BREAKING NEWS! Texas redistiricting succeeds- GOP will gain up to 7 seats

[TakebackAmerica]

I can't F*cking believe this.
Let's hope we win in court.
This is terrible.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/979592.asp

[CMT]

1. There would go any chance to win back the house

as it is redistricting has hurt our chances to retake the house for several election cycles.

[Homer12]

4. Step #1: The religious facists consolidate power

Recalls and Redistricting: the good things in life start with R's.

Tom Delay is against democracy.

[Pastiche423]

19. Please do not forget the third R...

Recount!

[judgegina]

45. And the 4th R:

Rigged voting machines

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

50. Step #2: The religious fascists implement BBV

Step #3: A thousand year Reich, er, uh, I mean Dynasty.

[wryter2000]

2. Well, shit

Is there any hope for court intervention?

[Yupster]

46. I don't think so because

they didn't go after a single minority Representative. In fact they packed the minority districts with more minorities to ensure at least as many minorities as before getting elected.

They're hoping to wipe out the Anglo Democrats in the surrounding districts.

The only court challenge that I could see winning would be on Civil Rights grounds, and I can't see it with this map.

[FlashHarry]

3. Wait. Can we 'redistrict' California?

Not that Arnold would sign it into law or anything. Since Texas is lost, can we redistrict any other states to counteract this? What about Michigan or Illinois?

[Padraig18]

7. We did re-district IL.

We shoved as "Dem" a plan down their throats as the courts would allow--- and they did allow it. Better not go to the well too often. :P

On edit: In fairness, we did only re-district ONCE. :bounce:

[arcos]

12. and Georgia too!

in fact, Georgia's plan was very criticized because of the gerrymandering Georgia democrats did. It didn't work out well though, as election results have showed (and there's Diebold too...) x(... hopefully this will cause a backslash in Texas.

[Padraig18]

16. Ours helped us a lot

It, plus voter disgust with almost 30 years of repuke mis-management alowed us to hit the political 'trifecta'--- Guv, Leg and SC! Woo hoo, us! :P

[goobergunch]

49. No we didn't

IIRC, we lost a seat in Illinois.

[NewJerseyDem]

61. Are you sure?

I thought the Daleys made a deal with the republicans to save Chicago districts and in the process sacrifice democratic congressman Phelps.

[goobergunch]

66. Correct from what I've heard (n/t)

[in_cog_ni_to]

11. I heard this morning

that redistricting Ca. is one of the first things Arnold is going to do. How he could work THAT to HIS benefit, is beyond me because the Ca. legislature is Democratic. The repukes will find a way so it works in their favor, I'm sure.

[goobergunch]

37. Initiative, maybe? (n/t)

[bhunt70]

5. I don't mean to rain on anyones parade...

Redistricting has happened more times than imaginable, and has benefitted both sides. This is nothing new or groundbreaking. Sure it was high profile this time and didn't help the democratic party, but the shoe has been on the other foot many times.

[TakebackAmerica]

8. Bhunt70

How many times has there been "REredistricting"?

[ibegurpard]

10. Bhunt70 obviously knows nothing about redistricting.

It hasn't been revisited legally without a court order EVER.

[bhunt70]

23. Every census they redistrict...

Im not sure what you are talking about. I don't know about the state level, but the U.S house of representatives this is something that has happened over and over again.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, so could you show me where I am wrong.

Lastly, there is no reason to attack me. Show me the error of my ways but keep your attacks to yourself.

[ibegurpard]

25. Obviously you are not sure what I'm talking about

Otherwise you wouldn't be calling what the Texas GOP is doing (which is RE-redistricting Texas) redistricting. Texas WAS redistricted following the 2000 census. The Texas GOP had their chance to have their say in the process and they dropped the ball. It fell to the courts to get it done in time for the 2002 elections. The districts were drawn, held up in court and in place for the elections. The Republicans want to change them now. This has NEVER happened and been upheld without a court order. Forgive my shortness with you but I worked on redistricting for a state legislature and I am really starting to get annoyed with people who are commenting about this when they have NO knowledge of the procedures and legal criteria that are in place to guide the redistricting process.

[bhunt70]

27. ok...

I didn't know they were re-redistricting, I can admit that.

