that was just a ...

I don't know exactly how Rove and his people made us disappear from the MSM map. We got quotes of between 100,000 and 350,000 but CSpan did arial views on 9/25 and said there was an estimated 500,000 to 600,000.

Now some of those may have been there with the IMF International Monetary Fund, so we can take off 100,000, but 1/5 a million sounds about right. It took 4-5 hours for the whole group to finish marching on 9/25.

Still we got less coverage in DC than the St Bernard who swallowed a 13" knife and lived to bark about it.

[Tigress DEM]

66. Feel your gloom. Yes our problems are severe. I want my country back!

However, remember America isn't only the politicos and all their stupidity.

Mainstream America wants people of all colors to succeed. Making it happen when the whole nation is up on it's end is the hard part.

Don't buy into the propoganda that makes you think all white people are in that whole religious right, blacks and gays are the problem thing. Not true.

In 2004 the MAJORITY voted for Kerry, but we got played by Ken Blackwell in Ohio among others, but he sealed the last chance to have an honest election envelope. (Read the Conyers report yet? I have.)

Even the groups that have traditionally supported the white bread philosophy are looking at the Katrina mess and all of the sudden this "racial equality isn't happening in America" is believable by all. The media's "white people find food in stores" while "black boy loots" opened a lot of eyes.

Just like the pain of everyday blacks suffering in America was hidden until Katrina, the outrage of those who have been aware for awhile has also been hidden. Most whites, including myself, still don't know what best to do to in support of fixing the things we are outraged about. I speak up when I see things. I treat people right. I'm trying to understand where to best help out.

I went to Washington in part because I believe this is the worst President ever for, well anyone, but blacks especially. I want this man impeached and his whole monkey crew besides. He only pretends to be cool about blacks during photo ops. His appointments of minorities to scapegoat positions where he nails them down spouting his ridiculous crap doesn't fool me.

He still has met with NAACP what, once in this term? Maybe once the last term, but he has Dobson and Corporate schills there all the time. When he's there and not hiding out in his ranch. (Course Cindy Sheehan made that a bit uncomfortable for him, but I digress.)

I'd like to see them take COPS off the air and empower the IRS instead to go after big corporate fraud. Some really hunky guy and a sassy gal team busting the big guys and putting billions in the treasury instead of watching minorities being arrested for stupid stuff. Shambles of lives in the hood on every evening, but these rich fat cats who live off corporate welfare which comes out of our tax dollars hiding behind their powerful fenced gates and money.

Clinton for all his faults did the job he was sent to do. He made things better for many people. There was still a long way to go even if we'd kept it up from where he left off, but Clinton didn't go up against Bush until he saw what the dumb fool did by abandoning the people of New Orleans.

I think as bad as it is, we are beginning to get a foot hold and more and more this isn't "your people's fight" or "my people's fight" it's WE THE PEOPLE - One Race, the HUMAN RACE standing together telling this administration and any who seek to take it's place that "In America we treat each other with respect and work together honestly to get the job done. Any politico who can't understand that, can't honestly deliver that is not going to get elected."

We may spend time fighting for our voting rights. We may have to go back to Washington DC by the millions to get the job done, but this fight is now everyone's fight. The advantage of Bush pissing on everyone means everyone is pissed at Bush and all the crappy agendas he's been dishing out are being trashed even by his loyal followers.

[meti57b]

2. I think that tradition of flag-waving comes from our taking in so many ...

immigrants, including my grandparents, who all wanted to show that they too were good Americans. That's just a guess on my part.

[tblue37]

25. What a pretty kitty.

A lynx point?

[jobycom]

3. One objection. My belief in America and it's ideals has not been undermine

I may never have believed in them as strongly as I do now, now that they are being denied and abused. The ideals will not die. The nation is a beautiful place. The only thing broken is the leadership, which won't call for a higher goal than shopping, which can't conceive of a greater mistake than bad PR.

When we get the leadership we should all demand, we will once again be a nation to be proud of.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. I agree

We are fighting. There is work to be done but there is great hope.

[melody]

28. Exactly

This country belongs to us, not them. It's the only birthright we have as a culture, our form of government. It will not be destroyed.

[tabasco]

32. Thank you.

I agree.

[rockymountaindem]

41. Indeed.

I've always felt that growing up as a liberal Jew in Colorado Springs has helped make me the outspoken person I am today. An adversarial environment is wonderful for that.

