An argument with a friend: Where the hell did the dinosaurs come from?

[CatWoman]

And the cavemen? Cave drawings? How do you explain the evolution of alligators? birds?

If we are to believe the Bible, Adam and Eve weren't hairy bipeds who grunted incessently and beat each other over the head with clubs.

Where's the logic here?

I need to learn to keep my mouth shut. I keep losing friends whenever the topic is religion.

[bryant69]

1. Pittsburgh

Well the Pittsburgh suburbs to be more precise.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[MamaBear]

5. According to another ancient text

It was Detroit. :P

[drdtroit]

36. That's where three huge ones still exist

GM, Ford & Chrysler. :patriot:

[MamaBear]

52. ROFL

:rofl: :hi:

[htuttle]

2. Answers in order:

1. Dinosaur eggs
2. Cave women
3. Cave men and women
4. Natural Selection
5. Natural Selection

[Arugula Latte]

3. Yeah, but really, do you really want friends who believe

the Bible literally? I mean, I think if a person is stupid enough to swallow the six-days of creation and Adam & Eve and no-evolution brainwashing, I can't respect his/her intelligence enough to be friends with him/her.

[TrogL]

62. "In the beginning, God..."

and you're already in trouble.

Where do you set the goalposts for "the beginning"? If God did something to cause "the beginning" he did it before "the beginning" which is either impossible, or else whatever God did, he did it to a subset of everything which again begs the question of what, exactly was created, where, when and by whom.

More here http://www.read-the-bible.org/Beginning.html

[GreenArrow]

4. Dinoasurs were a diabolical ploy of Satan,

a mocking attempt at matching God's creation, with an end of decieving God's true believers.

[MountainLaurel]

8. Yawp.

They exist to test the faith of good Christian folk.

[johnaries]

9. Nah, they were just too big to fit on the Ark. nt

[GreenArrow]

18. well, there are theories in some quarters

that Noah took baby dinosaurs onto the Ark.

[Hobarticus]

10. Yes. Dinosaurs ate the first Christians.

That's where the Romans got the idea.

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. I thought the bible says that only God can create - doesn't that

kinda subvert the "Satan created it" argument?

[GreenArrow]

31. well, see,

Satan tried to create, and look what happened; he ended up with extinct monsters. It was as I said, a diabolical mockery of God's creation, a forgery and a fraud.

For a literary parallel, consider the creation of the Orcs in Lord of the Rings, misbegotten monsters, forged in mockery of both human kind and elemental(natural) spirits, the elves.

Take note also that the dinosaurs resemble nothing other than a Dragon, forever associated with the Devil. The foe always tips his hand.

[northzax]

73. wrong.

Satan cannot create, he can only tempt.

[GreenArrow]

77. you may wish to re-read my post

where I wrote of a "mocking attempt at matching God's creation." You may judge the success of the attempted "creation" by the fleshly non-existence of the monstruous shams that the Foe used to tempt the faith of the elect.

Yes, neighbor, Satan can, and does, mimic creation in order to tempt and decieve God's Children. Even today, the effects of this deception persist, with millions of souls still believing in the folly of "Dinosaurs".

It is not necessary for Satan to have created dinosaurs to have actual existence; it is more to his purpose to simply create the impression that they did exist, and so to cast doubt on the Lord's Holy Word.

[The Sleeper]

6. How Silly !!!

The next thing you godless, destined to burn in the everlasing fires of damnation unbelievers will be telling us is that you can't get Angels to dance on the head of a pin !!!:sarcasm:

[ProfessorGAC]

7. The Dinosaurs Came From Cleveland

Trust me on this.
The Professor

[Sequoia]

44. No, now everybody knows they came from South Dakota where

the Flintstones live.

[ProfessorGAC]

70. Liar! Quit Lying! You Liar!

My mom told me they were from Cleveland. You calling my mom a liar! You're a liar!

Well, maybe some of them were from North Dakota. But not all of them
The Professor

[obreaslan]

11. Of course we all know that Dinosaur fossils...

Were placed on earth by God to test our faith. Duh! :crazy:

[yellowcanine]

12. Haven't you heard? The Flying Spaghetti Monster made them using noodles

and pesto. "Noodle, pesto, presto, another dino!"

[louis-t]

13. Dinosaurs are 'art' according to one wingnut.

There was a segment on CNN or something the other day about a group that is giving "Creation Tours". They are teaching children that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, that dinosaurs are 'art', that fossils aren't real. The 'tour guide''s final statement is "Who are you going to believe, people or God?" I'm really glad I wasn't armed at that moment, because I can't afford a new tv right now.

