I refuse to believe that Abu Al-Zarkawi (sp?) is such a fan of Bush

[burythehatchet]

that he would single-handedly take all the world's attention away from the administration's scandals. Sorry, it does not fly. Yes, there are bad terrorists in the world, they are our government. Zarkawi is simply the next in a series of super-villains that have appeared when needed. This is bullshit.

[fooj]

1. Yep. Stinks to high heaven, doesn't it?

Peace.

[Beelzebud]

2. It's 1984, and Zarqawi is Goldstein. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. You meay believe what you want

but AQ has issued a fatwah against all moderate arab governments, guess what Jordan is? So they work on their agenda and we work on ours..

[burythehatchet]

5. You are working off the assumption that AQ is distinct from

the BFEE. Little me can't point to specific evidence supporting the suggested collaboration between the two crime organizations, but simple logic tells me that what's good for AQ is good for Bushie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Ok do some readying first

AQ was formed in the late 1980s after the defeat of the Ruskies in Afghanistan. In many ways they are our own creation, that said, the mythology they have crated (we brought down one super power, which OBL probably believes) is not unlike the mythology that the BFEE controls them.

They are a nationalist Islamist movement that was radicalized, truly radicalized, by Gulf War 1 and the entry of US CHRISTIAN troops into the Kingdom of SA... they want to create a caliphate and roll back the clock on history.

By the way, they are rael, they are a cell based organization and at this point killing bin ladin will mean killing a symbol. Like it or not they are real, and working on their own agenda. Does it help the bushies at times... yes, but they are working on their own agenda and never ever forget that...

Learn some hisory, they remember things such as the defeat of the Turks in WW I, and the failure of the Arabs to keep Zaragoza in 1492, we don't

[burythehatchet]

17. very presumtuous of you to assume you know my reading habits

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Well saying that they are controlled by the BFEE

is highly presumptous.. the best case you could make is that OBL went rogue...

[burythehatchet]

22. First of all

I never said who controls who, I wouldn't know. I suggest a collaboration that allows them both to exercise their agenda, with the agendas being quite complimentary. (Military/narco/industrial complex)

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. This is what you are missing, they are not cooperating

at all... again I beg of you do some readying. Their agendas are 180 from each other.

[burythehatchet]

25. They both need anarchy to prevail

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. No they don't

one desires an American Empire, the other a 12th century Caliphate... they are not working for the same end.

I wish people were able to separate the myths from facts, and understand AQ IS dangerous, and will kill you in an instnant if it advances the fundamentalist cause

now bushcho is dangerousn for other resons, and they will also kill you if it advances their get rich scheme, but they are not working together

What happened yesterday in Jordan has nothing do with Bush... insofar as tehy don't care for our internal politics.. and that is the rub, they will continue to happen.. we have entered a new age, and a very dangerous age... and yes some of it is blowback but now it is its own animal, oh and at this point we can agree to disagree... for I will not be able to change your point of view, and you will not be able to change mine

[burythehatchet]

29. Let's just say that if the US was truly intent on stopping AQ

then the US would be at war with Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. Yet these countries openly support AQ. The story of AQ Khan is a trult exemplary story of how closely connected these two groups have been. True, they have different ends, but the means to their ends is the same. That is why they both benefit from terror, staged or otherwise.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. yes that is true, we would be going after SA

but the SA have us by the balls, (oil) and after 9.11 we came this close to war with the Pakis... US Forces had orders to shoot and ask questions later... if and when anybody entered that water... I susepct the only reason we have become such good budies of the pakis is... we need a place for the oil to go, and they have nukes.

[Al-CIAda]

47. "but the SA have us by the balls, (oil)" -So is that why we did not

invade Iraq?

Does not compute. No, I think the PNAC, Carlye crowd and other 'non-official entities' (Sibel Edmonds' words) had more to do with what and where 'we' attack.