I've gotten too used to it, though. I can hardly stand being in a room where everybody agrees :)

[indie_voter]

48. Yes. We are better than the Bushies

We are NOT the Bushies.

[LynnTheDem]

54. We didn't suddenly hit 3rd world status #49 in infant mortality since bush

America has been in rapid decline for a very long time. And Americans better start facing up to the facts fast, before it's too late.

How very comfroting it is to simply shrug it all off as being "bushies". How very dangerous.

[indie_voter]

55. Where do you see it start? I think it was with Reagan

Jimmy Carter was our best hope, mho.

Bush has sent us in decline faster than I ever imagined possible.

[LynnTheDem]

58. It started before WW2.

bush has made the decline more noticeable. Most Americans don't know that we are #14 this year for democracy, we're #12 for freedoms. Most don't know we're #29 for literacy. Most don't know we're #1 for number of citizens in jail.

None of this is new since bush, and it's all still declining because most Americans aren't even aware of these facts, and ya can't fix em if ya don't know about em.

bush has added onto our decline, with his Hitler-Poland impersonation and his torture policy and his incredible deficit. But there's a shitload of other underlying problems we've had for decades, and ridding ourselves of the bushCabal isn't going to get the problems fixed unless and until Americans are aware of the problems.

IMO.

[indie_voter]

59. I agree with your point, can't fix a problem unless you admit you have one

What are your thoughts on solutions (assuming people admit the problems , racism, jingoism, church and state degradation)?

I don't agree it was pre ww2 unless we're talking race, then I think it was a flawed premise to begin with, starting with the native americans.

Carter was a beacon of hope, Reagan was imho the reason we are where we are today.

[LynnTheDem]

61. We must EDUCATE ourselves and other Americans.

The US media doesn't want that. The US government doesn't want that.

The Soviet Union didn't want their citizens knowledgable either. Neither did Hitler want the Germans knowledgable. Fact is, it's far easier to run a government when your populace is kept dumbed down.

The other problem is the apathy and complacency by so many of We the People.

Solutions would be damned easy IF our media, our schools, and our government would deal in FACTS and face up to the massive problems we have and force the American populace to do likewise, rather than mindlessly patting each other on the back and chanting "we're #1".

And how do we get to that? I suspect not until either we sink to rock bottom and there's a civil war, or we suffer what it took the German people to wake up. Neither solution appeals, but I really have no idea how else it's going to happen. Keep speaking out, keep educating those we can, and do a lot of knocking on wood?

[indie_voter]

64. Education is the key

Hopefully the internet will help further this along, teach all of us, we are not the "best" but not the worst either.

My dad worked for the UN for a few years when I was young, I lived in a few other countries (Philippines during the Marcos reign, Middle East, etc).

I learned the world needs education.

We all need to understand each other better. We need to understand the color of our skin does not define us, our nationality does not define us.

No country is number one. Our boundaries are artificial man made nonsense.

We need to co-exist and be a global village.

I don't think America was founded on the notion "we are better", I think it became that way over the years, perhaps post WW2, the euphoria of helping rid the world of the Nazis?

I don't know.

[jobycom]

83. I'm not sure I understand

What has been declining since before WW II? Our literacy rate? Our freedoms and democracy? Our infant mortality rate? That can't be true. I'd need stats to prove we have a lower literacy rate or higher infant mortality rate or worse democracy. After Civil Rights we have fewer freedoms? After Brown v Board of education we have a lower literacy rate?

Our economic wealth has increased since WW II, our standard of living across the board has gone up dramatically. Our poorest are better off than some nations' middle classes. Our scientific advances and farming advances have led to longer lifespans. Our poverty line has improved.

I don't understand what you are saying here, I guess.

[LynnTheDem]

94. Links

America by the numbers
http://www.citypages.com/databank/26/1264/article12985.asp

US ranking in world; democracy, civil liberties, etc
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3256682

[mwb970]

76. We deserve so much better than this.

The current leadership seems not to care about America or Americans at all. Lord willing, this is a temporary condition.

[Guaranteed]

79. OUTSTANDING POST. nt

[goforit]

90. Yes and we my friend have to get the leadership.

It most certainly just be given to us.

[Inland]

93. Well, ideals are such that they

can't go broke like an economy or be defeated like a military.

Get rid of Bushies and live by our ideals can be done, but the money, manpower, are gone forever.

Opporunties to spread our ideal are gone forever.

Chance to prevent critical damage to the environment, chance to secure our nations energy future, those are gone forever.

Eight critical years, gone.