[wryter2000]

14. Ask this person

Why did God bother to make people if they're so stupid?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Dinosaurs came from Jersey City

Adam and Eve, contrary to popular belief, were single-celled organisms. So was God at the time. But he evolved. So did they.

[flamin lib]

16. The fundies believe that the Earth was created 6000 years ago

and God put the fossil evidence in place so Man could believe by faith alone.

The rest of us believe the Earth is millions of years old and the evidence is proof.

I, personally, believe that both are right. The Earth is millions of years old, but God created the fundies last April 1 complete with all the evidence of their existence so they could entertain us.

[Shakespeare]

17. Ask her if she knows that the Adam & Eve story was dropped into Genesis...

...long after the book was first written, and then SHOW her. The narrative break in the story is crystal clear--before the A&E story, the creation verses are much more vague and less storybook-ish. Scholars long ago established that the A&E story (and 7-day creation myth) was a late insertion in the book (if I had a copy of Genesis in front of me, I could give you the specific verses).

If you step back and look at the creation verses in Genesis without the A&E story, the issue of time and evolution becomes (for me, anyway) far less problematic. I don't know that that'll help, but maybe it'll at least give your friends pause.

Fundies tend not to be aware that the books of the bible have been heavily tinkered with over the years. I think the lay person's guide (a wonderful book called "Who Wrote the Bible") should be requried reading for anybody who thinks the book was put together chronologically and never tampered with.

[CatWoman]

34. it's a "he"

and he is a minister.

Just sayin' :eyes:

He also tried to tell me America was founded on religion :eyes:

[Shakespeare]

42. oops....sorry about the assumption

Oy....that's too bad when it's somebody who REALLY ought to know better.

The thing I don't get (as someone who grew up a southern protestant) is why so many of the fundies seem terrified, bordering on enraged, by the introduction of bible history and the possibility of alternative views that are (or should be) completely compatible with one's faith.

Studying the historical origins of the bible certainly didn't diminish my faith--if anything, it strengthened and broadened it.

Good on ya, though, for trying to make inroads with your friends in that direction.

[neebob]

53. Adam and Eve were on TV?

Sorry, I couldn't stop myself.

[Ladyhawk]

60. I was taught in school that Moses wrote the Pentateuch. :)

Pentateuch = Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

It's pretty fucking amazing, too, since he wrote the part about what happened after he died. :) Joshua must have channeled him or something.

[mwb970]

68. Aren't there two separate, contradictory A&E stories in Genesis? (n/t)

[underpants]

19. It's all explained here

http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/dinosaurs.asp

[Bjornsdotter]

20. Bill Hicks

...had the best rant on this. I think it's on the Arizona Bay CD.

I believe the premise was that dinosaur fossils were put there to test "our" faith; that god was playing a practical joke.

I miss Bill Hicks....he would have had a field day with this administration.

Cheers!

[obreaslan]

25. See my post #11 above...

I knew I heard that from someone before. Now you reminded me it was Bill Hicks. I miss him. :(

[Bjornsdotter]

32. Great minds....lol

Yep, I miss Bill Hicks...he really hated the * dynasty.

Cheers!

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

75. Bill Hicks quotes

(talking to a creationist) I asked this guy, I said, 'Can I ask you a question? It's a one-word question.' "Go ahead." "Dinosaur. Come on man, Dinosaur fossils. What's the deal?" "Dinosaur fossils? God put those there to test our faith." "I think God put you here to test my faith, dude. You believe that?" "Uh huh." Does that trouble anyone here? The idea that God might be fuckin' with our heads? Anyone have trouble sleeping restfully with that thought in their heads? God's running around, burying fossils: "Huh huh ho. We will see who believes in me now, ha HA. Im a prankster god. I am killing me. Ho ho ho ho." You know, you die, you go to St. Peter, "Did you you believe in dinosaurs?" "Well, you know, there was fossils everywhere." KOOM Ooowwwwwww. "What are you, an idiot? God was FUCKING with you! Giant flying lizards? You moron! That's one of God's easiest jokes!" "It seemed so plausible! Aieeeeeeeee!" Bound for the lake of fire. . . . While I appreciate your quaint traditions, superstitions, and, you know, I on the other hand am an evolved being who deals solely with the source of light which exists in all of us, in our own minds, no middle man required. But anyway, I appreciate your little games and shit, you putting on the tie and going to church, a de da de da. But you know there's a LIVING GOD WHO WILL TALK DIRECTLY FUCKING TO YOU. Sorry, but not too many pages of the Bible that FORGOT TO MENTION DINOSAURS!"

and

Fundamentalist Christianity - fascinating. These people actually believe that the the world is 12,000 years old. Swear to God. Based on what? I asked them.

