Anybody had any experience with raw milk and dairy products?

[electricray]

I have been looking into it and it seems like Big Dairy is trying to get us not to pay attention to the benefits of it. I am considering joining a cow-share program and feeding my family raw milk products. Just trying to cover all the bases research-wise. Thanks for any info.

[raysr]

1. EEEEuk!

Lived and worked on a dairy. Raw milk sucks! Then if you separate it it's like water.

[electricray]

3. Wow. That is the first time I have heard such a negative review.

Duly noted, however. I will certainly give the quality of the product its due diligence. Thanks.

[raysr]

7. It's like anything else I

suppose, if you were forced into it as a kid you're not gonna have a good opinion of as an adult.

[jayctravis]

14. I enjoy milk a lot...

and tried a brand that is I guess closer to raw. The separation of the milk solids made it just a little creepy -- you're enjoying the milk and then *urk* a solid piece goes down your throat. I know you're supposed to shake it up, but I much prefer pasteurized and I guess homogenized.

[tenshi816]

45. Amen to that!

My grandparents were farmers and the only milk they had came straight from the cow, which meant that's what I had to drink when I was a kid spending my summers on their farm. I hated the stuff (and normally I'm a regular milk drinker). The only part of it I liked was the butter that my grandmother churned, but the milk itself...yuk.

[madrchsod]

8. used to visit my moms kin in iowa

when i was a kid-raw milk does suck...

[mandyky]

28. We just poured the cream off the top

I love raw milk. Have you ever had 2% or 1% - THAT tastes like water!

[begin_within]

2. Steuve's Dairy (now a spinoff of Alta-Dena Dairy) in California has

produced and sold raw milk for years, formerly under the name Alta-Dena, but now as Steuve's Dairy, they sell "certified raw milk" which is unpasteurized and unhomogenized, but they test the cows daily and they are extremely clean and careful in the processing. I drank it for several years with no ill effects, but I don't really drink milk any more so I haven't tried it lately.

[electricray]

5. Thanks. Do they happen to ship it outside of California?

And if so do you know what method they use to preserve freshness?

[begin_within]

33. It's unclear to me whether they are still in business or not, Alta-Dena

certainly still is in business, and their products are available in 47 states, but they don't sell raw milk anymore. They do have a lot of other high-quality milk products, but the raw milk that used to be sold as "Alta-Dena Dairy Certified Raw Milk" is not on their product list any more. The raw milk division was spun off into "Steuve's Dairy" but they have been harrassed continuously by the state of California and the county of Los Angeles, trying to put them out of the business of selling raw milk, even though there is no evidence of any health threat from their products.
When I got the certified raw milk from Alta-Dena, the cream was always floating at the top, and I just had to shake the container every time before pouring some out, to mix up the cream with the rest of it. It tasted exactly the same as regular whole milk to me.
http://www.altadenadairy.com

[raysr]

6. If its not

homogenized it gets stringy with the butterfat and like I said if you separate it turns blue it's so thin. Those were Jersey Cows where I was, highest butterfat content. Smells too.

[Digit]

20. I used to drink it when I lived in CA and loved it. n/t

[madrchsod]

4. if you want to get sick that`s a good way to do it.

you can`t keep raw milk and that is the reason why milk is pasteurized.

[electricray]

10. Check this out

pro-Raw milk site

Pasteurization destroys enzymes, diminishes vitamin content, denatures fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamins C, B12 and B6, kills beneficial bacteria, promotes pathogens and is associated with allergies, increased tooth decay, colic in infants, growth problems in children, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease and cancer. Calves fed pasteurized milk do poorly and many die before maturity. Raw milk sours naturally but pasteurized milk turns putrid; processors must remove slime and pus from pasteurized milk by a process of centrifugal clarification. Inspection of dairy herds for disease is not required for pasteurized milk. Pasteurization was instituted in the 1920s to combat TB, infant diarrhea, undulant fever and other diseases caused by poor animal nutrition and dirty production methods. But times have changed and modern stainless steel tanks, milking machines, refrigerated trucks and inspection methods make pasteurization absolutely unnecessary for public protection. And pasteurization does not always kill the bacteria for Johne’s disease suspected of causing Crohn's disease in humans with which most confinement cows are infected. Much commercial milk is now ultra-pasteurized to get rid of heat-resistant bacteria and give it a longer shelf life. Ultra-pasteurization is a violent process that takes milk from a chilled temperature to above the boiling point in less than two seconds.