[tatertop]

11. Who else might you suspect?

Let's just say it's not the 'Qaida.

[Union Thug]

4. which version of Zarkawi, I wonder, Beta? Release candidate 1?

I mean, this guy comes in a variety of flavors and serves a variety of purposes.

[burythehatchet]

6. Abu 3.0...service pack 2 n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

7. Are you saying our boogeyman-du-jour is manufactured?

That our "war on terror" is being puffed up for, uh, less-than-noble reasons?

That the Bush Administration might not be telling 100% of the truth?

That the histrionic 'orange alerts'-- and the maintaining of a constant state of near-apopleptic fear in the minds of the US populace at the thought of swarthy dark men in turbans hiding under every rock or in every laundry hamper might be... um... what's the word... bullshit?


Good GOD MAN, WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?

[burythehatchet]

8. For the benefit o Agent Mike

I would never suggest such a thing. That would make me part of the fringe element.

[tularetom]

9. They need somebody to demonize

to keep the dumshits scared enough to go along with their bullshit. They had the perfect guy in bin laden but they can't use him anymore because it's so obvious that they haven't caught him. enter Zarqawi - if he didn't exist they'd have to invent him. Hmmmmmm, you don't think?

[madrchsod]

10. there is no reason for abu al-zarkawi to attack jordan

of course i am assuming he or his group exists. it makes more sense that rummy`s special ops are trying to justify moving into jordan and compromising their neutrality. can we all say-cambodia?

[tatertop]

12. That shoe seems to fit.

When we blame the big Z, I start looking at me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Yes there is, HE IS JORDANIIAN

and there is a fatwhah signed by OBL against his government, do some research before blogging

[applegrove]

13. The world doesn't do things because of what is going on in the USA.

Take a step back.

Islamo-fascists set bombs in the middle east for 20 years. When they saw it was not garnering them the popular support in the middle east for islamo-fascism, they then started to target the West in the mid 1990s. They have been shut down in the West - so now they target the "West" in the Middle East.

Someone should have told them Radisson was a french-canadian explorer and not an American.

[The_Mule]

14. I refuse to believe that Abu Al-Zarkawi is a real person.

Or, if he is real, that he's some kind of evil genius.

[Roland99]

19. Richard Clarke was spinning this as 9-11...as in 9-11-05 (European format)

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. And Richard Clark has a little more info than you do

I trust him... sorry, he knows his stuff and has only been dealing wiht this for how long? Oh yes a profesional career

[Roland99]

24. He's been spewing this "Al Qaeda in Iraq" crap just like the other parrots

I've lost confidence in him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. That is befause about 10% of fighters are AQ and foreigners

by the way suicide bombings are not an Iraqi thing

[Roland99]

28. They're not? Wow...I never knew that.

:eyes:


"Al Qaeda in Iraq" is a figment of the neocons' imagination. I don't doubt there's a group there that was associated with Zarqawi before his death but to call them "Al Qaeda in Iraq"?

Give me a John Stossel break!

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Ok from a US Colonel ret

10% or less of the fighters are foreigners, and they are the ones using martyrdom operations (suocide) Iraqis are donig teh rest, like all the AIDs, and in some cases becuse we killed theiss

There are many factions in Iraq, and one of them is AQ... I know you don't want to believe it, becuase it is far more comfortable to think that they are just propaganda... I wish they were propaganda, truly... but I choose to heed Tzun Tze, know thy enemy, know thyself.

[Roland99]

32. It could have been a group that's been in Jordan for years

Could have been some completely different group.

Within hours this administration is claiming it's Zarqawi. And who was helping to push this in the media? Simon Henderson, Senior Fellow at WINEP (PNAC 2.0)

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. Yuo are talking about Jordan

as I said in 1998 OBL issued a fatwah against the US, and one against SA , and one against Jordan,and one against Egypt, and one against Sadamn... Zarqaqi is a jordanian citizen and... there are cells of his movement have been there for years.