"Well we looked at all the people in the Bible and we added 'em up all the way back to Adam and Eve, their ages: 12,000 years."
Well how fucking scientific, okay. I didn't know that you'd gone to so much trouble. That's good. You believe the world's 12,000 years old?
"That's right."

Okay, I got one word to ask you, a one word question, ready?

"Uh-huh."

Dinosaurs.

You know the world is 12,000 years old and dinosaurs existed, they existed in that time, you'd think it would have been mentioned in the fucking Bible at some point.

"And lo Jesus and the disciples walked to Nazareth. But the trail was blocked by a giant brontosaurus... with a splinter in his paw. And O the disciples did run a shriekin': 'What a big fucking lizard, Lord!' But Jesus was unafraid and he took the splinter from the brontosaurus's paw and the big lizard became his friend.

"And Jesus sent him to Scotland where he lived in a loch for O so many years inviting thousands of American tourists to bring their fat fucking families and their fat dollar bills.

"And oh Scotland did praise the Lord. Thank you Lord, thank you Lord. Thank you Lord."

[CatWoman]

76. I must make a confession -- for the longest time

I believed the Bible version.

It's just the way I was raised.

[Sapphocrat]

21. Well, Lieberman and Feinstein came from...

Oh, sorry, you said DINOsaurs. Never mind.

[foreigncorrespondent]

45. ROFLMAO

Funniest bloody post!!!

Thanks, baby! I needed the big belly laugh you just gave me. :)

[CatWoman]

74. you guys are all a bunch of assholes!!!!

really, tho -- it's some hilarious responses on this thread. :D

[ScooterKen]

22. This is a good reply to NeoChristians

Say this when you face a NeoChristian:
=======================================
You could not be MORE wrong about this country being founded on judeo-christian ideals.

Thomas Jefferson: "Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law."

George Washington: "The United States of America should have a foundation free from the influence of clergy."

James Madison: "Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."

John Adams: "This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."

To all of those who believe that our founding fathers founded this country on religion, most notably Christianity... please re-think your position. These are the same founding fathers who are viewed as great men, who are quoted unequivcally and whose ideas and laws are considered the best-laid of any in history.

It is ridiculous when things such as the following are accepted: In 1854, the House Judiciary Committee said: "in this age, there is no substitute for Christianity...That was the religion of the founders of the republic, and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.'

This is absolutely not the case.

Thomas Jefferson said each of the following:

"The Christian god can be easily pictured as virtually the same as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of the people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites.

"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man"

"The authors of the gospels were unlettered and ignorant men and the teachings of Jesus have come to us mutilated, misstated and unintelligible"

These men founded our country and these are their opinions... stop throwing that "America was founded on Christian beliefs" crap at us... it's just NOT TRUE.

(found this in the other forum)

[meganmonkey]

23. They were all touched by HIs Noodly Appendage to make it LOOK

like all those things happened, so as to conceal the mystery of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

:shrug:

[spindrifter]

24. I got a cheap, but good looking set at Target.

[Batgirl]

26. I don't know how to communicate with that mindset

but the National Geographic website has so much fascinating info about recent fossil discoveries it makes me wish I'd gone into paleontology.
http://google.nationalgeographic.com/search?site=ngnews&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&q=fossils&btnG=Go

For instance, I hadn't heard that a few months back a T. Rex thighbone was discovered to still contain some preserved soft tissue. 70-million year old bone marrow, it's mind-boggling. They found the specimen in Montana.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0324_050324_trexsofttissue.html

If God planted all this evidence, more and more of which is constantly being dug up, he sure was one busy bee of a deity. Or maybe playing practical jokes is just a way of blowing off the pressures that I'm sure go hand in hand with being Supreme Being.