[PatrioticLeftie]

4. As long as we cherish the ideals thousands have died for

America will never die. No matter how much s**t happens, they can't corrupt our resolve.

What pains me about some of these Brit articles is that they always assume things about us.

[LynnTheDem]

11. That article is full of FACTS.

And Americans better wake the fuck up to those FACTS and fast. Or America will be dead, finished, through.

[mandyky]

22. Yep, meanwhile Bush and his supporters are singing

Lord, It's hard to be humble when we're perfect in so many ways!

1970 - Mac Davis

[LynnTheDem]

24. It's like watching someone you love drive their car off a cliff...

and when you point out the FACT that they are driving off a cliff, they just accuse you of hating their vehicle.

And then they drive off the cliff.

[ladjf]

36. Yes, and their credo is "blessed are the meek for they shall

elect us so that we can pillage the Earth."

[PatrioticLeftie]

12. To Lynn: Notice the inclusion of 'some'?

Evidently not. And since when do I have to agree with every god damn thing something says?

[LynnTheDem]

17. Where did I say you had to

"agree with every god damn thing something says?"

Know what I so very often notice? Americans, when confronted with the facts about America, get very defensive. And that is why every year we drop further and further into 3rd World status, instead of fixing what's gone horribly deadly wrong.

[melody]

29. Defensive?

Some of the people pointing out our 'problems' are doing so for their own reasons and they *aren't* good ones.

We have a right to defend what is good in this country, and there's much that is -- it's the only culture some of us have, so we'll cling to it long enough to save it from these monsters.

When someone is defending his/her country, they're *not* necessarily defending our government.

[LynnTheDem]

38. We're not discussing the good things, we're discussing the bad.

And by diverting the conversation to the good, rather than discuss and face the FACTS of the bad, that's akin to pointing out the number of people who did NOT protest bush's illegal invasion or the troops who did NOT torture Iraqis, rather than deal with those who did.

[melody]

45. I'm not talking about discussion of issues

That's government-based criticism. That has merit and import. I'm talking about whole scale insults to our culture, i.e. "death of America", as if all of America is determined by the whims and actions of the far-right.

[LynnTheDem]

46. Did you read the article???

Doesn't seem so.

[melody]

50. I read the article, I'm discussing the thrust of its overall concept

We're America...the aspects about which they wrote do not equate to "America" as an entity. The people comprise that.

[LynnTheDem]

51. EOM

:)

[Carni]

27. Please...we will *die* if we keep this fucked up attitude

Look back through history...the great US of A is just young.

The powerful have screwed the poor and non-powerful people from the get go in this country--learn to speak Chinese baby, because that is who owns us and we are in a downward spiral.

Money talks and no-one that holds the notes gives a shit about the flag waving fairy tales of the US of A.

I am very happy that bush and company will probably be run out on a rail... but the fact is they'll pull a Saddam and the jerks living here are going to be facing the consequences--we're broke.

[mr blur]

71. But how much of what was said in the article,

do you disagree with?

Your response to it rather suggests why people might "always assume things" about you.

[greekspeak]

6. And they say Jimmy Carter's work depressed America

This is not just depressing...it is morbid.

[whirlygigspin]

7. read between the lines

[whistle]

8. State Dept's official defender of America's image = chief propagandist

[AlinPA]

9. Accurate. "We're Number 1 !" Sad. We can recover. Lets go Dems.

[LZ1234]

10. Perhaps there would be hope if ...

impeachment proceedings actually began and Bush then ulimately impeached. Very good article though.

[Redstone]

13. Is there ANYONE who can write better than the Brits?

I don't think there is: "At the end of a cruel and turbulent summer," indeed.

Redstone

[Just Me]

15. "America" is confronting her fiction. She has been deceived.

The worst among her have enslaved her to a fiction in order to HIDE the atrocities committed in her name by government-backed, greedy corporacrats on foreign nations,...and even her own nation.

This deceptive exploition by ignoble, anti-democratic, anti-equality, anti-compassion, anti-American values,...MUST END.

[LynnTheDem]

19. 2005; USA = #12 for freedoms, #14 for democracy,

#49 for infant mortality (that's 3rd World), #42 for infrastructure (that's 3rd World) #29 for literacy...

Every year we drop further down. Dem...Repub...Indy...it's got to stop. But as with the torture, it will not stop until Americans learn the FACTS. And it's not in the best interests of the M$M nor any political party to point the facts out to Americans.