[Psephos]

17. My advice is be casually skeptical of info from any "pro-" website

Jeezus, they make pasteurized milk sound like outflow from a cruise ship bilge tank.

Seriously, the internet is great for exposure to different points of view, but any pro-this-or-that site is going to give a one-sided view of an issue. That's the whole idea of an advocacy site. Among other things, such sites will trump up benefits, downplay risks, and make the alternative (in this case, pasteurized milk) sound either poisonous or evil. (Example: "processors must remove slime and pus from pasteurized milk by a process of centrifugal clarification.") Selective information can be more misleading than false information. We all want to believe in something...make sure you get good information from a neutral source before signing on to anything.

It seems to me there may be some benefits to raw milk, but there are also risks. (Why do you think dairies started pasteurizing milk in the first place?) Meanwhile, my own body, and the bodies of tens of millions of other people, attest that pasteurized milk can't be that bad.

Peace.

[electricray]

41. I agree that the pro- site was pretty dramatic about everything

That is kind of my reason for posting here. I was looking for a few honest replies from non-stake-holders. I talk to my parents and you'd think I told them I was looking into crack cocaine. They swear I'll get sick and die.

As for why dairies started pasteurizing in the first place, this is something I did a little research on. Apparently milk wasn't all that hot of an item before the industrial revolution. It was enjoyed on farms (raw) and city-folk drank primarily water, cider and ale. When industry started necessitating a different type of work force, the workforce started looking for different forms of beverage.

This is an article from a pretty resposibly pro- site. The article seems fair to both arguments:

Urbanization and industrialization in nineteenth-century America changed our drinking habits. First, urbanization coincided with a cultural shift away from breast feeding infants. Poverty and malnutrition, combined with a breakdown of informal, cooperative breast-feeding networks among rural women, often left urban mothers constitutionally or economically unable to breast feed their children. Second, some of the earliest food corporations, such as Nestle and Borden, literally capitalized upon the situation with mass advertising campaigns for infant formula. An industrial market for fresh milk was born, one that gradually expanded as its first customers grew up. Milk, sold condensed in infant formula or fresh from city dairies, became the promoted alternative to breast feeding.

Fresh milk first came to be supplied in nineteenth-century American cities through "swill dairies," urban dairies with confined cows fed off of waste from breweries. Needless to say, sanitary conditions in such dairies were less than hygienic, contributing to an urban child mortality rate approaching 50 percent in the 1840s. Rural children were much more likely to survive until adulthood. Early progressive reformers recognized that milk could transmit diseases, and they campaigned for "pure milk" and "country milk" throughout the country. Although "country milk" was made possible by the railroads, the health record of milk transported long distances remained little better than swill milk until refrigeration in the twentieth century. Urbanization and industrialization had created a mass demand for fresh milk, but it had also created a problematic supply chain for the product

He goes on to say that pasteurization was something of a sub-standard solution. It is a pretty good article.

[raysr]

21. Did you ever read the

warning letters with any meds you might be taking? Kinda sounds like that.

[salvorhardin]

22. Weston A. Price

The Weston A. Price Foundation is the registrant of that domain, as in Weston A. Price, DDS. Quackery.

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/holisticdent.html

[Snap]

29. Yes, mercury is good in the mouth.

Have you actually read the "quack" documentation? The U.S. department of Health and Human Services at work.

[electricray]

42. Whoa, slow down...all that stuff just went waaayyy over my head.

These guys are recognized widely as quacks? I just barely heard that name before yesterday. What is this about mercury? The post is a little cryptic to me being relatively uninformed.

[electricray]

51. There are those who would say that Quackwatch.org is...

in and of itself quackery. I'm not saying either side is 100% right, just that a google search reveals quite a few negative hits for Dr. Stephen Barret owner of Quackwatch and many other anti-alternative medicine sites. Here is an impression from one of his foes:

Dr. Stephen Barrett,

Amazing - your site is the pinnacle of quackery itself! Just one comment from many on your site:

"One of Abrams's many imitators was Royal Raymond Rife (1888-1971), an American who claimed that cancer was caused by bacteria. During the 1920s, he claimed to have developed a powerful microscope that could detect living microbes by the color of auras emitted by their vibratory rates. His Rife Frequency Generator allegedly generates radio waves with precisely the same frequency, causing the offending bacteria to shatter in the same manner as a crystal glass breaks in response to the voice of an opera singer. The American Cancer Society (ACS) has pointed out that although sound waves can produce vibrations that break glass, radio waves do not have sufficient energy to destroy bacteria." (Emphasis added.)