[troubleinwinter]

27. Dinosaurs on Noah's Ark. No kidding... from "Creation Scientists"

For years, Creation Scientists have disputed how Noah was able to quickly collect millions of indigenous animals from remote, inaccessible regions of the world for a 40-day ride in his ark. New evidence from an archeological find in China supports the long held Christian belief that Noah's sons rode giant flying dinosaurs to transport duck billed platypuses from Australia, and penguins and polar bears from the Antarctic, to name a few. "Those must have been some mighty big flying dinosaurs," says Pastor Deacon Fred. "Imagine the look on Noah's face when his sons flew in for a landing with a pair of Hippos strapped to the back of one of them things! Glory to God!"

"The Lord is just amazing," says Creation Scientist, Dr. Jonathan Edwards. "Whenever Atheist scientists make a new find, they think it will hack away at our Christian beliefs. They must get pretty peeved at how sneaky our Lord is, because whenever they unearth something, it only provides more support for the historical accuracy of the Holy Bible And these flying dinosaurs they keep finding are no exception!"

Dr. Edwards explains that it would have been impossible for Noah's sons to travel to the four corners of the earth to areas that were previously inaccessible on foot. "Noah and his sons had to collect two of every single creature on the face of the planet," he says. "We're talking about a big haul here. At first we just attributed it to what Creation Scientists call, the Holy Finger Snapping Theory. That's where God snaps his fingers and just makes it so." Edwards points out that Creation Scientists are still unanimous in attributing the fact that Noah was able to load 100 million plus animals onto a 450 foot ark "in the selfsame day" (Genesis 7:13-14) to the Finger Snapping Theory. In the case of how the animals were collected from remote regions of the world in the first place however, recent archeological finds indicate that Noah's sons were able to tame giant flying dinosaurs and in turn, load them up with food supplies and hitch rides for long trips around the world to China, South America, Australia, Greenland, and the North Pole.

Creation Scientists estimate that since the Earth is only ten-thousand years old, human beings were living among dinosaurs and had plenty of time to tame them. "I would have loved to have been around to see Cain and Abel rolling around in the grass outside the Garden of Eden playing with the pet raptors their father, Adam, gave them for their birthdays," says Pastor Deacon Fred. "What a glorious time that must have been!"

Through tithing donations from Landover Baptist Church members, the Center for Creation Research was able to secure several fossilized remains of flying dinosaurs valued at over $14 million. The remains will be studied exhaustively for evidence of the leather harnessing used to secure Noah's sons for their long transcontinental journeys.

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/news0605/flyingdinos.html

God is "sneaky"??!!

WTF is a "Creation Scientist"??!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. I love the gems we get from Landover Baptist Church. nt

[neverforget]

28. I had a friend in high school who was a 3.8 student and loved science.

After high school, he met a girl who convinced hime to become a Mormon and go to a Mormon college in Rexburg, ID. He graduated from there and came back home where he and I would constantly get into arguments over science. One of the biggest arguments we had was one about gravity and how everything falls at the same speed regardless of weight. He didn't believe it so I showed him (baseball vs. crumpled paper)and he still didn't believe me. :banghead: It was like he was somehow untaught the laws of physics at that college. :banghead: I couldn't believe it!

[sakabatou]

40. Now that's a throwback!

[slaveplanet]

29. They came from inner earth

Thousands of feet deep, deep inside the hollow earth , and below the seabeds...

How else did you expect all that oil to be down there?

:sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

35. hear you cat, as i stood in an university muesem with a fundie friend

looking at two huge sweeping walls on evolution and millions of years of earths existance and i say to her. now you are telling me this earth is 6009 years old. this is really what you are telling me, as i sweep my hand towards this massive room of information. our kids standing with us having spent two hours in academia.

i hear ya

[Kazak]

37. Show 'em this picture...

It won't necessarily resolve your dinosaur argument, but I always show this picture to anyone who believes in a deity-type god who intervenes in our daily lives. A little perspective never hurt anyone! ;)

[kineneb]

58. Space is big, really big

(thanks to Douglas Adams)

I personally like the t-shirt with the galaxy on it with the caption "you are here" and an arrow pointing to a spot somewhere near the outer edge. Really puts it all in perspective. Space really is big, and the mind of fundies sooo small.

[DanCa]

38. Isn't there something in genesis about "sea monsters".

I cant quote scripture and verse but I think there is and the term sea monster can be a reference to the word "Dinosaurs."

[ThomWV]

39. Shit ..... Everyone knows the Dinosaurs are out in Wyoming

They got so many of the god damed things in Wyoming that they keep a pair of them right in front of the doors to the state's University. I hear that in some places the ground is flat enough to plow but they keep the equipment home 'cause they keep breaking plowpoints on the damned bones. No kidding .....

