Does anyone else wonder why the freakin' idiots didn't PLANT WMDs?

[AzDar]

That's what I expected..all through the run-up to the election last year, I was waiting for Bush to pull that out at the 'designated' time. Behind in the polls? Guess what, folks? We've FOUND those pesky WMDs, so our illegal invasion of a sovereign Nation has been justified. But it just never happened.
Instead of being revealed for the lying,war-mongering,murdering chickenhawks that they are, Bushie would be a hero now, had say, a nuclear or biological weapon actually been found.
Were they too busy to plant? Just couldn't get 'er done? Anyone else ponder this????

[TallahasseeGrannie]

1. I honestly think

they thought they would find some.

Flame away.

[izzie]

22. So did I. They had no proof but were just so sure they were there.

I thought well they are so sure maybe they will find them.I still did not think we should go to war, with or with out them.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

25. I agree. After all, why then?

But I think they believed Saddam's saber rattling delusions.

[DavidBowman]

31. I tend to think this as well

...but that doesn't jibe with the notion that the administration lied us into war. Bumbled is more like it, but who knows?

[TheDebbieDee]

38. See reply #2 below ......

The * admin was using Brewster-Jennings.....
(Brewster-Jennings was the CIA's weapons consulting firm/front company) to procure WMDs that was then going to be planted in Iraq so the US military could find the WMDs and say, "Lookie here! We got us some WMDs!"

For whatever reason, the CIA refused to provide the WMDs for *ushco to plant in Iraq, so the * admin got even by exposing Brewster-Jennings and valerie Plame in an effort to intimidate the other CIA spooks from ratting out the * admin.

I don't remember where I first read this theory, but I think it makes a lot of sense. For one thing, it explains why * lied to justify the Iraqi invasion.....because he thought the CIA would give him the weapons to plant in Iraq!

[Mme. Defarge]

46. Wish we could find a source for this.

An intriquing angle.

[elehhhhna]

72. oooh good one but can't Carlyle juts drop ship WMDs anywhere overnight?

[SharonRB]

86. I read this the other day somewhere on DU

I don't know if the original source was cited.

On edit: Here's the link to the thread. There is a link cited.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=5404231

[evermind]

93. This was from Wayne Madsen, wasn't it? (n/t)

[PerpetualWinter]

73. Saddam may have believed those delusions as well...

I mean if I were Saddam's scientists I could see myself lying to him about something like this in order to make him happy. Even if we didn't have the technology.

[wtmusic]

29. They thought they would find them

but it was never an honest rationale for going to war.

[Skittles]

36. nope

but they thought it would be a cakewalk and the ends would justify the means

[Mme. Defarge]

45. Deleted message

[EstimatedProphet]

48. I disagree

We had a good discussion, the Foreign Minister and I and the President and I, had a good discussion about the nature of the sanctions -- the fact that the sanctions exist -- not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein's ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq...
Colin Powell, 24 February 2001

But in terms of Saddam Hussein being there, let's remember that his country is divided, in effect. He does not control the northern part of his country. We are able to keep arms from him. His military forces have not been rebuilt.
Condoleeza Rice, 29 July 2001

[Broken_Hero]

97. Yeah...

from the mouth of Bush adivisors...camera's and video tape, its a wonderful thing...

[SammyWinstonJack]

52. I honestly think that they thought we would think that they would find

some. :shrug:

[radwriter0555]

54. Nah, they'd have had to kill too many people needed to make it happen...

There would have been too many people who knew about it, in order to get away with it.

Plus, all munitions are traceable.

[JesterCS]

62. You do know

that if you beleive enough in your own dilusions.. they become reality.. in your own mind =p

[leesa]

68. No. They didn't. There was no preparation to meet WMD force.

They knew exactly what was there.

[Marr]

92. There was no preparation for the occupation, either. Or Katrina.

Or a hundred other obvious looming catastrophes that ended up claiming lives. Just because they failed to prepare for something doesn't mean they had any special knowledge. Don't get me wrong- I don't think for a second that the Administration expected Iraq to launch a nuke or even to have any appreciable amount of chemical weapons available for use.

They probably expected to find *enough* evidence to justify their invasion through the American media. SOMETHING. All it would've taken is a few leftover stockpiles. But there was nothing at all.

They're just incompetent.

[Marie26]

102. Me too

They'd deluded themselves into thinking that Iraq had WMD, hyped up the threat, then searched every inch of the country only to come up empty. By that time it was too late to try to plant anything. If you think of it, how would they know Iraq didn't have any WMD left? Apparantly the US had almost no human sources in Iraq - they were relying on satellite photos & Chalabi dissidents. Iraq had WMD in the past, & there was no way to be certain that all had been destroyed. Yes, the US ignored the inspectors, Iraq's own reports, etc. Yes, the evidence that existed was incredibly shaky, but I bet they didn't have any evidence saying "No WMD's left in Iraq." It's hard to prove a negative. So it's hard to say it was a flat-out lie about whether WMD's existed; I think the lie was about the hyped "imminent danger" and saying WMDs were the real reason for war, when it was really just an excuse to get American support.