As to you being short because you are getting annoyed...well thats not the best tactic to letting people know the truth. You'll turn more people off than you will let them in. If thats your job then maybe you should check yourself, because advice and information is supposed to be given freely to enlighten people, not to hold over their heads.

[ibegurpard]

29. Fine

And I suggest if you don't want to attract comments like mine and you are truly looking for information then you phrase your comments in the forms of questions rather than stating things that you know nothing about as if they are fact.

[bhunt70]

40. So I can bow down to your holiness?

Get off your high horse.

A typical "Yeah you are right about redistricting but in this case they are re-redistricting and the implications are far different than the normal redistricting case"

jesus christ sounds like you just wanna feel superior.

[ibegurpard]

59. I could care less about feeling superior

What pisses me off is people who know nothing about it spouting off opinions as if it is just another business as usual occurrence. This is UNPRECEDENTED!

[Yupster]

51. The districts were drawn by a court

The legislature whose job it is to redistrict is only doing it this one time.

If it turns out to have been illegal, the courts will strike it down, but wouldn't that be something for the court to take a power that belongs to the legislature and then rule that the legislature couldn't take its power back. Boy would that be something.

[ibegurpard]

58. The Legislature doesn't have an unlimited amount of time to get it done

They didn't get it done in time and so the courts did it...that is a normal procedure in most states.

[bhunt70]

21. I couldn't tell ya.

Truthfully, I couldn't tell you the times redistricting has occured OR Re-redistricting, but the act of redristricting is not uncommon.

If anyone wants to see a prime example of how it works in one of its craziest ways just take a look at the 1st district in North Carolina, which benefitted Democrats for the better part of 8-10 years (I can't remember when it happened). Im not holding a grudge, my mom actually benefitted from that. Im just pointing out how it is a common practice.

[Yupster]

47. What do you mean by

reredictricting?

[ibegurpard]

60. It was already done to account for population change after the census

The republicans are attempting to do it again.

[Yupster]

69. Oh

I thought it was a duty of the legislature.

[maha]

79. Here's some background for ya.

As a rule, states redraw congressional district maps every ten years, based on the census. This is to satisfy a requirement of the U.S. Constitution that districts be roughly equal in population. But maps can be redrawn more frequently if the state so chooses.

The Texas Legislature took a stab at redrawing its congressional district map after the 2000 census. But the Legislature was unable to agree on a map, so in 2001 a panel of three federal judges drew it. The Republicans were not happy with this map, but they raised no formal objections to it. The court-drawn map was approved by the Texas Attorney General, a Republican. The map was also approved by the U.S. Supreme Court, which declared it was in compliance with the Voting Rights Act.

Those trying to rationalize the Republican power grab say that the intervention of the judges was not fair. But in fact it is very common for state legislatures to fail to draw a map and for courts to take over. And, according to Paul Burka writing in Texas Monthly, "In the past fifty years, no state has acted to overturn a court-drawn redistricting plan."

Read remainder:

http://www.mahablog.com/2003.10.12_arch.html#1066085924505

[jeter]

9. The Dems gained elsewhere

I agree with bhunt70, this was the most visible. The GOp won't gain 7 seats. They may gain a few (3 to 5) and the Dems did well in CA, NJ, IL and elsewhere. All in all, it probably means a 1 or 2 seat GOP advantage nationwide. Not anything to get all upset about.

[ibegurpard]

14. Yes, there IS something to get upset about.

Do you actually know anything about redistricting? You don't just redistrict any old time you feel like it. It's done after the census to adjust for population growth or loss. It is NOT done every time there is a change in party in order to shore up a majority.

[goobergunch]

38. No

In the 2001-02 cycle...

CA: +1 D
NJ: No change
IL: -1 D

TX: -6/7 D +6/7 R

[NewJerseyDem]

63. Democrats didn't do well in New Jersey

There is a bipartisan commission that protected all incumbents, republicans and democrats. This is hardly good for the democrats, all it did was protect our 7 and protect the republican 6 even though this state is more than narrowly democratic.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

26. bhunt70 surely you know that redistricting is done ONLY every 10 years

after a CENSUS is taken!....the LEGAL texas redistricting was completed in 2001 after the 2000 census...these fucking republicans did an ILLEGAL redistricting....they STOLE AGAIN something that they can NOT ever win legally!!!!

