Denver Puts the Christ in "Christmas".

[donco6]

Dressed as Joseph and Mary while standing over a doll of a baby Jesus and surrounded by angels and wise men, the Maciases of Edgewater had wondered what kind of reception their Nativity scene - the parade's first-ever religion-themed float - would get.

"In 31 years, there's never been anything religious like this in (this) parade," said Andrew Macias, 43, a parishioner at Denver's Church in the City. "In this country, I'm just glad there's freedom of religion and not freedom from religion."

Heaven forbid we should have the right to be free from the influence of religion. :sarcasm:

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_3274286

[trotsky]

1. Oh, the bravery of those Christians.

Standing up for their beliefs in the face of persecution from... well, uh, the huge Christian majority in this country. :eyes:

[Warpy]

2. They're just making sure that no other ethnic group

gets to claim their own holidays this winter!

I can see them all, purple faces, fists clenched, screaming "MINE MINE MINE MINE AND YOU CAN'T HAVE ANY!!!!" to all those people out there who felt included in the generic "happy holidays" greetings of a more tolerant age.

They'll show all those pagans and heathens who the winter holidays really belong to!

[TallahasseeGrannie]

4. Pagans could come up with an awesome float

I see kind of celtic theme...a lady with long red hair, lots of celtic knots.

[donco6]

5. Hopefully, they'll request a slot.

A winter solstice float would be appropos, no?

[TallahasseeGrannie]

13. Just the words "winter solstice"

make me feel closer to the spirit world.

[NorCalDem]

17. I'm making it a point of calling them "saturnalia trees" now

afterall, since everyone is so concerned with returning "Christmas" to its roots, I'll go all the way back to the real roots of Christmas. The pagan holiday celebrating the winter soltice :D

When I head back to PA for the holiday's, my family is going to be SO confused :D (luckily they will laugh at my cleverness)

[ldf]

37. i'd be happy if

instead of them trying to inject christ back into christmas, they would inject christ back into christianity.

but maybe it is just me....

:shrug:

and i like the sound of "saturnalia trees". it sounds so much closer to nature.

:-)

[donco6]

3. Yes, what an inspiration they are.

The tone of the whole article and others about the event is "how hard they had to fight to get Christ put into the parade." Brother.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

15. Yes, I never can quite see

the persecution complex in a country that is 80 percent or more self-identified Christian.

[kevinbgoode]

6. Hmm..do you think Joseph and Mary and baby Jesus

were white?

Something tells me that they'd almost have to be for the American Taliban to feel properly comforted.

[donco6]

8. I'll try to find a pic.

Looks like they used a hispanic family:

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_4286423,00.html

[TallahasseeGrannie]

14. I would imagine they were the same

race as the church members, but the article doesn't say. It might have been a black church, though. It isn't clear to me. If it was, it is doubtful they recruited white folks for the leading roles.

I make stained glass for churches. Not long ago I did a design for a black church and the Jesus was a warm milk chocolate.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

7. We have a celebration of lights here in Tallahassee

that I think covers it all quite well. Light is a symbol in so many faiths. And wow, do they light up the downtown area, which has a lot of trees. It is stunning and it doesn't bother me in the least that there are no overt Christmas symbols.

But one thing that bothers me (as an artist/art teacher) is that they solicite artwork for a contest but won't accept religious art. That, to me, goes too far. Art is a personal expression. I don't think it should be too sanitized or it loses passion.

Well, I'm glad they fell good about their float. And I hope they don't complain when next year a whole lot of more folks show up with their own faith ready to display.

[kevinbgoode]

9. I'm sure they'll be howling next year if that happens

. . .and you are right about the art - that is just ridiculous.

Last year, my town had a festival of lights parade, and for two weeks the local paper was flooded by "christian" letters to the editor throwing tantrums that the Wiccans had a float in "their" parade.

[donco6]

10. Next year . . .

Yes, I'll be curious to see how the different factions begin relating to each other when they're all allowed into the parade.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. Why Is There A Problem With This?

Did they deny a jewish, muslim or other group that lobbied for a float?

If not, then I don't see why this is supposed to make me angry or something.

I fear we are at risk of taking all this too far, but I know that is just my opinion and others have a right to differ with it.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

12. You know, a parade is supposed to be a variety of

people, each displaying what they are proud of. What better way than a float for every faith who wants to be involved.

One of my favorite books is City of Joy about the slums in India. I think Calcutta, although I no longer remember. But it talks about how the various religions all help each other celebrate. They don't necessarily party with them, but they help them in their preparations, sub for them at work, etc. And these are people who feel lucky to have ten people sleep in a 10 foot square room where the rats run along the shelves nightly like rodents on a wheel.

I highly recommend the book. But don't bother with the movie.

