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flowomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:14 AM
Original message
a screwup with paper ballots/optical scanners:
this is from my local newspaper about a race for a local district justice seat. We use paper ballots here and optical scanners to count the votes.... but as you can see, even that is subject to errors/manipulation. I don't think there was fraud here, but you can see the potential. Of course, you can always go back and check the paper ballots -- which is being done here.

Recount
By John Hilton, Nov 10, 2005

Cumberland County commissioners say a ballot-counting mistake may change the outcome of the magisterial district judge race in Carlisle.

Officials gathered this morning to begin the a lengthy recount that was expected to last all day. And a hearing began about 8:45 a.m. before county Judge J. Wesley Oler to authorize the recount.

The candidates — Republican Kathy Keating and Democrat Jessica Rhoades — were notified of the vote discrepancy Wednesday evening.

Unofficial county vote totals showed Keating won by a 1,625-1,451 margin.

However, Commissioner Gary Eichelberger says a programming error by the county’s ES&S voting machines awarded all votes by Democrats casting a straight-ticket ballot to Keating. The problem involved a software coding error in which Keating’s political affiliation was mislabeled.

“As they were getting the counts in on election night, we had a couple people watching the monitors and somebody noticed Kathy Keating coming in as a ‘D,’” Eichelberger says. “We knew right away that we needed to be looking at something there.”
Keating (Submitted Photo)

The recount “could change the outcome,” he adds.

http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/11/10/news/news02.txt
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. For paper ballots, all you need is a videocamera pointed at the counting
at all times.

That would deter "mistakes" from almost anyone.
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Pacifist Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. And yet people will still place their faith in these systems.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
3. Another ES&S "error" that "accidentally" flips votes to the Repub.
Why am I not very surprised?

At least this time, there were paper ballots,
so the true result can still be determined.
How many other places did this happen
without detection? We will NEVER know!

ALL computerized "vote counting systems" need to
go into the dustbin. Period.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. So now they must resort to a hand recount of the paper ballots.
So I ask myself, why bother with the ES&S machines in the first place? Is counting ballots such an onerous task that we must leave it to machines?

Even if we have, on full scale national elections, a hundred million votes to count, when the counting is done by tens of thousands of ballot committees it does not place an undue burden on anyone. I don't personally know anyone who is incapable of counting to a thousand, and it doesn't take all that long.

Technology for its own sake is the bane of modern life.
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insane_cratic_gal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. ES&S systems is the Brother of Diebold
Systems.

Guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
5. Oh, but of course
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
7. As a software programmer, this is a very easy mistake to make...
when using a simple if-elseif-else type construction. Very common. Should have it been tested? Of course. Doesn't software get tested? Unfortunately, not as often or thoroughly than you think.

Is it automatically a conspiracy? Of course not.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. But it is curious how these errors favor repubs 98% of the time. nt
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tx_dem41 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Can you back that number up? n/t
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Nope. Admitted exagerration, but if you check out the election
fraud forum you will find people who can produce numbers showing a disproportionate number of "errors" favoring the repubs. Something in the 90% range, IIRC.

The truth is out there.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Probably the same error existed last year and flipped the straight
Dem votes to Bush! I'd feel better about having my vote counted if it was being done by 'Rain Man'!!
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jim3775 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
11. There was a problem with paper ballots and optical scanners here too
It was a city council thing, a bunch of votes got miscounted so they just opened the boxes that the paper ballots drop into and counted the paper ballots by hand.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-10-05 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Happened last year with ESlate
We need to follow these through to the end and get an explanation for every single one of them. "Glitch" is not a good enough explanation for our votes, thus the reason to call it "Glitchgate". That will get these machines opened up to see what is happening to the code.

http://www.evoting-experts.com/index.php?m=200410
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