[bhunt70]

28. yes I commented on that in a later post.

...

[ElsewheresDaughter]

42. ahh yes you did...sorry i didn't see it..so you do understand dem outrage

[TankLV]

84. You are confused.

Redistricting was already done - legally - just after the 2000 census - as is mandated. To redistrict TWICE in just over 2 years AGAIN is ILLEGAL! Any redistricting previously done to benefit dems and repukes is TX as well as other states was done ONLY EVERY TEN YEARS as mandated by the constitution. What is BLATENTLY illegal is that they are DOING IT A SECOND TIME, WHICH IS BLATENTLY ILLEGAL.

That is the issue that they should argue it on!

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. I hate republicans.

bastards just can't do things by the rules, can they? We can only hope the judge the Dems get when they go to court is not another neo-con....but for some reason I think the repukes have the judge covered too.

SURELY they can't get away with this bullshit!

[goobergunch]

13. I posted this last night in LBN

and my thread only got about 20 replies. Guess people don't care....

:shrug:

[Padraig18]

20. I don't think many visit LBN like you and I do. n/t

[Faygo Kid]

15. This and Arnold = continuation 2000

Just as in Florida, this is how GWB will regain the White House, and GOP gets Congress. They are leaving nothing to chance (or the electorate). Now the GOP controls the levers of government in California. Look for more of the same to the end of the year, when they will back off from these kind of flagrant attempts and have their championship fundraisers who own vote tally computers (see: Ohio) quietly fix the machines.

[spinbaby]

17. Oh f*&# a duck

Ever since they stole the big one in 2000 they think they can steal everything in sight.

[Spazito]

18. I hope there is a hold on the actual implementation of the re-districting.

until the court process is complete. With luck that will take past 04.

[Nederland]

22. Change the rules nationally

This redistricting shit has got to stop, and yes, the Dems pull this crap almost as often as the Repukes. The solution is to do nationally what Iowa does locally: have a non-partisan group define district borders instead of elected officials.

In Iowa, the process works like this. Civil service-like technicians make the first draft of the district lines. These staff are not allowed to consider incumbents' home addresses or to use the party affiliation of voters in considering district lines. The proposed district lines are sent to state lawmakers for approval or disapproval - the legislature is not permitted to amend the proposal. The courts are empowered to step in if there is no agreement.

The result of this is method is that Iowa almost always has competative races, unlike states where sitting legislators get to pick their own district lines.

Voters should pick their legislators, not the other way around.

[mndemocrat_29]

32. I really like Iowa's system

However, I think that that kind of system should be implemented at the state level, not national.

[Yupster]

52. It would be best if

both sides agreed to throw the numbers into a computer and tell the computer to make the most compact districts it can with equal numbers in each.

However that would be ruled illegal in the courts.

[ibegurpard]

62. You have a point about redistricting being political

HOWEVER, this is NOT redistricting...this is RE-redistricting and I have NEVER encountered an instance where Democrats have done this.

[TankLV]

85. Stop saying that the "dems also do it" . THAT IS A LIE!

Dems NEVER have re-redistricted like the repukes are doing!

ONLY ONCE EVERY TEN YEARS is the law. What the repukes are doing is ILLEGAL and UNPRECEDENTED!

[ibegurpard]

24. A little information for people who don't seem to know much about this

Let's get something straight folks: what the Texas GOP did was NOT redistricting...it was RE-redistricting. The state had already been redistricted to adjust for the population changes. I worked on redistricting for a state legislature and in my studies of case law about it I did NOT find a case where a court upheld a legislature going back and doing it for no reason. The Texas GOP is trying to spin that since the legislature is given the task and didn't fulfill it the first time around, that it should be legal for them to do it again. Well, they didn't do it in time for the 2002 elections because the Republicans didn't want to compromise and so it fell to a court to do it. The districts drawn were upheld in court and were in place for the 2000 elections. There is NO REASON that the state should be RE-redistricted.

[Padraig18]

31. The courts

I seriously doubt that the courts will appreciate this little display of Repuke hubris, and suspect that they will invalidate it, don't you?