[Patchuli]

2. From what I heard on the Stephanie Miller show

from a caller was that Brewster Jennings, Valerie Plame's front company foiled an attempt to plant WMDs in Iraq by guess who and that's why they and she were outed! Makes sense, doesn't it? They try to destroy anyone who stands in the way of their wrongdoing!

[Rick Myers]

23. Correct

Story goes they shipped VX shells via Turkey but Plame's unit intercepted them. More reasons for them to 'out' her. They knew they had to get 'fresh' material in there, since most binary chem agents have a shelf life of less than 5 years.

[tinrobot]

50. That actually sounds about right...

It would certainly give a much stronger motive for outing her.

[nolabels]

57. Besides if it was just a few (two,three or so) they could of snuff em out

We have all seen many accounts of them doing just that. Somebody speculated quite few years ago a war between the spooks was going on. Doesn't the preponderance of things that have happened or are happening seem to support that?

[upi402]

60. Ah HAH! Bingo!

I missed that segment on Stephanie's show.
Thanks!
TV News is all over this I'm just sure.
:sarcasm:

[ThomWV]

3. I Really Expected It

But I honestly thing that there were far to many people looking for it for them to get away with planting stuff.

[mrcheerful]

4. They tried

and got caught. Of course that never made the nightly news.

[Nabia2004]

10. Yes, according to the articles I read... and failed - nt

[evlbstrd]

5. They'd already sold them off?

That's one reason they had to out Valerie Plame.

[ClassWarrior]

6. Speculation has it, they blew V. Plame's cover because she thwarted...

...their attempts to smuggle them in - twice.

I'm gonna see TakeBackTheMedia.com's movie "Rove's War." It's supposed to explore this very question.

NGU.

[Truebrit71sbruv]

7. They did...

... and then promptly forgot where the fuck they left them...

[Cha]

8. No, I don't wonder because

there were articles on DU that said that they had tried to plant them and they were hit by friendly fire..I know this sounds confusing.

Some DUer ask this very question about a month ago and we got on and reported what we remembered from that time..sorry I don't have any links at this late date.

[Postman]

9. Maybe they tried but Valerie Plame busted the operation.....

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?boardID=70476&discussionID=464925

[lvx35]

55. Wow, now that's really something...

That makes a whole lot of things makes sense....What an angle!

[drdtroit]

11. Here is what happened when they tried:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0413-02.htm :patriot:

[populistdriven]

12. the mission to plant the WMD's fell victim to friendly fire (link)

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_12-8-2003_pg1_9

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/IRA308A.html

http://www.trinicenter.com/oops/ciadod.html

[drdtroit]

14. Thanks for the additional links. n/t

[jarnocan]

19. some good info

thanks, There is just so much stuff, sometimes when the Mainstream Media considers reporting the truth, I really think they don't know how to, because it is so complex and involved. They likely worry that it will just blow up in their face, by a curt and simplistic dismissal by the BU**SH**INc. that many people will find easier to understand, and then their ratings will be suffer.

[johnaries]

107. All those links refer to the same story on the same website,

Al Martin Raw.com (http://www.almartinraw.com) which apparently doesn't exist anymore (hmmm, wonder why).

I've been trying to find another source, but haven't had much luck. I think this would be a good candidate for the Research Forum.

edit: I was able to get to the Al Martin website this time, so I guess it does still exist.

[pauldp]

13. Yes. I've wondered the same thing.

They certainly had no trouble planting intelligence reports. Maybe too risky? Maybe someone found out they were going to do it and has some dirt on the administration that they are holding out on?
:shrug:

Or maybe they are truly honest dilligent public servants.
:spray:

[democracyindanger]

15. Don't fall for the tinfoil.

All these links to Iranian news agencies and the like--ignore. They couldn't plant WMD because it would've been incredibly hard to do, and relatively easy to discover the origin of the nuclear, biological or chemical components.

[snippy]

20. I agree. Especially about the ease of discovering the origin. n/t

[rucky]

63. see Anthrax debacle of 2001. n/t

[Nabia2004]

37. another link - an observation

October Surprise?
Bush May Be Planting WMDs in Iraq
by Tamara Baker

April 20, 2004 -- SAINT PAUL, MINNESOTA (apj.us) -- Remember how Bush, in his press conference a week ago today, seemed to hint, smiling smugly as he did so, that WMDs would soon be found in Iraq?

-snip-

But it's interesting that these stories have been swirling around for some time.

(And the really paranoid part of me is wondering if the wackier ones are being promoted and discredited in the hopes that the discrediting will 'discredit' the true stories, if any.)

Anyway: As I've said, all of these pieces, by themselves, mean nothing. But taken together, they make me wonder if somebody shouldn't ask why Bush is so sure that WMDs will be found, when they haven't been found to date.