[donco6]

20. Here's the problem for me . . .

Not that there are religious things in the parade - I couldn't really care less. It's the pride and arrogance of it all. It's as if the Christians are saying, "This is our season, and if we're not the CENTRAL FOCUS of it, we're going to accuse you of waging war on us." I hear this when people talk about "putting Christ back in Christmas". Like if you're not a believer, you have no right to even observe a holiday season at all.

That disgusts me.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Ehhh, I just don't get that vibe. They fought for it last year, and were

excited to have it this year. It was also in a community that overwhelmingly supported it.

I see no problem with it. To each town's own.

[donco6]

24. Just wait . . .

Next year when the pagans want in, and the neopagans, and the Wiccans, and the Tuetons, ad infinitum, we'll have to deal with all the frickin' bickering about who deserves to be in the parade. When it was secular this wasn't an issue.

We'll see how excitedly they support the parade when a troop of white-robed Wiccans holding tall candles and chanting Saturnalia comes walking down the street.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. What I don't get is your assumption that this will happen. In addition,

I did not see anything in the article that would suggest there were significant enough numbers within their community that were so against this action that protests are sure to follow.

I could care less about how anyone outside that community feels, as it frankly is none of their damn business. If there is significant uprising within that community due to this action and to the degree that next year's parade will be undermined in its intent, well then I would agree this may have set the wrong precedent.

[donco6]

28. I guess we'll just have to see.

As a member of the community, I'll be very surprised if my predictions don't come true.

[Leopolds Ghost]

38. If they would put the Christ back in Christianity first

before trying to put the Christ back in the Christmas parade, I think they'd find their defensive attitude was unproductive.

If they would just practice freedom of religion without making snide remarks about freedom from religion, they would be more in tune with the "spirit of Christmas". Or they could go to a country that doesn't have religious freedom (or has a state-owned religion) or read up on real persecution over the years and realize folks are dying over a loaf of bread in some parts of the world. It's too bad so many people seem to desire persecution (and then engage in campaigns of vengeance, like early Christian zealots burning the "pagan" Library of Alexandria -- shades of Baghdad 2003).

[dkofos]

16. Denver residents were probably to stoned to notice

[marbuc]

18. Hey Cheyene, the event is called the "Parade of Lights"

not the "Parade of Christmas." I actually don't mind a Christmas themed float, but encourage Jews, Pagans, Muslims and others to do enter equally grand floats.

[begin_within]

19. Here's the protester...

[donco6]

21. Ha! That's good.

But it would probably get you stoned to death by the good Christians here.

[begin_within]

27. thanks

[Skip Intro]

23. Wonder if they would have allowed a Satanic float?

or Wiccan, or Muslim, etc...

Freedom OF religion is for everybody, yes?

[donco6]

25. I'm waiting for that one.

I mean, Satan surely has a stake in Christmas, too, right?

[GRLMGC]

29. The idea of the float doesn't bother me

but that comment about no "freedom from religion" pisses me off.

[donco6]

31. I'm hoping the person really didn't understand . . .

what he was implying. Like we don't have the right to keep religion from influencing our lives. Which we most certainly do.

[bluedawg12]

35. GRLMGC- you bet! we are free to worship or not, that is guaranteed.

Or at least it was.

[mitchum]

30. That "not freedom from religion" tripe has been spoonfed to the wingers...

they all spout that one now. And I seriously doubt that it is a coincidence that they are all now saying it.

[FreedomAngel82]

32. Someone doesn't know his Constiution

:eyes: And as I've asked other Christians in other debates about this: what if the pagans were the majority? What if it was "Goddess in We Trust"? Eh? I betcha they wouldn't like that would they?

[Leopolds Ghost]

39. You mean like in Ancient Rome?

Unfortunately, the Church has a history of hypocrisy on that score.

Their attitude toward pagan persecution of Christians was "what's good for the goose is good for the gander".

A couple Roman Emperors post-Constantine tried to promote religious pluralism. This was not popular with the church crowd...

especially when they were forced to give back all the wealth they had looted from pagan temples.

To what extent attitudes changed with the Reformation is hard to say.

The Anabaptists were burned at the stake for refusing to take up arms against invading Turks. Their descendants, the Baptists, used to be against state establishment of religion. The Congregationalists (Puritans) used to be for theocracy. Not sure how the roles reversed.

[bluedawg12]

33. That's the problem- there is both!

Freedom of and freedom from religion.

Those that enjoy the liberties of freedom of religion want to impose their view on those who are free to chose no religion.

Religion being equated as spirituality, or worship, when it is nothing more than organized worship.


Joe Liebrman said this same tripe about religion freedom of and not from..I almost puked.

[LuCifer]

34. Can we put the PAGAN back into YULE, as it ORIGNALLY WAS??!?!?!?!?

CUMBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[donco6]

36. Sorry, Yule has been officially trademarked by Jesus.

Too bad.