[ibegurpard]

34. I sincerely hope so

I cannot see how they can uphold it.

[Padraig18]

36. Nor do I

All the judges I've ever met get VERY testy when their rulings are challenged, and if this isn't a challenge, I don't know what could so be construed as one. :thumbsup:

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. I know what you're saying

but, who's to say they don't have a judge that they have paid a mighty sum of $$$ who would be more than happy to do the bidding of Tom Delay and his gang. You know, like the SCOTUS did for Bush. I put NOTHING past these people...ever!

[knight_of_the_star]

44. If they do that

And trace the bribe that will make the GOP look even worse. And all it takes to take down corruption is a devoted and clever DA.

[in_cog_ni_to]

54. Oh, you mean they would investigate

like they're doing with the CIA leak? :eyes: <sarcasm> :7

I hope you're right!

[ibegurpard]

30. Also, let's not forget that they pulled the same shit in Colorado

And are likely to try it elsewhere if the courts uphold it.

[mndemocrat_29]

35. Does anyone know which candidates have been relocated

I've been trying to find out which representatives this affects.

[goobergunch]

39. Here's a map

http://www.tlc.state.tx.us/research/redist/pdf/map_plan01374c.pdf

Which pretty much affects every white Democrat in Texas.

[bhunt70]

41. I think 13 and 19 are my favorites.

They really stretched for those.

[goobergunch]

48. 19 combines Charlie Stenholm (D) and Randy Neugebauer (R)...

in a very Repuke district. I don't know 13 off-hand, but my guess is it takes votes away from Dems by throwing a few Dem voters into a Repuke district.

[mndemocrat_29]

43. Thanks goobergunch!

n/t

[Yupster]

53. Pretty much every White Democratic Representative

Edwards, Hall, Stenholm, Frost, Sandlin (can't remember the other two).

The idea is to wipe out the Anglo and moderate faces on the Democratic side.

[NoPasaran]

55. Lloyd Doggett (Austin)

And Travis County is gerrymandered into three districts that stretch across half the state.

[Yupster]

56. I think that's Craddick's way of getting even

for the Democratic redictricting ten years ago which split little Midland among three districts across half the state.

If each district has 550,000 people, it's still hard to believe that a city of 90,000 could be split into three districts. I think that was just done to spit in Craddick's eye 10 years ago. Well, now he's Speaker of the House.

[A_Tra]

57. What I

dont understand, is how it can be acceptable for there to be a state in which all statewide offices are of the GOP, where Dubya will win the state in a landslide, and yet we have a majority in the Congressional delegation. I think I would raise my eyebrow if the Pubs had a congressional majority in California.

[goobergunch]

64. The Repukes have a majority delegation in Illinois and Pennsylvania

My major problem with this is that it's re-redistricting.

[NewJerseyDem]

65. Republicans have a majority in Connecticut

That state is hardly conservative. The reason the democrats win is that they are moderate to conservative democrats that have developed strong community relations. Now the main purpose of the map isn't just to make the districts more republican but also to put the democratic congressman in areas that they have never represented and where they don't know the people.

[NewJerseyDem]

67. Republicans want to do this in California

Recall reignites GOP call for redistricting

http://www.thehill.com/campaign/101403_redistricting.aspx

First-term Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) will spearhead an effort to revamp California’s redistricting process — and slash at least 10 Democratic seats — by tapping into the anti-incumbent spirit of last week’s recall.

Nunes said he has the backing of Republican governor-elect Arnold Schwarzenegger.
“Before Schwarzenegger won, I didn’t know if it was possible right away, but now I think it’s possible,” he said.

The plan calls for taking the redrawing of congressional and state districts out of the hands of the state Legislature and turning it over to a bipartisan commission of former judges. Previous failed efforts at changing the system incorporated similar provisions.

[Yupster]

68. This should be done, but not

just in California. Redistricting should be made non-partisan everywhere. With computers it could be easily done.

[A_Tra]

70. ^^But

how would a computer purely crunching numbers deal with minority representation?

[Yupster]

71. It wouldn't,

see my post # 52.

[Zhade]

86. The HELL you will, bitch!

We're not even done fighting the recall - or Florida Redux, as I call it - there's no way in HELL we'll let them try RE-redistricting!