One thing we can be sure about: The more these stories get spread in America, the less likely it will be that BushCo will try this. So, as Madame Noonan might say, speculate away!

http://www.americanpolitics.com/20040420Baker.html

[Peace Patriot]

66. What makes you think that any objective scientist would have been...

...permitted anywhere near their planned "find" of WMDs in Iraq? Kind of like the Red Cross and the secret prisons, don't you think? If you aren't permitted near it, then you can't verify it or debunk it.

They did the same thing with the "crude" Niger forgeries--kept the actual documents out of any objective hands for as long as possible.

Finally, why do you think the notorious Iran-Contra arms dealer, Ghorbanifar, was present at the Rome meeting, where all this was planned? They likely needed expertise in WMDs and illicit movement of WMDs. Why would finding plausible WMD materials or components be so difficult--for a man like that, who has dealt in illicit weapons for his whole career?

There are many, many mysteries of Traitorgate that suddenly get solved, once you factor in a Bushite plot to plant WMDs in Iraq. Traitorgate begins to make sense, as the coverup of this highly deceitful plan and its foiling by unknown parties (possibly by Brewster-Jennings agents, assets or contacts, by Plame herself, by David Kelly, or by others who were tipped off by one of these). For instance, such a plot helps explain the panic that seemed to hit the Bushites on or about July 7, when they began calling at least SIX reporters (six journalist witnesses to treason!) looking for a news patsy to out Plame immediately--and putting many top Bushites at risk of treason charges. Why the rush? Why the sloppiness of their cover stories? Why put so many top people at risk? Just to "punish" an ex-diplomat for his public dissent? Doesn't make sense.

There are many ways they could have punished Wilson, and many ways they could have outed Plame--all with less risk to themselves. Instead, they chose a path of MAXIMUM risk, in the method, and in the substance (additionally outing Brewster-Jennings, an act that was wholly unnecessary for the "punishment" of Wilson, but which greatly increased their risk of treason charges). It speaks of haste and panic.

The David Kelly tragedy was running parallel to these events. He began whistleblowing anonymously to the BBC in the last week of May 2003 , re: the exaggerated ("sexed up") pre-war intel. He was then mysteriously outed to his bosses and interrogated at a safe house in mid- to late June. And on July 7, Tony Blair was informed that Kelly "could say some uncomfortable things" (COULD say, not HAD said). What did Kelly know that he hadn't yet said?

If what he knew about was a plot to plant WMDs in Iraq (something he was in a good position to discover), this would have been a more likely trigger of such panic among the Bushites, than the mere publication of a dissenting article (by Wilson)--the presumption being that Plame also knew about, and/or had helped foil, their deceitful plot. Plame was outed on July 14 (by Novak). Kelly was found dead, under highly suspicious circumstances, four days later, on July 18. His office and computers were searched. Four days after that, on July 22, Plame's entire WMD counter-proliferation project, Brewster-Jennings, was outed (also by Novak), completely disabling the project and putting all covert agents and contacts at great risk of getting killed.

Interestingly, the connective tissue is Judith Miller--an old colleague of Kelly's (she had used him as a major quoted source in her book "Germs")--and a frequent correspondent, to whom Kelly sent his last email, on the day he died, in which he was concerned about the "many dark actors playing games." (--an email later released by his family, not be Miller).

The same Judith Miller who was meeting covertly with Scooter Libby, in a plot to out and disable Plame and her network, during the exact same period. Parallel events, parallel themes, near exact same dates. And the same Judith Miller who was running around Iraq with the U.S. troops "hunting" WMDs, on a special "embed" contract signed by none other than Donald Rumsfeld. Why set her up in Iraq like that, in a high profile "hunt"--and set up public expectations--for a "find" of WMDs that the Bush cabal almost certainly knew were not there? Were they just sitting around HOPING she would find some?

Not bloody likely.

I do have a coherent theory of all this--from the creation of the "crude" Niger forgeries, to their planned fulfillment in a phony "find" of nuke material in Iraq (with Miller getting her big, phony, career-enhancing "scoop"). I won't go into it all here. I just wanted to point out that a Bushite plot to plant WMDs in Iraq makes a lot of sense, and solves many mysteries. It may not be the truth (or the whole truth) of the matter, but it's a good working hypothesis. It holds up well, as more facts have become known. It is not easily debunked (and has not been debunked).

There were two news reports--one out of Pakistan, one out of Iran--of a foiled Bushite plot to plant WMDs in Iraq, in March '03. I don't know why the Islamic press should have any less credibility on a matter like this than the New York Times (that lying rag!). And those upthread who dismiss these reports because they are from Islamic news sources really need to ask themselves this question. Was the NYT any more reliable than the Tehran Times on Iraq matters?