Getting rid of bushCartel is a start, but what this country really needs, IMO, is one huge attitude adjustment.

[Boomer]

81. It's the American people that make me despair

Electing Bush once was a stupid but honest mistake; electing him twice was a declaration to the world that America has no shame for what it has become.

And if the election results were corrupt (which I believe they were), and the people do not rise against such blatant corruption, the cause for shame is even greater.

The voices who speak out against our greedy corporate-owned fascist culture are few and muted. Even those who rail against Bush are often loathe to expand that criticism to the unregulated capitalist system that has continued to run rampant through numerous administrations of both parties.

Eisenhower saw the danger over 50 years ago, and the country has done nothing to avoid that fate. Democrats and Republicans have been bought and paid for, and our government exists to serve corporate interests, not the people.

[stillcool]

18. what an ass-kicking article...

and it even has a good ending...

"America's sense of itself - its pride in its power and authority, its faith in its institutions and its belief in its leaders - has been profoundly damaged. And now the talking heads in Washington predict dramatic political change and the death of the Republicans' hope of becoming the permanent government."

praying for canary's...lots of canary's

[understandinglife]

20. NO. It is the defining moment when We The People ... realize that ...

... that is not merely a phrase -- it is US, and we are going to prevail.

We will make our Constitution stronger and our respect and protection of diversity a persistent commitment because we will have been tested and truly remembered why "Government of the people, by the people, for the people" is the most profound and caring basis of civilization.

We MUST.

We simply MUST.


Peace.

[Gloria]

21. While walking my dog tonight, it struck me that American women are

soon to enter the Third World in terms of controlling their own reproduction. Holding back the morning after pill, the destruction of Roe v. Wade....we join the ranks of all those poor women around the world who are already thanking the US for holding back funds for birth control if they dare utter the word "abortion." European women by and large are in a better spot than we will be.....Does that make you proud to be an American??

But it's not just women's issues--it's the way we are destroying what social support system we've had for the elderly, infirm, and poor. And our vets. Cut back on Medicaid at the first sign of a hurricane. But restore a tax on the wealthy??

The priorities in this country are totally screwed up and it will ruin us.

[Rex]

23. The death of democracy in America.

We will survive in one form or another.

[IndyOp]

26. The humbling of America -- Please God, let it be so!

The crumbling of America - no doubt, been going on for decades - including during the reign of Clinton with removal of fairness doctrine, the weekly bombings of Iraq...

Ray of Hope: "And now the talking heads in Washington predict dramatic political change and the death of the Republicans' hope of becoming the permanent government."

We must do more -- we must push for the crumbling of America's long-held imperialistic tendencies -- our wealth has been built on the backs and graves of untold millions of people around the world.

Enough!

[degreesofgray]

73. Reagan rescinded the fairness doctrine,

not Clinton. Clinton merely helped the GOP pull the rug out from under the poor.

[IndyOp]

91. Thanks for the correction! (nt)

[Golden Raisin]