I am not surprised it happened... I expect more, on symbolic days for the Middle East and AQ...

[Roland99]

34. You say that like Zarqawi even exists and, if he does, is still alive.

He's a phantom.

He's been killed twice; had a leg amputated; had a collapsed lung; jumped out of a car (on that one leg).

The guy is freakin' Superman.


:eyes:

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I know how many times we have killed him

but the organization exists.

The Base, aka Al Qaida has taken existing organizations and organized under one banner. His organization goes back to the late 1980s, just like The Egyptian doctor, part of Islamic Jihad, had been part of that well before taking the XO post for Bin Ladin

The genious of Bin Ladin was to take all these organziations and give them a common goal. At this stage neither bin ladin or zarqawi are needed beyond symbolism.... the nature of Cell based movements

[Roland99]

39. I'm well aware of the history of Al Qaeda and how it's spread

HOWEVER, to immediately label as "Al Qaeda in Iraq" (which is a *-creation of a name) as responsible is irresponsible and could be wrong.

Al Qaeda isn't one all-encompassing organization. The name Al Qaeda has become a catch-all in the MSM.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. How about Zarqaqi has taken responsibitly, or that will not be

enough either...

We'd better agree to disagree..

[Roland99]

41. ;-)

[brindis_desala]

21. By creating super villains the US government adeptly

removes the discussion from any analysis of Western policy. Americans are fixated by personalities and childish good vs evil dichotomies. Zarqawi is a convenient illusion to distract from the stark reality that the West has long been playing a dirty double game in the Middle East, supporting each "side" as it suits its interests which is to prevent Arab nationalism from resurfacing while at the same time vilifying the Islamists. Osama and Zarqawi may or may not be the current players in this game but they remain useful distractions for the competing factions

[Neil Lisst]

35. al-Zarqawi is whoever the US govt. says he is ...

How can we ever trust the same people we know lied about things to get us into the war? Why should we believe this is al-Zarqawi? It may be, but how can we possibly know?

Who benefits most for this attack to occur now?

It's just as likely that whoever created the Niger forgery did this as to believe the elusive but omnipresent Zarqawi did it.

http://www.webcomicsnation.com/neillisst

[npincus]

36. it is a significant development in the region

if al-Zarqawi is now exporting terrorist operations from within Iraq to neighboring Arab countries. I think the backlash in the Middle East will be huge, and will motivate a crackdown on madrasses (sp?) and fire-breathing religious extremist leaders who inspire so many to jihad against the West. One can hope.

As far as the distracting from the many B*sh Plagues... do not fret! Do not worry! This will NOT help B*sh in the least. If anything, it will remind the public that 200+ billion dollars and 2050 American lives later (not to mention tens of thousands of permanently disabled), we have accomplished NOTHING in this foolish war of choice, but to make more terrorists, more violence, more death; because of our occupation, everything is WORSE.

And, perhaps now that al-Zarqawi is in the spotlight, a damaging story for Chimp will come back to haunt him: that he personally stopped our military from killing al-Zarqawi BEFORE the Iraq invasion... take a LOOK at this:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410270007

[Marr]

38. Zarqawi has become a marketing gimmick. A mascot.

Our own government uses him like McDonald's uses Ronald McDonald.

I've no doubt that Al Qaeda is real, international terrorism is real, etc., etc. But it seems that our government and big media interject the name "Zarqawi" more as a marketing ploy than anything else. The bogeyman is instantly blamed, and of course, gives us some sort of reason for being in Iraq. We're fighting "Zarqawi".

He really is our newest Goldstein.

[npincus]

42. that's silly

tell that to Nick Berg's dad- there's a charming video of his son's head being sawed off by "the marketing ploy" himself, circulating on the web, or tell it to the families of the thousands blown up by his fanatic minions- including those of the recently dead Jordanians.