One was the "friendly fire" report--that a botched CIA plot to plant WMDs met with "friendly fire" and was foiled. (This might have been a confused report, which got 'white hat' CIA and Bushite operatives mixed up.) The report was from a DoD whistleblower, named Nelda Rogers, who hasn't been heard from since. The other was from a member of the Iraq Governing Council in Basra, who saw covert weapons being unloaded with false Red Cross labels on them. It might have been one of these that piqued David Kelly's interest (he had friends in Iraq). It's odd, regarding the Turkey report--which I hadn't heard of before: I had thought, initially, in reviewing the Rogers and the Basra reports, that Turkey would be a more likely border for the Bushites to try to get an illicit shipment across (help from the Kurds, etc.). But there might have been several tries to get WMDs into Iraq--and several foilings of those efforts.

Bottom line: Plame's was a counter-proliferation enterprise, and she and her network would have stood as a major obstacle to illicit weapons movement. Kelly would also have been a serious obstacle--a highly reputed scientist and tough guy inspector, who believed in his work of non-proliferation.

Kelly initially supported the war; he wanted Saddam ousted. But something turned him around about the war, after the invasion--turned him into a whistleblower. His discovery of a deceitful plot to plant such weapons for political gain would be the kind of thing that could have done it, in my estimation of him.

It is simply not credible to me that the Bushites in any way expected a real find of WMDs in Iraq. They put too much effort into "stovepiping" intelligence, getting around the honest CIA analysts and experts, and sneering at the objective UN inspectors who were on the scene; and they showed too much contempt for countries like Germany, France, and Russia, who were completely unconvinced that Saddam posed any kind of threat. They deliberately ignored information to the contrary from credible sources; they planted false information (in the NYT and elsewhere); they created a whole ad hoc group, the Office of Special Plans, specifically to "cherrypick" intelligence to their liking; they PAID a crook like Chalabi to make things up; and they probably manufactured evidence (the Niger forgeries).

They did everything they could to suppress the truth that Saddam was no threat. They weren't looking for the truth. They were promoting a damned lie, day in, day out--with the full PR resources of the Rove machine, the rightwing "think tanks" and the war profiteering corporate news monopolies. And it is a small step, for these criminals, from congenital lying, to manufacturing and planting evidence.

I don't think it's any stretch at all to presume that they intended to plant WMDs in Iraq, to be "found" by Judith Miller. It's almost a no-brainer. They had the entire US military machine in Iraq, and billions and billions and billions of unaccountable dollars to buy whatever expertise and covert capabilities they needed, and to procure whatever materials they needed, no matter how esoteric those materials needed to be. And they certainly had a number of private corporate entities in Iraq who would do their bidding, no questions asked.

Think about this. The Gulf of Tonkin incident that started the Vietnam war wasn't exposed until years afterwards. I can hear some naysayer saying, then, "It's not possible that it was a phony, trumped up incident. Too many people would be involved. Somebody would rat on them." But it WAS phony and it WAS covered up--until much too late. Governments--especially THIS Bushite government--wrap themselves in protective secrecy during war. The Bushites would have done exactly that, had they succeeded in planting the WMDs (had no one foiled them directly). They would have whipped out some mysterious-looking powdery substance, or some plausible-looking components--quickly, for the cameras. And that's the last we would have seen of it. They might even have produced a "report" by supposed scientists--full of numbers and tables and descriptions that no one could refute, because no objective scientist, no scientist who wasn't paid off, would get near the stuff.

Look at the 9/11 engineering report! Look at the 9/11 Commission report! Look at their budget reports! Look at their EPA reports! Look at any report they've ever written, or any evidence they've ever given. They are liars. And who, among the news monopolies, would have called their bluff on WMD evidence in summer 2003? Who? They swallowed Powell's 100% pack of lies to the UN, hook, line and sinker, with no investigation, in Feb. '03--although there was extensive outside evidence, and experts, saying it was bunk.

I think it is just naivete to say they couldn't do it--plant WMDs in Iraq--and get away with it, in the same way they've gotten away with everything else, by lying, by the use of secrecy and by "smoke and mirrors" deception, and by relentless repetition of propagandistic "talking points." And then there's Ghorbanifar at the Rome meeting--possibly having the expertise and the sources to produce false evidence that could have held up under objective scrutiny. There are many types of weapons, weapons components and materials they could have used for their phony plant, and numerous illicit networks and dealers to obtain them from, with money being no object. Finally, they have no compunction about using torture, and, in my opinion, none about murder either. Witnesses could have been killed; tracks covered up--in the very deliberate chaos they created in Iraq during the invasion, and to this day.

[quiet.american]

78. ! - I can't believe no one else responded to your excellent post

There's enough in there to chew on for a few days, to say the least.

[glitch]

80. Game Set Match.

All the way through the point of creating deliberate chaos. Amazingly, I was listening to a supposedly educated talk show yesterday (Ian Masters on KPFK) where both host and guest could not come up with a reason why the chaos in Iraq couldn't have been intentional.