[hunter]

41. Hah, hah we are all sims.

The entire universe is a fancy video game a teenaged dinosaur is playing in his bedroom with the door closed.

But mostly he looks at dinosaur porn.

[H2O Man]

43. I'm not sure

that cave men were incessently grunting and smacking others about the head with clubs. Where did the clubs come from? Who was allowed to join?

I'm religious, and willing to be your friend.

[CatWoman]

46. Look, Rock Man

I'm religious, too. Well, to a certain degree. :D

and I'd love to have you as my friend :D

Tomorrow, he's supposed to send me some emails detailing his justification. I can hardly wait :eyes:

[H2O Man]

49. When you get them

it might be interesting to compare them to the cave paintings.

[CatWoman]

50. well, I DO intend to redecorate this winter

:7

[Cleita]

47. Actually, what you are talking about is science and

religion shouldn't be trying to replace it. If you don't want to lose friends then I guess you will have to let them wallow in their ignorance, which is too bad. It's what the elitists want, an ignorant population they can manipulate.

[CatWoman]

48. you know, I can deal with the overly religious types ok

it's the right wing nut jobs that I can't handle.

And the homophobes.

[Hello_Kitty]

57. Right Wing Nut Job + Homophobe = Typical Freeper n/t

[mtnester]

51. Here it is, the quintenssential fundie answer....

"If God had wanted us to know about dinsosaurs, he would have told us about them."

And said with complete belief too.

[Hello_Kitty]

55. And I always tell them

If God wants me to believe in him, He'll come to my house and introduce Himself. And He better make some shit levitate or something too.

Amazing how they don't want to hear anything that contradicts or disproves their beliefs but you're just supposed to swallow theirs.

[Zambero]

54. Those big lizards are just a pro-evolution Hollywood fabrication

Godzilla is where it all started!

[Hello_Kitty]

56. And they didn't perish in the Ice Age, it was Mothra! n/t

[elsiesummers]

59. Dinosaurs came from Apes. Everyone knows this. (/jaywalk impersonator)

No wait, not Apes, monkeys. Yeah that's it. Dinosaurs came from monkeys. Like people. Duh.

</really off jaywalk impersonator>

[Maru Kitteh]

61. If you are both nice to each other, you can have a real conversation

Boisterous militancy on either side helps nobody.

[CatWoman]

72. where did you get that from?

Boisterous militancy on either side helps nobody.

Of course we are nice to each other.

It's only DUers that I become boisterous or militant with.

[LittleClarkie]

63. I thought that "Adam" in Hebrew meant simply "Man"

I see it as one gigantic parable (see also story meant to make a point without being literally true)

But hey, that's just me. I try to get the point without worrying about whether or not I'm supposed to believe it actually happened.

[Swamp Rat]

64. HAHAHAHA!!!!

You can try ending the arguments with "who would Jesus bomb?" :)

[TreasonousBastard]

65. It rarely works, but...

I like to ask them "What do the Jews think about all that? After all, they WROTE Genesis."

[BikeWriter]

66. They came from their Mama.

[donheld]

67. Please do NOT learn to keep your mouth shut

Do you really need friends like that?

[chat_noir]

69. ask Fundies this question about Genesis

If Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God, and their children were Cain and Abel (fratricided by his brother), how did Cain become the father of Enoch? Where did his wife come from? Was she his sister? Are we talking incest?

[hayu_lol]

71. Gawd made dinosaurs in...

his own image.

[Marie26]

80. Didn't that same question trip William Jennings Bryant

100 years ago? Didn't seem to change much...

[Marie26]

78. Don't bother

I once had a boss w/a M.A. that didn't believe in evolution. When presented with a toy dinosaur, he said he didn't believe in dinosaurs. When asked about fossils & carbon dating, he said it was a plant to test the faithful. How can you argue with that? I've kind of learned to live & let live cause there's no changing people's minds. As long as no one tries to force their beliefs on me, I guess I'm OK w/it. It helps to keep from losing my friends, and my sanity.

[wixomblues]

79. I was taught that they exsisted with men.

My bio teacher, a hardcore fundie, taught my class in seventh grade that Dinosaurs exsisted in the middle ages. I didn't buy it, but he was allowed to spew that sort of crap.

[hayu_lol]

81. This thread is too much fun to let it die in the archives...

why it even touches on the core of the universe.