Ware (Time Magazine) on CNN revealed this damning information…

[kpete]

Ware (Time Magazine)was speaking on Anderson Cooper 360 last night and revealed this damning information…

COOPER: We are starting to hear from this White House talk that the Iraqis maybe are doing better than we had previously thought. Their —their security forces, their military is — is maybe more ready than we had thought.
There are a lot people that say, well, look, that’s just politics. They’re just trying to say that to set the timetable for withdrawal. From what you’re seeing, from what you’re hearing from the troops you have been embedded with, do they have confidence in — in the Iraqis they’re training?

WARE: Whoever from the White House is saying that is one of two things. Clearly, they have never been in Iraq. And, clearly, they have never been in a firefight with an Iraqi unit.
Secondly, they’re clearly lying, whether they know it or not. I mean, a very senior U.S. military intelligence officer, one of the most high-ranking in the country, just in the last few days, said to me, these Iraqi forces will never be in a position to be able to crush this insurgency.

On the ground here, no one has no any real illusions about that. I have been in battle with almost every type of Iraqi security force there is, from police commandos, to special forces, to 36 Commando, to the elite counterterrorism force akin to the Delta.

I have been with Kurds and Shia and Sunni. And I’m telling you, if the Iraqi security forces are the exit strategy, then get ready to be here for a long time. And your troops know that. They work with them side by side every day.

Yes, there are advances. Yes, there are gains. But will this military that’s emerging here ever be able to replace the American military in Iraq? No.
http://thinkprogress.org/2005/11/29/national-strategy/#comments

[TomInTib]

1. I saw that and almost fell out of my chair. We don't get that kind

of forthright info from the MSM very often.

[NashVegas]

12. I Couldn't Believe It Was Coming from a Time Editor

Then again, he was a Brit. I figured that explained it.

[kenny blankenship]

2. Uh Oh! He's using the THE L WORD !!!

"Secondly, they’re clearly lying, whether they know it or not."

[unblock]

4. "lying, whether they know it or not" is very peculiar

the main reason "lying" is taboo in politics is because "lying" implies the intent to deceive. politicians usually stick closer to things like "telling falsehoods" because that doesn't imply that the speaker knew the statement to be false.

is it even possible to "lie" and not know it?


oh, the other reason politicians shun the l-word is that ALL politicians lie, at least to some extent. it's a necessary survival skill in that business.

[kenny blankenship]

8. You can make something up without knowing for certain that it is contrary

to fact and then present it as fact. That is without knowing the contrary evidence which would disprove what you assert. But the intent is to mislead, so what you presented as fact was functionally the same as any lie which you actually knew (from disproving information) to be false.

What the reporter seems to be saying is, no one with a cursory grasp of the reality on the ground in Iraq could put forward such optimistic estimates as the whitehouse has done, ergo they're making deliberately false statements--lying bullshit--whether they know all about the disproving contrary evidence when they make these statements or whether they don't know it because they refuse to hear any of it and tell their subordinates to never put such information on their desks.
Bullshitting is lying. Making statements that you have no basis for (and making them as though you did have a factual basis for them) is lying. It's not like lying, it is lying. Misrepresenting your own wishes as facts, is lying-- whether you know how far from the truth you really are, or not.

Yes, you can conceivably lie in this way without knowing you are doing it, but not without years of practice in telling yourself that the truth is of no importance. Leaders sometimes do this, and even whole countries at times. But now we are veering away from well lit definitions in logic and rhetoric and stumbling into the area of diagnostic psychology.

[blm]

3. Training Iraqi military needs to be a BIGGER issue of focus.

Kerry discovered last January that heads of other countries OFFERED to train Iraqi troops and Bush has turned them down.


Kerry brings this point up often, including in his withdrawal plan, but the media WON'T GIVE THIS CRUCIAL POINT ANY ATTENTION.

WHY? What the hell is BushInc doing?

I think he's purposely destroying America's military so it can be fully privatized like Blackwater and DynCorp.

[bullimiami]

5. training the iraqi military is pointless.

the iraqis hate us. they hate how weve treated them and how weve plundered their country.
we blew it.
anyone that is seen to be complicit with the us will also never last.

we treated them like animals and pretend to wonder why they are biting back.

there is a possible solution. get rid of bush, get rid of everyone who had anything to do with this, hold them accountable, show the world that we will not tolerate this criminal behavior and start anew in partnership with the iraqis and the world.

wont happen though. we have already lost.

[blm]

7. The training is by OTHER countries, and especially Muslim countries.

I think it's significant that Bush turned them all down even as the WH has been playing lip service to the training of the iraqi troops - as if he has no intention of actually doing it in the numbers necessary for us to leave.