They just couldn't come up with a single reason, not even that looting is much more possible under chaotic conditions. :eyes:

[renate]

83. this deserves its own thread

Very impressive!
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[democracyindanger]

95. Because the NYT is fishwrap doesn't

bestow legitimacy on Pakistani or Iranian news agencies. Those two countries aren't exactly beacons of free expression. You assume I trust them less than the Times, when in fact I trust them about the same. Which is to say: little.

Using the Red Cross and secret prisons as proof that planted WMDs would never be examined by experts is nonsense on many levels, but basically because they want to keep the prisons secret--they'd want to crow over and over about 'found' WMDs. International monitors would have to be involved.

But the greatest weakness of your theory is that it relies on one overriding belief: That the Chimpministration is smart enough to do it. The same idiots who have the Boy President at, what, 37% now? The same ones who aren't even good at covering their tracks in leaking to reporters.

The only naivete going on here is the belief that the WH is competent enough to pull off such a thing.

[DearAbby]

104. Jaysus H. Keeerist

:wow: What a clear and logical post....just :wow:

I am really scared for my country.

[Marr]

84. Agreed. I remember reading an article in the Post where an anonymous

WH official was asked directly why they simply didn't plant WMD after the fact. He/she said that the idea had in fact been casually bandied about. However, no one took the idea seriously, as such an attempt would likely be exposed and the price would be enormous.

So it wasn't a matter of principle- only practical self-interest.

I wish I had a copy of that article now. I believe it was in the Washington Post about a year/year and a half ago.

[Marie26]

103. When have these guys ever been good at planning ahead?

They couldn't make a plan for the Iraq invasion, or the Katrina response, but they could make a detailed secret plan to ship WMDs into Iraq? These would have to be WMD that couldn't be traced to the US, obtained from a Middle East country, w/o anyone noticing? No way. I think they're evil enough, I just don't think they're competant enough!

[smurfygirl]

16. recommending, since this question needs to be put out there

so everyone can see why the plame investigation is crucial.

[Poll_Blind]

17. I think they really did try but, like everything else, screwed it up! n/t

PB

[Cleita]

24. I think so too.n/t

[kevinbgoode]

18. Because they would have been labeled:

Made in the U.S.A.

[in_cog_ni_to]

21. From what I understand from reading Scott Ritter and Will Pitt's book,

Chemical agents have a "footprint" and can be traced back to the lab that made them.

Also, I think they TRIED and Plame's anti-proliferation group confiscated them. At least that's what I read on DU. ;) IMCPO, they didn't care they could be traced OR they (VX nerve agent) were made at a Kuwait lab and we would have just blamed Kuwait or said the terrorists stole the chemicals from Kuwait. I do believe it was VX nerve agent.

[NNN0LHI]

26. High resolution spy satellites were watching and might have caught us

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8080407/

U.N.: Weapons equipment missing in Iraq

Experts say 109 sites have had material removed since invasion

UNITED NATIONS - U.N. satellite imagery experts have determined that material that could be used to make biological or chemical weapons and banned long-range missiles has been removed from 109 sites in Iraq, U.N. weapons inspectors said in a report obtained Thursday.

U.N. inspectors have been blocked from returning to Iraq since the U.S.-led war in 2003 so they have been using satellite photos to see what happened to the sites that were subject to U.N. monitoring because their equipment had both civilian and military uses.

In the report to the U.N. Security Council, acting chief weapons inspector Demetrius Perricos said he’s reached no conclusions about who removed the items or where they went. He said it could have been moved elsewhere in Iraq, sold as scrap, melted down or purchased.

[Silverhair]

27. Because they are easy to chemically trace.

Even with the same recipe, a chemical weapon produced by one manufacturer will be very slightly different from those of a different maker. Same with nukes and bioweapons. They all have "fingerprints".

Other explanations are just tinfoil hat garbage.

[KarenS]

28. yep,,,,,

1. I thought there were WMD's to find (but that did not justify the War to me)
2. I was shocked that they didn't plant them.

[Innoma]

30. I've always wondered about that...

I have to admit, I was expecting to hear about a WMD find and I also fully expected that if they were found they would be a plant.

Since none were actually found, I'm revising my estimate - where I had previously believed this administration was evil and willing to do whatever it took to justify their claims, my fallback position is that they are evil and incompetent - incompetent because they actually believed their own self-invented intel.

The gotta have 'em, right? Just get in there and find 'em and all this noise about questionable intel won't add up to a hill of beans because we'll have the ends that justify our means!

I'll bet they were dumbfounded by not discovering anything, had no contingency plans just in case, and then wondered at the pickle they found themselves in.

I say that's incompetent.

[MasonJar]

32. Wasn't there the rumor that they had tried to plant some, but some-

thing went wrong. Allegedly the men who were to do the planting all died or disappeared (probably Mafia style.) Anyone else heard that?

