The Freepers on Ali getting the Medal of Freedom today. Interesting.

[Faygo Kid]

Quite the debate. Many for, many against, many torn. Not a usual Freeper discussion. I rip them mercilessly, and ask them to bring it on. But this is a First. Many Freepers are obviously very bitter Vietnam vets. My thanks to them for their service. Now start being skeptics. Anyway, this is not typical, so don't be typical here and rip me for posting it. Check it.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1518976/posts

[occuserpens]

1. their terimology is quite telling

"mooselimbs"

[Ptah]

2. Ali is still one of my heros.

He refused the war.
On religious grounds.
Went to jail rather than kill.

:patriot:

[TahitiNut]

7. He didn't run to Canada, hide in Daddy's defense business, ...

... pull strings to get in the National Guard, become a professional student, or turn tail in the many ways guys did those days. He stood up, made a choice, and faced the consequences. I'm a Viet Nam Veteran and draftee and I can support his choice.

[Ptah]

8. My 1970 number was #26

I wished I had the fortitude to stand like Ali did.

I ended up enlisting in the USAF, thinking I could avoid
the jungle.

[Faygo Kid]

11. God bless you. My number in 1970 was 247.

I am glad beyond words that you are still here, same age. Why did I luck out, and you didn't? I did have to fill my pants in 1969, the first year of the lottery, when we were all confused, and my birthday, Sept. 14, was number 1 in the first lottery (you can look it up). But, then I understood it was the year we turned 19. And apparently, it was "we." Thank you. Don't know what else to say, except we all have to work to get ourselves out of a far more fraudulent war than LBJ ever gave us. Worst. President. Ever. And thanks, again.

[Ptah]

13. Yeah, bro

Turbulent times.

The current crop of young'uns don't quite understand.

I hope we can somehow convince these kids.

A bit of trivia:

What do these three historical figures have in comon:

Lyndon Baines Johnson.

James Jones.

Ronald Reagen.






















They all grew up in the same denomination:

First Christian (Disciples of Christ) Church.

[berni_mccoy]

20. Wow! So did I... not sure what to think about it...

[Ptah]

21. Me too.

It is difficult to resolve all that.

[Don Claybrook]

30. Please help me understand the draft #'s

I was born in 1969. All my life I've heard about the draft numbers, but I never understood how they worked and didn't ask long ago, when I should have.

I know lower numbers meant you were more likely to be drafted, but how exactly did that work? Was it some sort of system whereby 1000 people had #1, 1000 had #2, and so on, and when they needed more draftees in Vietnam, they'd cycle up through the numbers?

Thanks for your help.

[RobertSeattle]

3. Urg - thanks.... I think

"Cassius Clay is a draft DODGING, racist, POS.
He has earned the scorn of all thinking Americans.
But of course he is held up now as some sort of superior person.
Because of his RACE he is "untouchable".
Our BROTHERS died while he posed. "

And W? Chirp Chirp Creeeeek Creeeeek

[Faygo Kid]

5. Of course that was posted. But there were others. That was interesting.

Yes, I despise the Freepers, etc. etc. I found this interesting. And I could post many posts from there tonight admiring Ali, as you did from a bitter lunkhead. So what. That proves nothing. Again, this was interesting. And I, like a lot of Freepers, apparently, remember Ali having the courage to say no. That's why I posted this. And it is indeed posted there, and the very first time I have ever - ever - given it up for the Freepers. And I respect those who continue to drink the Kool-Aid about Vietnam, and who actually served, and yet continue to drink it about Iraq (What is it all about, at this point?). I don't understand their lack of skepticism. More cannon fodder, guys? C'mon. Start asking questions. These are not your father's Republicans. Anyway, it may not be easy for many there to post in support of Muhammad Ali, but they are doing so, and maybe there is something to listen to there.

[RobertSeattle]

12. Viet Nam was the first war we truly "lost"

Seems like for some of them they can't get over it. Even though an (R) was in charge for the last 5 years of the war, they still blame the (D)'s who ended up opposing it.

[Ptah]

15. I see it as the political class that did it to us,

rather than any one party.

They all sold us down the river.

bastards.

[TahitiNut]

17. It was a betrayal, quite simply.

Simply stated, I see a hierarchy of responsibility/authority in a democratic society. It goes...
{God ->} The People -> Elected Officials -> Military Service

Even when The People abdicate their responsibility and Elected Officials usurp authority (behind a facade of deception and misinformation), it's just not the military's job to mutiny. Yet that is precisely what we were 'blamed' for not doing by those whose responsibility it was to control their own governance. No matter what other opinions folks might have of those days, this part is undeniable, imho.

We're seeing the same failures to take responsibility today. It's "Let George Do It" all over again.

Democracy isn't a spectator sport.

[Ptah]

19. I'm confused by your post.

Suffice it to say:

We were FUCKED.



:hippie: :toast: :kick: :shrug:

[Catrina]

22. That Freeper must hate draft dodger

Dick (I had better things to do) Cheney and George (AWOL) Bush, or maybe even (god forbid) Rush (anal cyst) Limbaugh, not to mention Bill ('I was on the battlefield' O'Reilly, 'Oh, Really? *lol*), to name but a few of the current crop of warmongers.

[kevinbgoode]

4. These people are brain dead

I have never read so much self-centered, egotistical white trash nonsense in my life. . .their arrogance, even in relating to each other, is amazing. And naturally, based on nothing but their own admiring reflection in the mirror.

[aden_nak]

6. So just to be clear on this. . .

Ali objects to Vietnam, goes to jail and serves his time, and that's dishonorable.

Bush gets his daddy to buy his way into the Air Guard, gets drunk, and is handed an oil company, and that's A-OK?