What utter rubbish is the American Cancer Society (ACS) chattering about now? As usual, without even lifting a finger they have become the authority on resonance medicine! Many rank armatures have been able to build their own Rife devices and have observed, via dark field microscopes, bacteria being destroyed through resonance. These are mostly the poor (pun indented) butchered and poisoned patients who have come from the traditional efficacy (??) and safety (??) tested medicine. Most had been given up to die but with the Rife/Bare, Beck, Clark and other modalities many have still managed to extend their lives or even cure themselves. Just imagine if they had been treated prior to all the butchering and poisoning - what the outcomes would have been. Can't imagine your love affair with mainstream medicine - its not all that it’s cracked up to be. Shouldn't Quack watch be concerned about this disgrace of mainstream medicine and doing their Quack watching in their own backyard? See the "The Farce of Physics" on how scientific the scientists really are. Most have been bought and paid for... and then there is greed, politics and egos leaving a precious few to carry out true honest scientific work, at great personal expense, in this incredibly disgusting environment.

Please don't think me crazy. I just happen to be wary of the claims of anyone (Quackwatch) seeming to defend a multi-billion dollar a year medical industry that seems to keep people sick more often than making them better. Not only that his debunking of different methods seems to center around some of the methods that Dr. Price used as opposed to actual contra-indications that his conclusions are true. I am open to the idea that Dr. Price may not be the best source if you are only going to trust one, but I think it is more important to note that nobody should trust only one source for any information. That is part of the reason I posted this topic here to begin with. That is also why I appreciate the resource you supplied regardless of my decision not to trust it as and end all source.

[raysr]

9. It won't keep very long either.

(like he said)

[upi402]

11. i used to do raw milk, and goats milk too, just rarely use organic now

my .02
some have trouble digesting it.

:hurts:

[sandnsea]

12. I like it

I don't know what kind of cow the milk came from, but I used to get it at a dairy in Montana. It was really clean. I liked it. Never had any problems. My daughter gets organic milk and she won't drink anything else now. To each his own I guess.

[jayctravis]

13. I don't know if raw milk would survive any sort of broad distribution...

we do drink pasteurized organic milk. A documentary report about hormones and pus in mass-produced milk put us off the normal brands. Organic is much more expensive, but I assume we're paying for a smaller scale mass production where the animals are treated better.

If we want cheap milk, it's going to be done by a huge faceless corporation.

[nono]

15. Grew up on it

The butter and the buttermilk are the best.

[raysr]

23. I remember the homemade butter

stunk like rotten cheese. Yuk.

[Petrushka]

25. LOL

Makes me wonder what those dairy cows were eating! I mean: Raw milk and/or the butter made from its cream has a pleasant taste and scent unless, of course, the dairy cows were being fed too strong (or cheap) a feed-mix (for instance, something for fattening up steers)--and/or those cows were munching on wild garlic in early Spring or windfall crabapples in late Summer.

In any case, your comments about your (uh) dairy experience(s) made me chuckle. I love raw milk . . . especially from Jersey cows. It's about one-quarter cream, which makes delicious butter (salted or unsalted) and heavenly cream-cheese for that favorite cheesecake recipe! ;)

[BanzaiBonnie]

30. When my brother and I finished churning

the butter, we got a whole stack of saltine crakers, spread them with fresh butter and sat down with our treat. It was ambrosia.

[Dangerously Amused]

16. Nooooo!

The sickest I ever got in my life was the day I drank a glass of raw milk.

Never. Again.

[catchnrelease]

18. Love it

I've been drinking raw milk for 2, maybe even 3 years now. (Have been a milk drinker all my 55 yrs, and think the raw has an actual rich flavor, vs the dishwater you get from commercial brands.) In So Calif. it is sold by either Organic Pastures or Claravale, can be found at either Wild Oats or Whole Foods stores.

When it sits for awhile, the cream does rise to the top, but I just give the jug a shake before I pour it, and it's fine.