[Greyhound]

49. See this thread;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5404231&mesg_id=5404231

[emdee]

33. I think, just as in many other cases....

they felt 'above the law.' They are masters of cover-ups and propaganda and I think that they felt safe within their base, WMD or not, and they felt that their base was the majority and therefore it didn't matter if they did or didn't find them.
Just my 2 cents,
emdee

[BJW]

34. Wasn't Necessary and Would Have Been Counter

to the REAL strategy. The REAL strategy was to get public support behind an invasion AND keep the troops there indefinitely.

If they had found these early on, or at any time before insurgency began in earnest, there would have been public upswelling for immediate pull out because the fake "goal" and rationale would have been reached.

Encourage you to REALLY read up on and understand PNAC and neo-con beliefs. They WANT A PERMANENT U.S. MILITARY PRESENCE in the Middle East and THEY WANT U.S. CONTROL OVER THE OIL.

The WMDs and all that mix/match insurgent=terrorist=Al Quaida garbage about fighting the terrorists over there so we don't have to fight 'em here--it's always been window dressing for the REAL plan.

[Exiled in America]

35. I believe they tried and failed - its hard to do it secretly (my theory)

[Metta]

39. I think they were planning to have Judith Miller cover their plant story.

That's one reason they're so pissed at Joe Wilson for revealing that part of it to be a hoax.

[nickyt]

40. Man, what a block-buster movie this would be. Intrigue, espionage,

double-crosses, countries hanging in the balance...Denzel, Damon, who would play Plame?
too bad it's real life.
yes, I've wondered. Will we ever know the entire truth...

[Cha]

41. Here's a link to

what some of us were talking about when we said the maddogs tried and failed..Talk about full tilt boogie Irony.

"Subject: More on Plame's role in preventing WMD plants

Just to add a little detail to my claim that Plame was outed because she had prevented
the BFEE from planting WMD, here's one place I saw an example by Wayne Madsen:

"According to U.S. intelligence sources, the White House exposure of Plame and Brewster Jennings was intended to
retaliate against the CIA's work in limiting the proliferation of WMDs. The CIA Counter-Proliferation Division prevented
the shipment of binary VX nerve gas from Turkey into Iraq in November 2002. The Brewster Jennings network in Turkey
was able to intercept this shipment which was intended to be hidden in Iraq and later used as evidence that Saddam was
in possession of WMDs. U.S. intelligence sources revealed that this was a major reason Bush targeted Plame and her network."

Attributions:
http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/006051.php
http://waynemadsenreport.com/

http://www.bartcop.com/

[pitohui]

42. thought they got caught

there were some reports of weapons attempted to be smuggled into iraq, it made the usa and bfee look bad tho, so the media kept it on page 32

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. I have wondered this too

I really think they got caught with their pants down on this one. Either they honestly believed they would find WMDs or they thought they could fool the American public and claim they did find them.

What they didn't count on was the foreign press. I believe that is what cooked them on this WMD issue.

[RedOnce]

44. They may still be planting them...in Syria!

[dennis00]

47. Leno

Jay Leno said we know there are WMDs in Iraq because we have the receipts.:rofl:

[leftofthedial]

51. they tried

Brewster Jennings (Plame's operation) stopped them.

[kster]

53. Yep, they were busted trying to bring the WMD in to Iraq

that is my thought, and probably why they outed Plame, because they got BUSTED. Plame deflects away from the actual BUSTED story.

My TWO cents.

[Lasher]

59. OK, if they tried to plant WMDs and got busted...

then why hasn't Wilson said anything about it? And wouldn't there be an article or two out there, citing 'senior intelligence agency sources' that reveal this motive for destroying the Brewster Jennings operation?

[jsamuel]

61. uh, well, if you think about it

The only person who would know this would be Valorie Wilson. Joe Wilson would know nothing about it. Valorie has no right to tell Joe about her classified work. That information would be Top Secret. No one would be able to get access to it other than those who contributed to it. Those who do know, probably know that if they release that info (if it exists) would get CIA'ed just as much as anyone else giving out info like that to the press.

In other words, no one would want to leak it.

[leftofthedial]

82. any number of reasons

a. the Brewster Jennings field operatives were on to them, but the investigation had not progressed far enough to "prove" anything

b. those "in the know" have some sort of deal with the BFEE not to tell

c. the existing treason is enough for now and the WMD smuggling is a "hole card" to guarantee their personal safety

d. those who know believe it would profoundly damage the American republic to expose the reality that the country has been seized by a gang of criminals

e. there are so many vermin scurrying around in the BFEE's new world order of laissez faire corruption that no one is quite sure who is who

f. Brewster Jennings stopped them prophylactically just by being there. The BFEE outing of Plame was intended to pave the way for introduction of WMDs, but the storm stirred up by Wilson cast far too much attention on the issue.

g. a version of "f" in which Wilson or the CIA or whoever knows has told them that if bogus WMDs are found, they will expose them.