Anyone who supports Bush and has the balls to call someone ELSE a draft dodger needs to take a look at where their loyalties lie. Buying your way into the Air Guard, and then not even fulfilling your duty, is draft dodging.

Now me, I wasn't alive during Vietnam, and you can bet that if I had been I'd have dodged the draft then, just like I will be ready to dodge the draft for Iraq if and when it comes. On the other hand, I would have gone to World War II if it'd been in the cards for me, because that's a conflict that I believe (unfortunately) needed to be fought.

Thus, the difference between a consciencious objector and a "draft dodger". The only draft dodgers I have a problem with are the ones who were beating the war drums at the time. The swinesucking chickenhawks who figure everyone else's life is better spent than theirs.

[AlCzervik]

9. this one here

To: george76
First of all many Freepers might have last hard feelings against Ali for him objecting to going to Vietnam, but Ali has done great work in his fight against his Parkisons and has serviced quietly as its spokemen for years and one thing about Ali he has not turned his sickness into a matter to have a national pity party or called for using the unborn for junk science research unlike some others we know, for that alone I think I could look past his lack of going to Vietnam and Ali has made several trips in the past to visit wounded and sick trips from what I have heard, I think he visited Walter Reed about a year ago if I remember correctly.


33 posted on 11/09/2005 2:45:16 PM PST by Trueblackman (Terrorism and Liberalism never sleep and neither do I)
< Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies >

Bush voting chickenhawk Freepers pissed at Ali for not going to vietnam? ok, does anybody spot the irony.

[LSK]

25. holy run-on sentence batman!!!

[Straight Shooter]

10. To my understanding, Ali and Presley respected one another.

They may have even been friends, I can't quite remember. But if Elvis could admire someone like Ali, and if Ali could admire someone like Elvis, and since both men responded to the Vietnam War based on their own conscience and convictions, then maybe the fweepers should just get over it.

edit: I mention Elvis Presley because I think he's some kind of folk hero to the fweepers.

[kskiska]

23. Elvis didn't go to Vietnam

It was 1958 and he served his time in Germany, and he didn't go into the service willingly, either. It was just a matter of time till he was drafted and The Colonel thought it would be a good move if he joined up. He didn't especially enjoy his Army days, but he got to bring his Memphis Mafia to Germany with him, where he lived off-base.

[Straight Shooter]

26. Thank you for the clarification.

It was always my impression that he joined willingly.

"Memphis Mafia"? I don't think I've heard that term before, LOL. Goes to show you how much attention Elvis got from me. I like him, thought his voice was wonderful, but never bought an album. (I did buy that song "In the Ghetto," which was one of his finest.)

Do you know if he and Ali were actually friends, though? I'm curious.

[kskiska]

29. I doubt Elvis had any real friends

He was too isolated. He may have met Ali in Vegas, but I doubt there was any deep friendship. I was a teenager back in the 50s and he was quite a different person than the one you probably remember. He was totally different than anyone who came before him. He's now remembered as a caricature - the fat guy in the white jumpsuit.

I'm no longer what you'd call a "fan," but there is a two-book set on Elvis by Peter Guaralnick ("Last Train to Memphis," and "Careless Love") that explains what he was and what he became and why.

[Straight Shooter]

31. Thanks for the insight. Famous people are rarely what they appear. eom

[NinetySix]

14. I was hoping you meant This Ali:

Ali G: What if da terrists crash a train into da White 'ouse?
CIA Deputy Chief: That's impossible.
Ali G: Yeah, but what if it 'appen?
CIA Deputy Chief: But there are no tracks that lead to the White House.
Ali G: OK, but what if da terrists is buildin' dem at night?

Thank God SOMEONE out there is thinking!

[prescole]

16. Ali didn't dodge the draft--he stood firm and won in the long run

And he gave up the heavyweight title to stand up for his beliefs.
When he dies, I have a feeling Ali will get a send-off of Princess Di proportions...including from the Muslim world.
He's a hundred times the man Bush is.

[Faygo Kid]

18. Yessir. You are so right.

One of my greatest heroes. He paid the price, without excuse. Don't underestimate his impact on civil rights, as we mourn Rosa Parks. Ali was powerful. As a young, smart Cassius Clay, he was an incredibly disturbing image in the Kennedy Administration. One of the greatest Americans of all time, and I fear the end is near. I pray not. You are perceptive and right. Thanks.

[MojoXN]

24. My favorite:

"So much for Mr. Neoconservative, George Bush. I'll never work or vote for another member of that incompetent family again. They'd be nowhere but for the real President, Ronald Reagan."

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

SUUURRRE, Freep. You suddenly don't support Bush because your racist ass doesn't like seeing Muhammed Ali honored. What, Bush's* callous disregard for the residents of New Orleans wasn't too much, but this is? Oh, and "real" President Reagan...

"I pledge allegience to the flag of the United States of Reagan. And to the Reagan, for which it stands, one Reagan under Reagan, indivisible, with liberty and Reagan for all."

On the other hand, I've never seen a Freep post before that was so gramatically correct, and properly spelled and punctuated! All right, confess! Which DUer is over there, pretending to be a Freep?

:evilgrin:

MojoXN

[ourbluenation]

27. Try and guess which is my post!!!! eom

hee hee

[Bigmack]

28. I'm VERY suspicious about the "vets"...

.. in freepland. They say things like no real Viet Vet I ever talked to. Lotta "spit on" stories and how the hippies & Jane Fonda lost the war for Uncle Sam.

Dumbshits can be vets, too, and that Kool-aid is sure popular these days. But I think a lot of those people are posers.