30. All empires eventually rot, crumble and fall

Sadly, we are SO finished. The populace is now so dumbed-down, ill-educated and anesthetized they aren't offended, shocked or screaming and rioting in the streets about, just as one horrifying example, Abu Ghraib. And why should they? What example have our "leaders" and government representatives set? Our Senators and Congresspeople have done virtually nothing, when they should ALL (regardless of party affiliation) be standing in the well of the Senate screaming their bloody heads off at what we have become in the eyes of the world --- TORTURERS. I'm not naive enough to forget that the CIA has always been involved in dastardly and deadly interference around the globe, and America is certainly not as pure as the new-fallen snow, but in the past at least an attempt (not always successful) was made to hide it. In this administration its right out in open sight with a patented fuck-you Bush sneer attached to it. The President and his team have deliberately created an atmosphere where Abu Ghraibs & Gitmos not only happen but are encouraged. Not one senior military person has been punished or called to account. Where is the public outrage which almost any previous generation of Americans would have exhibited --- both common people and elected representatives? Just as long as the people of today continue to have 'Fear Factor', the Adventures of Paris Hilton, NASCAR and 'Survivor' to watch, and gas isn't too, too expensive, all is well. Vast percentages of Americans cannot drag their sorry asses to the polls to bother to vote, but we are busily exporting democracy to others. And now with the last 2 rigged Bush elections, maybe the non-voters have a valid point! Why bother to vote! Diebold will win out everytime, and then there's always the stacked Supreme Court to make it final if the rigging doesn't work. We've got a bunch of fascist, theocratic crooks in the White House who have very skillfully used fear to push our emotional buttons and have then sent our own young to be slaughtered & maimed in a quagmire war in Iraq. The poor Iraqi people have been the victims of our hubris and are now dying like flies as their country implodes on its way to fullscale civil war. We now have a national debt of such staggering proportions that the numbers and math are almost incomprehensible. The tax codes and laws are now constructed exclusively for the benefit of the smallest percentage of wealthy people and the largest corporations, while the middle class and poor are screwed. This is certainly not the first corrupt administration, but they have set new levels for cronyism (i.e. no-bid gazillion dollar Halliburton contracts, etc.) and bold-faced audacity. We no longer have an independent, probing press and media who question or call our leaders to task. Instead we have trash like O'Reilly, Hannity, Malkin, etal. who are ideologues & bullies, bankrolled & given airspace by conservative, agenda-driven moneymen like Rupert Murdoch. We have the infamous and ironically named "Patriot Act" which is part of the deliberate plan of the neocons to break down and dismantle the Constitution and the basic democratic rights the Founding Fathers envisioned for future generations of Americans. Bush floats an idea (this past week) about using the military as a domestic police force in upcoming emergencies (Avian flu, next big hurricane, etc.) and the story causes no particular outrage or even debate despite the fact that its the first step towards imposing freakin' martial law. Are we finished? Add it all up and its a very ugly picture. I'd like to think the only hope is if the American people get their shit together for the 2006 Congressional elections, and send a loud message against the status quo, but I no longer trust the voting process since Bush and his people have been in power.

[tom_paine]

35. Well said and welcome to DU, Golden Raisin

Sadly, I believe you are absolutely correct in your assessment.

There is still a tiny glimmer of hope and chance that we are wrong, though.

[LynnTheDem]

40. Very well said.

And welcome to DU.

:hi:

[Straight Shooter]

31. Chavez said, 19th century belonged to Europe, 20th century belonged to U.S

21st century will belong to Latin America.

Is America finished? Not yet. But I hear death rattles. We do have one foot in the grave.

[AspenRose]

33. One thing I take issue with....

"The press has since been giving the country a crash course on poverty and race, informing the flag wavers that an uncaring America may be No.1 on the world inequities index."

Well, SOME MEMBERS of the press. The press is still, by and large, corporate-owned....therefore, this message is not as resounding as it ought to be. Other than that, spot on.

[BrklynLiberal]

39. Another instance of the truth being told in the foreign press as it will

never be told in the American press....and never be seen by most Americans.

[LynnTheDem]

42. And it's that very disconnect that is so incredibly dangerous to us.

Canada, the UK, Europe, they KNOW the facts.

They KNOW the fact that CUBA is incredibly far ahead of us in things like health care, infant mortality, literacy. THEY KNOW this.

And then they see on tv or via tourists etc, Americans being arrogant and oh-so-ignorant, rah-rah-rah we're #1 bullshit.

The world KNOWS we're not #1 in democracy and have NEVER made it to #1; THEY KNOW the 2000 "election" was a farce; they watch us INVADE a nation that hadn't been doing a damn thing to anyone...and they watch us spew on & on about our "spreading democracy".

Ignorant...Arrogant...Hypocrites. (Oh and the Hitleresque wars of aggression and the torture and raping and murdering and pillaging and profiteering don't help, either. So much for "American democracy".)

In poll after poll after survey after survey, Americans will say yes, and the entire rest of the world will say no, or vice versa. HUGE TOTAL ABSOLUTE DISCONNECT.

Take WW2 as an example; most Americans will reply with something along the lines of "we saved Europe's & Britain's asses, we were heros". Funny thing is, ask most EUROPEANS and BRITS what THEY think about it. Their anger and disdain may surprise you.

A recent example, the invasion of Afghanistan; most Americans think the world majority approved bush's attack. Not true. In fact, the majority of the world OPPOSED bush's attacking Afghanistan. Once again, the world majority was right. Once again, Americans are so far behind the curveball of knowledge.

And that's damned dangerous for us all.

[BrklynLiberal]

87. Ignorant. Arrogant. Hypocrites. That summarizes the world opinion of this

adminstration...and thereby, this country.

[Marie26]

52. This is a stupid question, but

Why is that? When did we reach the point that the media decided to stop telling us the truth? It can't just be a Democrat/Rep. thing, because Bush Sr. didn't get a free ride from the press, & of course Clinton didn't. Why should Bush? Is it because the press was so directly impacted by 9/11? Is it because of Fox News? When I think of how weird things are in this country, the fact that the "Daily Show" has the best journalism on TV is probably the weirdest.