I usually buy 1 half gallon at a time, and that will last me a week. If I haven't used it by then, it seems to stay good for 2 weeks. Even if I've kept it too long and it starts to go bad, it just seems to slowly get a stronger taste, not flat out sour all at once. It IS important to keep it cold.

From what I've read, raw milk dairies are held to higher standards than regular commercial dairies, and are inspected more frequently.

Here's a link, I think it ends up at the same place as link posted above. http://www.realmilk.com/

I think Organic Pastures has a website also, but I don't have a link to it at the moment. It might give you more info.

[salvorhardin]

24. realmilk.com is a quack outfit

See my post above.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5390211&mesg_id=5390598

[newyawker99]

40. Hi catchnrelease!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[applegrove]

19. It takes a bit of getting used to but whole milk is delicious. Also very

dangerous. Basically in Canada they shut down a great yogurt factory because they made it the old way (not pasturized according to standards). Was really too bad. Everyone loved that yogurt. But - in the end we hire governments to take care of our safety. If I had kids - i wouldn't do it. God knows what frankinpollutants are in the milk these days - simply from jets flying overhead or whatever else we are doing to our environment. What sort of pesticides do the farmers use on their farms. What sort of pesticides are used on neighbouring farms.

Weird but it is a well known fact that some bug in childhood can lead to disease later in life. Strep throat can cause OCD in certain rare people who don't have the antibody to fight off strep throat for some reason. As well as a host of other diseases.

I love the taste of unpasturized milk. But that is a great risk you are putting your kids at. And i think farm kids grow up with immune systems built like the great wall of china - they are so exposed to dirt and animals. So too is there a greater incidence of some cancers in some farming communities.

IMHO

[spinbaby]

26. I don't think it would hurt you

But I don't think there are any particular benefits, either. Our family used raw milk directly from a farm when I was a child and I can't say that I was crazy about it. In the spring, the cows used to get into the wild garlic and then we'd have garlic-flavored milk.

[H2O Man]

27. I think it is fine.

I grew up farming, and worked on farms as a young man. It's a healthier lifestyle. It can take a bit of getting used to the taste.

[DrDebug]

46. Isn't that a great picture

That's what a meadow is supposed to look like. It shouldn't be an endless field of grass. I'm sure that those cows give much healthier milk. The point about milk is that it is very healthy, however you shouldn't mix it with fruit and meat and that's the mistake many people make.

[electricray]

50. What is the reason behind not mixing it?

I am just starting to research food interactions and the like. Oh and yes, that is a great picture.

[DrDebug]

53. Because milk will react to meat and fruit

Just take some milk and put some fruit in it and you'll notice a reaction especially if you use orange juice or some other fruit which is very acid. So it becomes slightly toxic when mixed with certain other fruit. It is the reason for the Jewish kosher laws.

Most western people have become slighty immune to it because of prelonged exposure over many generations (unlike many other races). Milk is very healthy but it is a complete diet, so there is no need to mix it and it can be better used as a small meal. Since it's high in protein it often reacts to other proteins.

Here is a whole story of combinations which can be troublesome, but often if you are used to it, it is less of a problem:
http://www.internethealthlibrary.com/DietandLifestyle/Food_combining.htm

[electricray]

54. Wow what a great resource.

Thanks a lot for that info.

[H2O Man]

52. Thanks. I always liked

that photo. I used to raise a couple beef cattle, and rabbits and fowl. Pigs, too, but just for pets. Raising animals without injecting them, either with needles or with enhanced foods, to make them grow faster, is the way to go. There is a big difference in taste.

[Caretha]

31. Grew up drinking raw milk

Thought it was wonderful....nothing like skimming the cream from the top and eating it on your cereal or strawberries or peaches.

I was 16 when I first drank "store-bought milk" and it almost made me gag.

I haven't had raw milk since I was a teen so I wonder how it would taste to me today.

[Horse with no Name]

32. I grew up on a dairy farm

When our milk hit the milk lines it was 33 degrees and that is what is stayed at until it was picked up.
We drank directly out of the tank and it was delicious.
Our dairy had a pretty high butterfat content (our dairy was chosen by Yoplait to make their yogurt). :)
When you drink fresh milk that is not at it's coldest, you do notice a little variant of flavor and texture, but when it is cold, I didn't notice any difference.
With that being said, you want to make sure you trust the dairy implicitly before buying from them...that they don't add water to their milk (very common practice since milk is purchased on per pound weight), or that they don't use medications in their cattle because it does cross over to the milk supply and that they are fastidiously clean.
Our milk parlor was sparkling clean and was completely disinfected between milkings. You could have performed surgery between milkings.
My dad NEVER shortcutted anything.
I have also had "hand milked" milk...that is not my cup of tea, so to speak. I think the key to drinking it is keeping it at it's coldest.