[Marr]

88. I've watched that story slowly go from tinfoil speculation to "truth"

over the last year and a half. Every new iteration accepts the previous speculation as fact and then speculates from that new perch. Over and over.

[BJW]

91. Excellent summation

[BigBearJohn]

56. I read that is why Plame was outed; she discovered such a plan

[Hypatia82]

58. Would have been a waste of time...

it's people not what's found that matters. With all the oil and seawater that were on hand chemical weapons could be produced in staggering quantities in no time flat. Just get what you need from the oil and the sea. Biological and nuclear weapons are harder than that, but the people were there to at least try and do it. I remember the former head of the nuclear program saying that the very fact Saddam hired people who could make such weapons was the same as him having the weapons. His word trumps what any alleged expert on the topic regardless of their side or opinion on the issue.

[autorank]

64. They now know that they're too stupid to do anything right; and they

know that getting caught at that would land them in a re-opened Jonestown. Now that's a nice thought, New Jonestown for Neocons.

A gated community no doubt;)

[autorank]

65. They now know that they're too stupid to do anything right; and they

know that getting caught at that would land them in a re-opened Jonestown. Now that's a nice thought, New Jonestown for Neocons.

A gated community no doubt;)

[Paradise]

67. when it comes to planting wmd's,

it's easier said than done...

[Skidmore]

69. Perhaps that's why Valerie Plame was outed. They were

trying to do just that and she caught them.

[eridani]

70. Scott Ritter sez--

--that it is too easy to identify the origin of bio and chem weapons. For that reason, he didn't thing that a plant was likely.

I think that what they were counting on was an easy occupation, which would have resulted in ongoing military triumphalism sort of like when Baghdad first fell. Given that the average American has the historical memory capacity of a mayfly, that probably would have worked. No one could have predicted the extent of actual resistance. Obviously occupation would have been hated, but that doesn't necessarily lead to IEDs. I mean, lots of people here hate Bush, but we haven't exactly gone that route.

[ProfessorGAC]

71. The Russians & Chinese Were Watching

I think it's that simple. Those two countries opposed the war long before we even went over there. They weren't going to let anybody cheat the system and make them look bad.

They focused spy satellites on that country as soon as the U.S. started mobilizing.

BTW: There isn't any direct proof. Just Occam's Razor and some of the things said by spokesmen for both countries.

The Professor

[NNN0LHI]

74. There is direct proof they were watching. They said they were watching us

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8080407 /

U.N.: Weapons equipment missing in Iraq

Experts say 109 sites have had material removed since invasion

UNITED NATIONS - U.N. satellite imagery experts have determined that material that could be used to make biological or chemical weapons and banned long-range missiles has been removed from 109 sites in Iraq, U.N. weapons inspectors said in a report obtained Thursday.

U.N. inspectors have been blocked from returning to Iraq since the U.S.-led war in 2003 so they have been using satellite photos to see what happened to the sites that were subject to U.N. monitoring because their equipment had both civilian and military uses.

[ProfessorGAC]

77. Thanks Don

I'm glad to know my assumptions were also factual. 'Preciate it!
The Professor

[dogday]

87. That's what I am thinking

Countries with the ability to watch our every move over there.

[freestyle]

75. Because someone would have found the Made in USA label.

Unless we had a stockpile of Iraqi weapons, there was nothing credible to plant. Someone would have discovered the fraud fairly quickly.

[zanne]

76. I've often wondered why the MSM never mentioned....

that Saddam wasn't USING his "weapons of mass destruction". Wasn't it apparent immediately after we attacked that they weren't really there? Why did it take so long for anyone to question their existence?

[OregonBlue]

79. My guess, there are honest people in the CIA and the Military

Intelligence who would not play along.

[Dunvegan]

81. TWO WORDS (on why the Administration did not plant WMDs to find in Iraq)..

1. BREWSTER

2. JENNINGS

If the "to be planted" weapons did originate from Kuwait it explains a lot of tin-foil away...even the "fingerprinting" angle.

Saddam had over-run Kuwait prior to Gulf War I.

Bush I liberated Kuwait.

Kuwait owes the US.

Kuwaiti weapons (as long as they had a shelf-life consisitant with the Iraq retreat from Kuwait) would have held up just enough as plausable.

I remember during Watergate when so very many people just couldn't (for years) believe that Nixon's minions would have been involved in anything as petty as breaking into a DNC office at the Watergate.

But they did.

[berni_mccoy]

85. Because They Never Thought They Would Need To Find Them

The knew ALL of WHAT HAS HAPPENED WOULD HAPPEN. They KNEW they would GET AWAY WITH IT. The biggest IDIOTS are the REPUBLICAN CONGRESSMEN. They stayed in lockstep with the administration until it's far too late (and now they are powerless to do anything about it). However, they believe they will keep their seats secure, at least in states with GOP admins, due to vote machine control. This is why many aren't as worried about bad polls as some are. The GOP will certainly lose some congressional seats, but I don't think it will be as bad as what most here at DU expect (primarily due to vote control). This is why VOTE REFORM IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE FOR THE SAKE OF OUR DEMOCRACY!