[LynnTheDem]

63. Not stupid at all. Damn fine question.

There is a HUGE difference between US media and the rest of the world's media, especially the media such as in Canada, UK, Europe, etc.

What Canada et al have that we do not is the Fairness Doctrine, for one. Isn't it strange that the rightwingnuttery screech about the "liberal media", yet refuse to bring back the Fairness Doctrine, which would take care of the "liberal media" were there any such thing. That's a contradiction I've yet to hear any rightwingnut explain.

The deregulation in the US also is hugely responsible for the dumbing down of Americans; a very few large conglomerates own most the airwaves. And large conglomerates want republicans in office because republicans are pro-big business interests.

Another important aspect is the rampant nationalism in this country and that's been a problem for decades. Very few media, and very few politicians, are willing to risk pointing out facts about the US that contradict the "we're #1" myth, as that's a sure-fire way of losing your career, and many (most?) Americans do NOT want to hear such facts, anyways.

We seem to WANT to be spoon-fed our nice bland reassuring pablum.

[Marie26]

43. Depressing article, but

I sort of think the very fact that so many are disgusted means there's hope. People have a better ideal of America, and they see how far we are from it. But just recognizing the problem could be the first step to solving it. It seems like more people are waking up from the unquestioning patriotism that reigned after 9/11 to really ask hard questions about this government & the state of the country.
I'd be more worried if Bush's poll numbers were still in the stratosphere.

[indie_voter]

44. We have our problems but...

To paraphrase the old Oklahoma song: I am not saying we are better than anybody else, but I'll be danged if we aren't as good!

[LynnTheDem]

47. Oh come on...

We ARE 49th in infant mortality. That's FACT.

And we will continue to drop lower and lower unless and until we FACE THE FACTS. The world is still trying to point these facts out to America, to WAKE US UP before it's too bloody late.

Just as the FRENCH tried to stop us making the biggest blunder in US history...and what did a majority of America do (and still do)? BASH FRANCE.

That article most certainly is NOT 'gleeful bashing". It's stating FACTS and a plea;

WAKE UP, AMERICA.

[indie_voter]

53. I agree, we have problems

However so does the U.K.

I also admit, I can't read an article from the U.K. chastising us for our racism without thinking of how they treated my grandfather in India.

They wouldn't allow him in to areas (and buildings) of his own country.

Absolutely, The world (France and many others) was right in warning us about Iraq. The world is correct in warning us about the Bush administration. I hope we wake up to this and impeach the bastards.

Yet to read an article which discusses racial prejudice from a country which treats their Indian/Pakistani citizens as second class citizens leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I don't defend where we are at now, but I do see hypocrisy and gleeful bashing in this article.

[LynnTheDem]

56. We are not discussing the UK's problems.

FACT; America is full of racial prejudice.

And it doesn't matter who points it out and whether they have racial prejudice as well; THE FACT IS WE DO.

Again, it's damned comforting to shrug off our problems by reassuring ourselves other nations have problems too. But i9t doesn't get our problems fixed.

[indie_voter]

57. Yes, we are. I live it daily since 9/11

So how do we solve this? How do we move forward?

I don't know the answers. I've never been so afraid as I was the day after 9/11 when people were shooting brown people.

How do we reclaim who we can be?

MHO, third world, first world, all these are labels. How do we become ONE world?

[LynnTheDem]

60. IMO the very first thing we must do is

EDUCATE EDUCATE EDUCATE.

Until the majority of Americans are made aware of the facts, such as our being #49 for infant mortality, that a baby born in Beijing has 3 times the chance to reach his first birthday as a baby born in Washington, until they're aware of the problems, the problems will not get fixed.

Personally, I think it may already be too late. Americans are so complacent and the majority so ignorant of the facts of their own country, so very sure of their "we're #1" status, that the wake-up call is going to be one hell of a MFer.

How did we manage to go 3 decades without once being within the top 25 nations for infant mortality? How did we manage to drop to 49th? And here we are, at 49th, and most Americans don't even know it. Oh we'll all know it when we drop a few more points. Kinda too late by then though.

[indie_voter]

62. You're right about Infant Mortality

We (the US) have a smug attitude about our medical abilities.