Yes, B*sh is a sociopathic dick-head. Yes, he deserves many afterlives of torment roasting in the fiery pits of Hades for his crimes. You can even call him Zarqawi's life saver, read on:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200410270007

Not sure why so many Duers are saying Zarqawi doesn't exist. In fact, the new spotlight on him may be quite counter-productive to the Chimp, when the story of how Chimp balked on killing Zarqawi when he had the chance, so he could focus on the tragically stupid and unnecessary Iraq invasion, gets revisited. Also, doesn't Zarqawi's expansion of activities into neighboring Arab countries show the world that the Iraq invasion has accomplished nothing to defeat the "Terrists", and in fact has made everything WORSE.

[Marr]

45. Did you reply to me by accident? I didn't say the man doesn't exist.

I assume he does exist, and I'm even willing to assume he's involved in the violence in Iraq. I'm saying that our government blames things on Zarqawi when there's no evidence of Zarqawi's involvement.

They invoke the name "Zarqawi" constantly as a way of equating the Iraqi insurgency with terrorism.

[No Exit]

43. One blogger asked: "Why would he bomb 2 Palestinian-owned hotels?"

Apparently at least 2 of the bombed hotels in Jordan are Palestinian-owned.

I agree with you. It doesn't make sense.

We need to all face the FACT that we don't know for sure what is happening with these "terror" attacks, nor do we know WHO is really doing each one. Anyone who thinks they do know, I have just one question for you: Do you speak any middle eastern languages? If you don't, then I know you are as clueless as I am about the real story in each "terror" attack.

So, from my ignorance of the real facts, I have to start the difficult process of TRYING to figure out the truth. The first question I must ask is:

CUI BONO?? WHO BENEFITS??

Looks to me like George W. Bush was the beneficiary, at least on this side of the Atlantic. Does this mean Bush did it? NO. But it does cast doubt on assertions that his "enemies" did it.

Not to mention the fact that Jordan must of course have politics of its own which do not concern us Americans.

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. Most Jordanians are Palestinian... and most Palestinians are moderate

and secular. Many, especially in the business community are Christian.

If you want to know how deceitful the NeoCon community in the US truly is, given the fact that people like Charles Krauthammer are devoutly secular and responsible for the allegiance between Likud and the hard-core Christian right, consider how hostile Likud is toward Christians in the holy land, who are almost all Arab. Their attitude is very similar to the attitude "Tolerant, Secular" French have towards Algerian Muslims.

That is why Jordan has a comparatively moderate & secular government. Something like 60% citizens are Palestinian refugees, many of them 35% are Levantine Arabs (also comparatively moderate & secular) native to Amman & Moab region which forms Jordan... a tiny minority are Hashemite (Saudi Arabs descended from Mohammed who rule Jordan)

[Leopolds Ghost]

44. Emmanuel Goldstein LIEOP

Let 'im Escape (US-Allied and Occupied Kurdistan) on Purpose --

and whay didn't Kerry bring this up when folks asked his campaign to address this last year? IIRC, Shrum was responsible for the decision... he said something about how the average American coulen't
pronounce Zarqawi... the same rationale used by Dubya and Clinton advisers why OBL wasn't taken out when he (and the blind sheik) directly threatened to crash planes into buildings (including a specific threat against the GW Bridge)... I considered writing a letter to the editor of USN&WR about this in 2000 when the threats were glossed over by the CIA (they put it in "News In Brief" under the title "Garrison Kiellor's New Book")... of course nobody talks about the specific threats that made it into the media anymore... y'now the ones that made OBL's reputation as a super-villain... people knew very well he had a WTC fix, that's why Bush's secuity chief took a job at the WTC -- it was the plummest job in the security industry because everyone expected them to try again, and everyone knew they were planning to hijack planes. it wasn't just the Cole bombing... we all knew it was coming from text media and the MSM convinced the unread citizenry that it was never reported on except in classified documents.