[Norquist Nemesis]

89. I thought they would and saw a report they were moving things

into Iraq. But I wasn't able to verify it otherwise, so I dismissed the report.

I had a brief discussion with my husbands about it...who quickly admonished me for being a Bush-hating, partisan conspiracy theorist on the verge of being insane. *sniff*

But, now learning about Brewster Jennings and the Plame outing, I'm almost inclined to think they tried. Someday, I'll be able to give him a relatively smug look before breaking into tears.

[Dunvegan]

90. As the Chinese and Russians were probably keeping a bird...

...in geosynchronous orbit with eyes peeled, if WMD's were to go in, it had to be a covert ops mission.

You cannot see everything from a spy sattelite.

Actually, Occam's Razor also applies to the entire Plamegate, Kelly, Miller, Amerithrax, et. al. affairs as a WMD covert op blown as well as anything.

[Usrename]

94. 200 nuclear triggers were intercepted on the black market

Yeah, with Karl Rove the king of the dirty tricksters, it was always expected that they would find something.

This one only requires a small amount of connecting the dots.

Why would any legitimate black marketeers want to purchase 200 nuclear triggers all at one time?

Even a robust nuclear program would only need them over a period of years, if not decades.

The only plausible reason is to have a giant Easter Egg Hunt in Iraq. Plant small amounts of them all over the country (it's a BIG place) and wait for the first batch to be found by inspectors. Very Rovian, if you ask me.

Add to this reasoning the light sentences for the offenders when caught, the gag order against Sibel Edmonds, and it seems to be the truth.


Check out post #41 on this thread, and the very informative OP by formerepublican and the timeline posted by peacepatriot..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2029771#2033341

[charmsicle]

96. Bumble from the beginning

Either:
1. They didn't care if they found them or not. It's clear Bush was gunning for Sadaam Hussein (remember, one of the first questions he asked on 9/11 was if Sadaam, not Osama, was involved - despite being handed a memo a month earlier that clearly would point to Bin Laden being the culprit).

2. They really did think they were going to find WMDs. Or Jesus, SOMETHING, anything that would justify this.

What amazes me, is if, just say IF Sadaam DID have WMDs, they gave him plenty of tiime to move them out of the country before we invaded. And then, as much as we're supposedly trying to stop terrorism, we fail to secure the borders. If there wasn't an al qaeda cell in Iraq before, our complete mishandling of the situation ensured that there would be one. "Fight the terrorists there instead of over here", indeed..As the ghots of 100s of thousands of dead iraqis cry, "Gee. THANKS."

[agincourt]

98. Politically they probably didn't think they'd need them.

Iraq would be a compliant vassal state of Haliburton, and the troops would not still be getting attacked over 2 years later.

[No Exit]

99. Some--and not just Wayne Madsen, but a British publication I saw--

say that Brewster Jennings prevented this. Supposedly that CIA operation stopped a shipment of chemical weapons as it moved through Turkey. And supposedly the weapons were on their way into Iraq, to be hidden the same way your mom used to hide your Easter basket so you'd suddenly find it and be all surprised.

"Damn Brewster Jennings idiots! They must not have gotten the memo! Off with their heads!"--Dick Cheney

[No Exit]

100. Hey--related question

In 2003, I used to post on a semi-wingnut site. There were many "Bushbots" on there. I used to ask the republiscums, "If Saddam has all these glorious Weapons of Mash (Bush pronunciation used) Destruction, how come he isn't unleashing them now to turn back the invaders?"

None of them could answer the question. They just piled on the insults instead.

[neverforget]

101. The return address would've said Made in the USA?

:shrug:

[Mudcloth]

105. I think we give this administration too much credit

It doesn't matter if wmd's are:
1. There and found
2. There and not found
3. Not there and not found
4. Not there, planted, then found
We're there and that's all that matters to these @#$%'s.
They got what they wanted. They got their war. Cheney's stock is up. Oil companies win again.
And what does it matter if planted weapons come from Turkey or anywhere else and have a i.d. tag that say's so? So what. They would say Hussein got them from where ever. Remember, they would be "finding" Saddam's wmds. It could have worked. It's hard to think of any other reason for outing Plame that makes as much sense. I think they tried and failed. Hell, they were on a roll. Why not?
That being said I think it's a mistake to assume they care about what happens afterward . It's a mistake to assume they care about republicans not getting re-elected because of Iraq, Katrina fall-out, Fitzgerald, etc. They don't care about pleasing their fundies with a Supreme Court pick. After the second stolen election it's all gravy. The Big Score. They don't tow the republican line, they use it. I ramble.

[anitar1]

106. I fully expected this to happen and I am sure they meant

to plant WMD's, but something stopped it. I kept waiting when they were finding munitions dumps, dreading to hear the big news. But never happened, thank God.