My brother was born over 45 years ago in what many call a "third world country" (which I consider a condescending western term) as a 3 lb preemie. He survived and thrives to this day.

We all need to over come this attitude that we are "number one" just because of where we were born. We all live on one planet. We are all dependent on each other.

We need to stop this "third world", "super power" nonsense and realize we ALL, no matter what country we call home, are equal and have things to be proud of, things to be ashamed of.

Each country needs to improve and learn to co-exist. I would love to see a day where we didn't draw artificial barriers around the land and call ourselves "French" "Indian" "American" but "Earthlings".

I agree, We (USA) need to shed our arrogance, especially the way we are today.

[LynnTheDem]

65. Amen. From your lips to America's ears.

:hug:

[Swamp Rat]

49. It is for those of us from the Gulf Coast.

[AlphaCat]

67. I have more faith in America than that.

Politicians come and go; Lord knows we made it through Watergate, Viet Nam, the Cold War etc. with enough of them. Those of us who are older have seen campaign after campaign--some good, some bad, some exciting, and some that just piddled along. We'll make it through this one, too. When things are going badly, it's easy to think that those bad times will never end--but they always do.

I think, in just a few years, things will be very different.

We just need to hang in there.

[LynnTheDem]

69. America's problems go deeper than any one politician.

bush has made things worse, but things were very far from perfect before him & will be after him, because until the vast majority of Americans WAKE UP to the facts, that not only are we NOT #1, we're fast falling into last place, nothing is going to get fixed.

[AlphaCat]

78. I can agree with most of that.

Our problems DO go deeper than one man. I've often been frustrated in the past because, just as we finally get to the point where something can be done about it all, we have another election for president and everything gets lost in the shuffle. By the time things settle down, it seems like everything has been swept under the rug--or the opposition is in power and WON'T take a look--so we're back to square one.

I wish we could get some real reforms instituted, real progress made. However, even with all that, I will ALWAYS think of our country as #1

[progressive_realist]

70. OUCH, indeed.

From the article:

"With TV providing a ceaseless backdrop of the country's failings - a crippled and tone-deaf president, a negligent government, corruption, military atrocities, soaring debt, racial conflict, poverty, bloated bodies in floodwater, people dying on camera for want of food, water and medicine - it seemed things were falling apart in the land where happiness is promoted in the constitution."

I wish I could defend the USA, but all these claims are true. Our country is not doing well. :hurts:

[ErisFiveFingers]

72. 230(?) convicted for torture?

Is this a typo?

"Some 230 low-rankers have been convicted - but not one general or Pentagon overseer"

Are there really that many "bad" apples, and if so, who is responsible for allowing so many bad apples, Mr Renfield...er... Rumsfield? I mean, *one* nut I could see, five is pushing it, but even *23* requires organization or culture, let alone 230.

[Jamastiene]

74. Damn, the truth hits home, doesn't it?

I knew a lot of us were below the poverty line, but not quite as many as mentioned in the article. Recently, the UN has pointed this out too. I hope something good can come from all the bad things done by this affront to humanity known as George Bush and his cronies. I'm so sick of him. I just want him to be a bad memory and time is creeping by oh, so slowly. Let's look at the brite side and there is one; He will one day be a bad memory. That's the best I have right now.

[texpatriot2004]

75. Ouch that smarts, it's a blistering and honest article about the US.

A bit long but worth the read. I agree with the author too. Some of these lines really hit home. I am amazed by these things, I mean to see them there in black and white.


They have watched with growing disbelief and horror as a convergence of events - dominated by the unending war in Iraq and two hurricanes - have exposed ugly and disturbing things in the undergrowth that shame and embarrass Americans and undermine their belief in the nation and its values.

With TV providing a ceaseless backdrop of the country's failings - a crippled and tone-deaf president, a negligent government, corruption, military atrocities, soaring debt, racial conflict, poverty, bloated bodies in floodwater, people dying on camera for want of food, water and medicine - it seemed things were falling apart in the land where happiness is promoted in the constitution.

<snip>

AMERICA, which has the world's costliest health care, had, it turned out, higher infant mortality rates than the broke and despised Cuba.

<snip>

But events have revealed a creeping mildew of pain and privation, graft and injustice and much incompetence lurking beneath the glow of star-spangled superiority.

<snip>

The typical white family has $80,000 in assets; the average black family about $6,000. It's a wealth gap out of the Middle Ages. Some 46 million can't afford health insurance, 18,000 of whom will die early because of it.