Fucking Republican traitors. They have to cheat to win.

[Hippo_Tron]

72. Redistricting needs to be done in a different way...

The lack of competitiveness for control of the House of Representatives is rediculous. We controlled it for 50 years for god's sake. Republicans will have had 10 years coming up. I don't know exactly how this could be fixed but something needs to be done so that there's actually an election.

[NewJerseyDem]

73. Texas Democrats Look at New Map and Point Out Victims

This is a good New York Times article. It seems to say that Stenholm, Doggett, Frost, Lampson, Edwards, and Turner are the ones that will be most at risk. It doesn't mention Sandlin so I guess he might survive and it says that Gene Green and Chris Bell also have good shots at winning. It doesn't mention Ralph Hall either and I don't really care if he wins but if he retires then we will certainly lose that seat completely.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/14/national/14TEXA.html

With members of Congress and political interest groups taking their first close look at the lines that have bedeviled the Texas Senate and House of Representatives since spring, outrage was answered by derision as the long dispute moved into a new phase, this one likely to be resolved only by the courts.

Gov. Rick Perry announced late Monday that he had signed the bill, which received final passage in the Texas Senate on Sunday night along largely partisan lines, 17 to 14.

Political scientists and other analysts on Monday identified 8 of the 17 Texas Democrats in Congress whose seats seem at risk under the remapping. Another district created around Midland, in West Texas, seemed clearly earmarked for the Republicans, who hope to pick up as many as seven seats next year. This would raise the number of Texas Republicans in the House to as many as 22 from the current 15.

[Yupster]

74. Hall is in

a completely new Republican district. I think more than half the voters will be new to him. He's 80. I bet he retires.

[mrbill]

77. ralph was my congress critter.

he's been saying he will retire unless chimpy asks him to run again.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

76. Thanks NJD, there are several interesting things here

The main one being the "minoritization" of the Democrats in Texas.
Looks like there's a new southern strategy afoot here, and it isn't exactly new either.

I think the whole thing will be shot down in court- as Martin Frost says here: "They made the decision to shoot the moon. They may wind up with zero."

[FrenchieCat]

75. I really really getting tired

of these god-dog-on Repug "Makeovers"! I want this country Back...and I wanted back Now!

[Zan_of_Texas]

78. Re-redistricting combines nicely with rigged machines

if you are Rs.

See, if there are ten-year records of vote patterns in a district, and all of a sudden the R gets 20% more than ever before, eyebrows might be raised.

But, if you gerrymander the districts beyond all recognition and THEN the R suddenly gets 20% more than ever before, people can just say, "Oh, it was that clever Tom DeLay and his tiny men, redrawing the maps." With no past history, they can more easily disguise the results of voting machine fraud.

Rs.....making the perfect crime just a little more perfect.

[FDRrocks]

80. F THE BUGMAN COUP!

Go to hell Delay.

[okieinpain]

81. dems should run repugs in these districts. if we win 1 or two

the repugs would shit a brick.

[carpetbagger]

82. Here's why this is a good thing...

(1) It won't happen. They've specifically designated Anglo white voters as a "community of interest", making for them a district that goes 300 miles from the capital in Austin to the heavily Latino Rio Grande Valley. Since the courts are charged with preventing Texas from reverting to its past practices of limiting minority representation, this type of thing would be of interest to them.

(2) It's set up deep fissures in the GOP, and in the electorate. Two things here. First, the redistricting was about more than GOP vs. Dem, it was also about oil vs. agriculture. The 19th district was given over to oil interests (centered in Midland), which has completely demoralized a large number of politicians and voters in West Texas. No, these districts aren't going democratic any time soon, but it's created a whole class of republicans who aren't too keen on playing the tune that comes from the party leadership. The second thing is that Perry is now absolutely wide open to attack. This has probably set in motion his defeat in the next general election he runs in, whether that be for governor or senate in 2006.

[Lone_Wolf_Moderate]

83. The Repubs steal another one...

it's amazing to me that despite the fact that the REpublicans got what they wanted, they will most assuredly gloat, and blame the Democrats for trying to screw with the rules. This nonsense has to end.