If we "Cut and Ran" or as normal people say withdraw our troops

[Toots]

and in five years (or less) Iraq turns out to be a functioning country friendly to the west did we win or lose the war?

[Toots]

1. For those that will say we won then I ask

What about Vietnam? Granted it took longer than five years but it is a functioning country friendly to the West.....

[bonito]

2. When the war stops every one wins. n/t

[acmejack]

3. You can immediately ID a Faux watcher by their use of the phrase

My father has never used that phrase before today. Duke gave us the opportunity to discuss politics and said it. I didn't even respond with anything mean (Holiday Season and all that, I guess).

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. I'd say it depends on that intervening five years

If it is a bloodbath, then no, we lost.

When we leave if suddenly the happy fairy drops fairy dust and everybody holds hands and gets along and WalMarts open next to every mosque...

well, then "we' won.

[theoldman]

5. If Iraq turns out to be a functioning country

it will be a miracle. It would also be because they did it on their own and in spite of our failure in the war. My question is which war are we talking about? The war against the Iraqi people or the war against the terrorist.

[politicaholic]

8. Welcome to DU TOM!

:hi:

[misternormal]

6. There IS going to be a civil war...

... in Iraq no matter what we do. We need to get our troops out and let them have at it. The leaders of the "Big 3", Shiites, Sunnis and Kurds want us out anyway.

The Administration has definitely cemented the Military in the role of Occupiers by not abiding by the their wishes.

[pat_k]

7. Acknowledging we are the problem and commiting reparations....

Perhaps the PNACons* are scrabbling to cut and run.

Sane people are calling for our representatives to:

1) Acknowledge we are now the problem and must get out of the way.

2) Commit reparations (to be paid when they have achieved certain conditions of stability).

It's time to acknowledge we can't fix what we broke and we need to get out of the way. The Iraqis must look to the international community to help them stabilize and rebuild their country.

We can't just get out of the way. We must make specific commitments for reparations; reparations we will pay when they have established a new nation (or separate states) with some level of respect for human rights.

* PNACons (pee na cons -- you know, the PNAC fascists taking a leak on the American people)