The US, we learn, is 43rd in the world infant mortality rankings. A baby born in Beijing has nearly three times the chance of reaching its first birthday than a baby born in Washington. Those who survive face rotten schools. On reading and maths tests for 15-year-olds, America is 24th out of 29 nations.

On the other side of the tracks, 18 corporate executives have so far been jailed for cooking the books and looting billions. The prosecution of Mr Bush's pals at Enron - the showcase trial of the greed-is-good culture - will be soon.

But the backroom deal lives on and, in an orgy of cronyism, billions of dollars are being carved up in no-bid contracts awarded to politically-connected firms for work in the hurricane-hit states and in Iraq.

<snip>

Americans have been angered by a reports that US troops have routinely tortured Iraqi prisoners. Some 230 low-rankers have been convicted - but not one general or Pentagon overseer. Disgruntled young officers are leaving in increasing numbers.

Meanwhile, further damaging Americans' self image, there's Afghanistan. The White House says its operations there were a success, yet last year Afghanistan supplied 90 per cent of the world's heroin.

America's sense of itself - its pride in its power and authority, its faith in its institutions and its belief in its leaders - has been profoundly damaged. And now the talking heads in Washington predict dramatic political change and the death of the Republicans' hope of becoming the permanent government.

IS AMERICA FINISHED?

[cassiepriam]

77. Survival depends upon facing reality. Americans not capable of that.

[ourbluenation]

80. Until we have a national "come to jesus" moment nothing will change..and I

ain't talking about Jesus literally. I'm talking about that moment where we take a real hard look in the mirror, as a nation, and wake the fuck up. The bushbots need to get out of the damn way.

[cassiepriam]

82. Yes, getting rid of Bush will not solve anything....Americans must face

their part in all of this.

[leftchick]

84. "Americans are the planet's biggest flag wavers"

Yes indeed it is blatant nationalism to the extreme. Reminds me of another country not in the too distant past...

<snip>

Americans are the planet's biggest flag wavers. They are reared on the conceit that theirs is the world's best and most enviable country, born only the day before yesterday but a model society with freedom, opportunity and prosperity not found, they think, in older cultures.

They rejoice that "We are No.1", and in many ways they are.


But events have revealed a creeping mildew of pain and privation, graft and injustice and much incompetence lurking beneath the glow of star-spangled superiority.

Many here feel the country is breaking down and losing its moral and political authority.

[tlsmith1963]

85. They Hit it on the Nose

But I don't want America to be finished. I want us to be a better, more caring country than this. :(

Tammy

[NJCher]

86. re writing

And how about this descriptive paragraph:

With TV providing a ceaseless backdrop of the country's failings - a crippled and tone-deaf president, a negligent government, corruption, military atrocities, soaring debt, racial conflict, poverty, bloated bodies in floodwater, people dying on camera for want of food, water and medicine - it seemed things were falling apart in the land where happiness is promoted in the constitution.





Cher

[BrklynLiberal]

88. a kick for those who missed this essential article.

[mandyky]

89. This question and article haunted my sleep last night!

And this isn't a new thought for me, I've felt this way about Bush and the GOP crooks in Congress all along. Living in a country run by the American Taliban is not a pleasant thought to me.

[indepat]

92. Almost every Administration initiative has brought about a slow death of

the America as we knew it, with all deliberate speed.

[texpatriot2004]

95. Damn good article.n/t

[JoZbean]

96. Not just the article, but the discussion being held here and now!

I just found this thread tonight. It took me awhile to catch up. I have to tell you that I'm stunned that anyone would take offense at the article. Yes, it kicks us in the ass, but goddamnit, that's what we need. A good kick in the ass! A good, long and painfully honest look in the mirror at what we've become.

I woke yesterday morning with bits and pieces of a dream in my head. All I can remember now is the phrase that kept beating a drumbeat in my brain. "I believe.....I'm fortunate <snip> in America." But then the second part kicked in and it was "But I don't believe......" and I can't remember what it is that I woke not believing. I think this article and what you've all written is the part that must be missing.

As I read the responses here, my first thought was, "we need to send this article to our senators and representatives." But as I kept reading, I came to realize that LynntheDem and so many others are right. We have to educate ourselves and then America, not our elected officials. They don't give a rat's ass what we point out to them. They don't represent us! They represent their corporate campaign donors.

I've been spoiling for a new cause, instead of impotently railing against this administration. THIS I can do. Beginning with next week's local papers.....and LTTEs. Face it, accept it and change it!

(edited for spelling)