Great article - the role of 'faith' in the USA vs other developed nations

[StellaBlue]

... and a good general explanation of the mindset from which atheism springs.

Obviously this may get moved to the religion or atheism forum, but I would like to point out that I do not see why, as this is 'GENERAL Discussion', is it not? As in, all topics are allowed? I post here because I think it is GENERALLY relevant to our concerns here at DU and I think this is a great article that is worth being read and should not be marginalized by being posted elsewhere.

I also think that many of the author's points and ideas touch on and could certainly be extrapolated to the larger cultural divide we are experiencing - I know we have all been dumbfounded by the wilfull ignorance we see displayed by fundies, Rethuglican voters, and RW cultural warriors. And, invariably, are moved to ask: what could they possibly be thinking?


http://www.truthdig.com/dig/item/200512_an_atheist_manifesto/

(snip)
...

It is worth noting that no one ever needs to identify himself as a non-astrologer or a non-alchemist. Consequently, we do not have words for people who deny the validity of these pseudo-disciplines. Likewise, atheism is a term that should not even exist. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make when in the presence of religious dogma. The atheist is merely a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87% of the population) who claim to never doubt the existence of God should be obliged to present evidence for his existence and, indeed, for his benevolence, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day. Only the atheist appreciates just how uncanny our situation is: Most of us believe in a God that is every bit as specious as the gods of Mount Olympus; no person, whatever his or her qualifications, can seek public office in the United States without pretending to be certain that such a God exists; and much of what passes for public policy in our country conforms to religious taboos and superstitions appropriate to a medieval theocracy. Our circumstance is abject, indefensible and terrifying. It would be hilarious if the stakes were not so high.

(snip)
...

According to several recent polls, 22% of Americans are certain that Jesus will return to Earth sometime in the next 50 years. Another 22% believe that he will probably do so. This is likely the same 44% who go to church once a week or more, who believe that God literally promised the land of Israel to the Jews and who want to stop teaching our children about the biological fact of evolution. As President Bush is well aware, believers of this sort constitute the most cohesive and motivated segment of the American electorate. Consequently, their views and prejudices now influence almost every decision of national importance. Political liberals seem to have drawn the wrong lesson from these developments and are now thumbing Scripture, wondering how best to ingratiate themselves to the legions of men and women in our country who vote largely on the basis of religious dogma. More than 50% of Americans have a “negative” or “highly negative” view of people who do not believe in God; 70% think it important for presidential candidates to be “strongly religious.” Unreason is now ascendant in the United States--in our schools, in our courts and in each branch of the federal government. Only 28% of Americans believe in evolution; 68% believe in Satan. Ignorance in this degree, concentrated in both the head and belly of a lumbering superpower, is now a problem for the entire world.

(snip)
...

While most Americans believe that getting rid of religion is an impossible goal, much of the developed world has already accomplished it. Any account of a “god gene” that causes the majority of Americans to helplessly organize their lives around ancient works of religious fiction must explain why so many inhabitants of other First World societies apparently lack such a gene. The level of atheism throughout the rest of the developed world refutes any argument that religion is somehow a moral necessity. Countries like Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on Earth. According to the United Nations’ Human Development Report (2005) they are also the healthiest, as indicated by measures of life expectancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate and infant mortality. Conversely, the 50 nations now ranked lowest in terms of human development are unwaveringly religious. Other analyses paint the same picture: The United States is unique among wealthy democracies in its level of religious literalism and opposition to evolutionary theory; it is also uniquely beleaguered by high rates of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy, STD infection and infant mortality. The same comparison holds true within the United States itself: Southern and Midwestern states, characterized by the highest levels of religious superstition and hostility to evolutionary theory, are especially plagued by the above indicators of societal dysfunction, while the comparatively secular states of the Northeast conform to European norms. Of course, correlational data of this sort do not resolve questions of causality--belief in God may lead to societal dysfunction; societal dysfunction may foster a belief in God; each factor may enable the other; or both may spring from some deeper source of mischief. Leaving aside the issue of cause and effect, these facts prove that atheism is perfectly compatible with the basic aspirations of a civil society; they also prove, conclusively, that religious faith does nothing to ensure a society’s health.

Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world. The dubious link between Christian literalism and Christian values is also belied by other indices of charity. Consider the ratio in salaries between top-tier CEOs and their average employee: in Britain it is 24 to 1; France 15 to 1; Sweden 13 to 1; in the United States, where 83% of the population believes that Jesus literally rose from the dead, it is 475 to 1. Many a camel, it would seem, expects to squeeze easily through the eye of a needle.

[NVMojo]

1. sure ...we are a blood thirsty nation, I am sure jesus would approve

[PDJane]

2. I do not believe in the God of Abraham.

It's a personal opinion that mankind made an error when he decided that there was one God and He was male.

Thank you for the post and the link.

[justgamma]

3. I don't understand the mentality that says

"I can do whatever I want to do. Lie, cheat, steal, etc. because Jesus died for my sins." Sometimes I wonder if Shrub can do all that he's doing because he's "born again" every morning. So he starts with a clean slate each day? I just don't get it.

[AndyTiedye]

4. kickety/Recommendee

:kick:

[lildreamer316]

5. Great read; ..

thanks for posting and I am going to go get his book b/c it comes highly reccommended by a friend also. I agree that this is an issue that needs adressing in the progressive community; best summed up by the preface to the article:

"Sam Harris argues that progressive tolerance of faith-based unreason is as great a menace as religion itself.....appeasement of religious extremists of all faiths by moderates, has been and continues to be the greatest threat to world peace and a sustained assault on reason."

I am not sure what the solution to this problem is; but it needs discourse BADLY.


However; I can never truly agree with athiesim because of one thing-energy is neither created or destroyed. I believe that myths; even ones so twisted in time as the Christian one; have a deeper truth buried in them.Who are we to limit creation by rules such as there is no God or there is? Who says all things are NOT possible? What scientist can say that he knows this for sure? By limiting possibilities you insult yourself and creation/world/science itself.

RICHARD BACH spells it out in succinct form in Illusions and ESPECIALLY in Running from Saftey. Wish everyone would give it a read and see what they think sometime.
"The original sin is to limit the IS. Don't"

I look foreward to more discussion on this subject eagerly.Love to learn from you all...

[StellaBlue]

6. great post

While I describe myself as an atheist because I find it's the most accurate cultural shorthand, I agree with your thoughts. The usual concept of 'God' is just waaaaay to narrow. I do NOT believe in what most people are referring to when they talk about 'God'. But the energy thing I find interesting, too... in fact I posted just what you said regarding this in another thread last night about whether DUers believed in life after death of any sort... but I don't have time to find the link, as my breakfast is ready!

haha

Thanks for posting!

[lildreamer316]

8. I know the thread you're referring to...

I just didn't realize that was you! Do you consider yourself more atheist or agnostic? I find the concept of atheism as usually defined just as limiting as organized religion. I believe many are ready to move past both to a different understanding of life/universe. If most middle of the road Christians and atheists sat down and had an actual discussion, I think many misunderstandings would be cleared up (like that is going to happen..!). I wish more would read The Chalice and the Blade...not to convince them that a matriarchal-centered worship is intrinsically better; but so they could understand her inspired concluding argument for a true partnership society; one that values the divinity of each gender without elevating either to worship status. Scientists and archaeologists have long found that, although myths mainly exist in a moral capacity; many have basis in actual events. They have just been translated into generalized symbolisim to get the message to as many people as possible-and in the process become unrecognizable as true events. The truth of such things is usually so mundane no one would believe it; because it would also lead to the eventual conclusion that such morality/divinity resides in every individual=every individual is "divine" or moral/has "god" inside of them if they just know how to look for it. I love Richard Bach's writings on this subject as referenced in my other post; he spells out the concept in a much clearer way than I can..without telling you to agree with him absolutely.
But I am wayyyy off the subject of the OP. His assertion that progressives' tolerance of rabid right-wing fanatic ideology is extremely dangerous is a pretty easy conclusion to make; but I don't really know what the answer is to that. How can you be progressive and intolerant of what they call their religion? Sure; I agree that it really isn't spiritual (what they are doing in the name of their religion); neither is what extremist Islamics do...but that does not help the perception of persecution that would hang over any action the progressive side would take in regards to this. We have to proceed carefully but decisively. I really believe this subject is the ROOT of all other problems we have; and should really have MUCH more of our attention than we are giving it. Oh well; here's hoping.....
and thanks for letting me ramble on....:hi:

[ultraist]

7. "Only 28% believe in evolution"

I find that hard to believe. Their other stats seem off too.