[madokie]

34. Reminds me, it's time to go to the dairy and get some fresh

Cream to make some butter with. So good.

[HeeBGBz]

35. I don't like the taste of the milk

We had a cow as a kid and my parents would get mad at me for not drinking the milk. Don't know if it would be any different if I tried it today.

I did like churning and eating the butter.

[Cats Against Frist]

36. You can start slow, if you don't want to go "all raw"

I'm kind of wary about giving my son non-pasteurized milk and juices, because even though technology has improved, you just can't be sure what's happened.

We drink pasteurized, non-homogongenized organic milk -- it doesn't have all the nutrients that raw milk does, but I believe that all grass-fed cows will produce at least some of the omega-3s that make drinking "alt" milks so appealing, in the first place. Raw milk, would be wonderful, if you had your own cow, and you could sterilize everything. I would probably drink it, myself -- but, I wouldn't give it to my son.

What I left out: So, if you want the omega-3s, you have to find milk that comes from grass-fed cows. I believe that Organic Valley is the only national brand that you can buy and be sure the cows have seen a little pasture time. I trust neither Horizon (owned by Dean) or Stonyfield, which is also owned by some huge company. We have, thank god, a local dairy, or I buy OV.

[Maru Kitteh]

37. It's all just BREAST MILK from COWS. . . Gross.

Why would you want to drink the body fluids of a cow?

I don't do interspecies body fluid exchange or consumption, thanks.

[ArkDem]

38. I really enjoy my raw milk best when I'm eating my free range

veal!

[Bluerthanblue]

39. Raw milk is the best and

most healthy choice for any dairy user, if IF- you are the one in control of the process, or in close contact with the people who are.
Up until the last few years, we always had our own milk-fresh from our own cows, milked by hand, and sold to a few neighbors. Pasteurization is not necessary if you are scrupulous washing and maintaining proper cleanliness practices. Homogenization is unnecessary- the reasoning behind it is to break the fat globules into tiny particles that are evenly distributed in the milk- If you allow the milk to settle and skim off the cream that rises (to make butter with) there is usually more than enough fat left to give the milk a 'full' body- and should not taste watery at all. Our cows were Jersey- Guernsey high fat, lower production animals- As for the milk 'smelling' like cow- with proper hygiene, there should be no unpleasant or unusually strong 'odor'-
Most important- more important than the concept of raw milk in my experience is that if you are going to use dairy products, be very aware of the growth hormones that are added to almost ALL commercial feed. These hormones are given to increase production- there are also often unnecessary antibacterial agents that are routinely added to offset the risk of disease outbreaks among larger herds- and to pre-emptively avert problems. These chemicals are passed along to YOU the consumer- and tend to collect in fatty tissues. The same goes for chicken, and poultry who are fed highly medicated feed, with growth hormones that encourage 'larger breasts' and quick weight gain.
I am convinced that some of the health concerns faced by americans today- obesity, cancers of the breast and reproductive tracts, as well as some of the 'super-germs' are as a result of our playing with the animals and produce to maximize out-put while not seriously questioning the long term health effects of their use.

Short answer- if you can't grow your own- spend the extra $ for food produced by small farms who pledge NOT to use hormones or excessive medications in the production of your food- ESPECIALLY dairy and meat products. It is worth it in the long run. Also, think about this- Milk prices have NOT risen at the same rate of almost any other product. Milk sold for 1.99 a gal. here in N.E. 20 years ago- it can still be had for 2.50 and sometimes less even today- The farmers costs have not gone down,- and you can bet the middle-men aren't staying stagnant- Farming- especially small scale farming is more valuable than ever before- When you buy locally grown and produced foods, you are supporting your community, and helping the environment.

Big Dairy (look into the 'whole-herd buyout' that happened in the 80's and see how many small farms buckled) is NOT your friend. Unless you believe that 'Walmart' is your friend, and has the best interests of people, and the environment at heart.