[kpete]

6. Transcript up at CNN link

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0511/28/acd.01.html

and there's more:

COOPER: As we told you before the break, Saddam Hussein's trial was put on hold for one -- one more week, the latest act in a trial plagued by delays and murders.

While many Americans and Iraqis are eagerly anticipating the eventual verdict, if it comes, there remains the question as to whether it will have any effect on the violence in Iraq, on the insurgents.

Earlier, I spoke by phone with "TIME" magazine's Michael Ware, who is in Baghdad and has been on the ground with U.S. troops.

COOPER: In terms of the impact on the insurgency, what do you think that might be?

MICHAEL WARE, BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF, "TIME": Look, Anderson, it is absolutely zero.

I mean, this is the thing about the whole trial. The trial is essentially circus. It is a three-ring circus. It is theater. I mean, this is for Western consumption. For the Iraqis, it means nothing. For the Iraqi Shia, for the Kurds, for anyone who had been touched by Saddam's regime, there's no question of guilt. There's no question of what should happen and what will happen.

[bonito]

9. Yep ,more B.S. mental Valium. n/t

[annabanana]

10. This shocking honesty last night, and tonight

CBS knocking down Rummy's rosy pictures? What's going on ? It almost looks like ol' corpomedia is breaking out in some bizarre truthy rash.

[thefloyd]

15. Funny

CBS and Time reporter were Brits. USA will start importing news as well

[niallmac]

11. So how in the hell is the WH going to get out of Iraq in 2006?

Exit by blood bath? I could give a crap about get out now. I am worried about our troops a la Tet offensive. Get out HOW?

[Zookeeper]

14. Yes, how do we do this gradual troop withdrawal?

If we remove X-number of troops, what happens to the troops who are left behind? What happens when we get down to the last batch of troops? If anyone in BushCo actually had sons or daughters in Iraq, would they want them to be in the last group to leave?

[mtnester]

16. Paper shuffle - that's how n/t

[buddysmellgood]

13. Certainly not as long as we are there to do the dieing.

[Disturbed]

17. The Bush Regime IS Lying.

They lied to get the Amerikan populace behind the illegal Invasion and they have been lying throughout and are still lying.

What is the Insurgency? Why will most of the Insurgency stop the violence IF yes that is a big IF the US/UK were to withdraw all of their troops? Al Z and his group would continue their violence but would the other Insurgent groups continue? I believe they would not.

Iraqi Insurgency

In January 2005 Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said that Iraq's insurgency consited of at least 40,000 hardcore fighters, out of a total of more than 200,000 part-time fighters and volunteers who provide intelligence, logistics and shelter. Shahwani said the resistance enjoyed wide backing in the Sunni provinces of Baghdad, Babel, Salahuddin, Diyala, Nineveh and Tamim. Shahwani said the Baath, with a core fighting strength of more than 20,000, had split into three factions.

The main one, still owing allegiance to jailed dictator Saddam Hussein, is operating out of Syria. It is led by Saddam's half-brother Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan and former aide Mohamed Yunis al-Ahmed, who provide funding to their connections in Mosul, Samarra, Baquba, Kirkuk and Tikrit. Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri is still in Iraq. Two other factions have broken from Saddam, but have yet to mount any attacks. Islamist factions range from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's al-Qaeda affiliate to Ansar al-Sunna and Ansar al-Islam.

A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency. And there is no doubt many of these have had a dramatic effect on perceptions of the insurgency through high-profile video-taped kidnappings and beheadings. However, American officials believe that the greatest obstacles to stability are the native insurgents that predominate in the Sunni triangle. Significantly, many secular Sunni leaders were being surpassed in influence by Sunni militants. This development mirrors the rise of militant Shia cleric and militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr vis-à-vis the more moderate Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_insurge...

Here is the simplicity of the Bush Regime.


"The terrorists want to control the oil. Our way of life will be at risk". George W. Bush (Nov. 2005)

[Aimah]

18. Anyone could see that's a lie.

The US forces are having a hard time dealing with the insurgency. Why would anyone say that the Iraqi troops who are quickly and less trained can manage that mess?

[alcibiades_mystery]

19. Brand new ARVN rifle: never been fired and only dropped once

Oh when will they ever learn....

[young_at_heart]

20. Rumsfeld said today, "They are doing a darn good job"

and they're doing an increasingly better job every day, every week, every month." South African, Lara Logan, on CBS reported tonight that Americans are providing 100% protection for the Airport Road....no Iraqi forces are doing any of this. What happened to the "darn good job", Mr. Rumsfeld?

[CoffeeCat]

21. Just like Brownie was doing a "heckofajob"....all liars!! (nt)