I'd advise buying small farm- organic milk- as your best option- Unless you are in close contact with your 'raw-milk' provider.
I firmly believe we will come to recognize how important local, small scale businesses and suppliers are- hopefully before it is too late.

sorry for the rant- it's a very overlooked, and under-rated issue.

[electricray]

43. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate the info.

I had just gotten to the anti-juggernaut activism part of my research and I think that I will be enjoying raw milk for myself. It just seems like the right thing to do now. Plus I live in farm country so I should be able to find someone to sell me a little.

[Bluerthanblue]

44. you are quite

welcome. Our corner of the world has become very sub-urbanized. Life circumstances have made farming (animals, not vegetables) impossible i'm sorry to say.
We do buy organic "small farms" milk, and milk products, because I sincerly believe the issues of growth hormones, and chemical additives put into the food that we eat are indeed poisoning us all slowly and silently.-
Hope you find a happy farm connection- We really appreciated our customers (helping to nurture others with healthy foods was truly satisfing,(in a non$ way) and made what we were doing even more worthwhile)-
glad to be of help, even in a tiny way.-

blu

[Igel]

47. Back in the '80s when I lived in Eugene I drank lots of raw milk

and used raw-milk products. Had trouble finding the milk at the normal grocery stores; there was some small 7/11-style convenience store (not 7/11 ...) that had raw milk from a regional producer for the same price as the pasteurized stuff.

Every day on the way to work as a summer-time groundskeeper I'd pick up a gallon. By the end of the day, it'd be gone. Never noticed it was stringy or foul smelling, and it would keep fine to the end of the workday (even if it was just stored in a hot shed).

I'm not sure I'd use it with kids: they're one of the reasons raw milk was banned in many states, and every couple of years there'd be a call for banning it in Oregon, too. Apparently if sanitation breaks down in the production process some bacteria that are harmful to kids might possibly reach dangerous levels. The bacteria are dangerous to immunologically compromised folk, too, but the primary risk is to kids.

As for the idea of there being more pollutants or whatever in raw milk, they'd be the same ones present in pasteurized milk before pasteurization, and I'm not sure that pasteurization is sufficient to destroy them.

[formercia]

48. when I was younger

we lived in a remote part of Charlevoix in Quebec province. We obtained our milk from an uncle that milked his 3 cows by hand and used an old DeLaval cream separator to remove a portion of the cream which he saved and twice a week delivered the cans to the train station in his old horse drawn cart. It was something right out of the 19th Century.
We never became ill from drinking that milk and I can say for certain that it tasted better than any milk we can buy in the supermarket today.
When the cream separated out, it was at least 15% of the volume, and even when poured off, the milk was richer than 2% milk from the store. The only complaint I ever had was in the Winter, he would supplement the hay feed with rutabagas and it would make the milk taste a little different.
So, my opinion is, if the herd is tuberculin tested and the product is handled properly, I would take raw milk any day over the stuff from the store.

[electricray]

49. Can I just say that DU rocks. I wasn't sure what kind of response I'd get

but you all really came through. Thanks a lot.

[smurfygirl]

55. I just had an image of someone sucking on a cow's....

oh my god..
nevermind.

I'm vegan and don't do dairy. I have eaten some goats cheese and drank some goats milk recently though at an organic farm.
Anything organic is better than that chemical laden shit the dairy industry likes to sell us and then we wonder why we are all dying of cancer...
Go for it, if that's what you want, but I've heard soymilk is the best, and your children will love it!!!!

[electricray]

56. Thanks, but I have had to eliminate soy as an option.

Allergies in the family seem to really act up when we are on soy. I suppose that I can't win. Oh well. Thanks anyway.

[yellowcanine]

57. Raw milk is a bad idea - has zero to do with BIG Dairy. It is the USDA

and the FDA that regulates the requirement for pasteurizing milk. And with good reason. Raw milk can make you real sick and even kill you. Just because someone drank raw milk "back on the farm" does not mean it is safe for you to do it. Farm kids are exposed to the bacteria in raw milk from the time they were born - you haven't been. I grew up on a dairy farm. I drank raw milk until I was about 16. That was almost 40 years ago and I would not think of drinking raw milk now. The research data says it isn't safe - forget about anecdotes. And many of the people saying it is safe are also selling it. Think about it.

[graywarrior]

58. Read Diet for a New America by John Robbins