SEIU endorsement of Dean would derail "anti-black" charges

[CMT]

The charge by Rev. Al Sharpton that Howard Dean is "anti-black" and the coordinated effort of several campaigns to label Dean's comments regarding wanting to expand the base of the Democratic party to include Southern White males who drive pick ups with confederate flags on it would be derailed by one act this week.

No, not the formal endorsement of Rep. Jesse Jackson, Jr. as welcome as that will be especially when he is campaigning with Dean in South Carolina churches. Not even the endorsement of Rep. John Conyers of Michigan (and one of the most respected African-American leaders in congress) who escorted Dean to two African-American churches in Detroit just a couple of weekends ago and is expected sometime in the coming weeks to formally come out for Dean.

This "anti-black" charge will be demolished if Dean receives the Service Employees International Union (SEIU) endorsement. This union is one of the largest in the AFL-CIO with 1.6 million members. They have been polling members and the news has been good for Dean. A straw-poll of SEIU members in New Hampshire last weekend had Dean winning 3-1 over nearest challenger Dick Gephardt.

The SEIU is also one of the most racially and ethically diverse unions in this country. It represents janitors, healthcare workers, and other service employees. African-Americans and Latinos make a huge percentage of their members.

The word is that SEIU will either endorse Dean or nobody. The coordinated efforts of the Kerry, Gephardt, and Edwards team to keep this endorsment of Dean from occuring demonstrates how important this union endorsment would be.

[1songbird]

1. It depends on how much information gets deciminated

to the public about his anti-black comments. The more I hear about Dean the less I like him personally. DUers have the inside track more so than the general public who get their news from the mainstream television media so I think the verdict is still out.

[Ripley]

4. What did he say that was anti-Black?

If you don't like him personally fine. But do you have to parrot the lie that is out there?

[KaraokeKarlton]

6. Howard Dean doesn't make "anti-black" comments

Howard Dean's opponents take bits of his statements and try to mislead voters into thinking he is biased. They are "race-baiting" and trying to prevent unity among poor blacks and poor whites in the south. They do this for selfish reasons, NOT for the good of the country. It's pathetic and no one here should fall for such Republican tactics.

[CMT]

7. what anti-black comments?

I've seen him at a rally and on television he speaks about "inclusion" about "dialouge with the country" regarding civil rights. He blasts Bush on the use of the word "quotas" It is doubtful that a major union which represents many African-Americans or such African-American leaders as Jesse Jackson, Jr. or Major Owens would endorse a racist for president. These comments by various candidates is just another slur to try and derail Dean (imo) because everything else they have tried (so far) has failed they are going for the big gun of using the race card. I think it is unfortunate.

[RetroLounge]

11. The more I hear about Dean the less I like him personally

So you don't know him personally, but you can dislike him personnaly?

right...

[JNelson6563]

14. *strolls in with watering can*

*sprinkles a little water on 1songbird* *strolls off whistling*

[unfrigginreal]

40. LOL

:yourock:

[Pastiche423]

54. Too cool

[NewYorkerfromMass]

2. No unions should be endorsing Dean

if electibility is their concern, and a union lawyer I know says that is their one and only concern. They are all fighting for their very survival in the face of Reagan II.
And I'll say it for the zillionth time: Dean's dove/hawk/dove incongruity is what will sink him in the general. Americans will not entrust their national defense to Dean over Bush.

[poskonig]

3. You guys sound like Republicans.

Dean-Clark, Dean-Graham, et cetera, would be powerful tickets.

People are taking the candidate bashing in this forum way to far.

[Ripley]

5. Exactly. When they start saying Bush is better than Dean.

You gotta wonder.

I guess they have to spin everywhich way but loser when they back candidates who are part of the problem now.

[Atlant]

33. Do you assume this is just random bashing? I certainly don't.

> People are taking the candidate bashing in this forum way to far.

Do you assume this is just random bashing? I certainly don't.
Suitably divided, we'll be conquered.

Atlant

[Hep]

10. Say it for the zillionth time, it's fine

because you haven't qualified it for the first time yet.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

17. Here: "Kerry in strongest position to take on George W. Bush"

"A newly released Washington Post-ABC news poll conducted October 26-29 confirms that Kerry polls best among the leading Democrats and is in the strongest position to take on George W. Bush..."

http://www.johnkerry.com/news/releases/pr_2003_1103a.html

I am sending this to all the unions I can with a letter.

Good luck finding your own polls.

[Hep]

50. I'm glad

that you are making an effort to prove your allegations, but your information doesn't indicate that Dean can't beat Bush. It's just a poll that says Kerry has a better chance.

Is this what passes for convincing? I hope not.

[Hep]

51. And something else about your link

Look how inflammatory that stuff is. Dean would get trounced? I'd like for you to show me a page from Dean's campaign that speaks so ill of other candidates.

Kind of a shame that even the Kerry campaign can't promote itself without trying to drag someone else down. Thanks for posting that link. It's very telling about the nature of Kerry's campaign. End result, now I have to shower twice after voting for Kerry if he wins the nomination. Great.

[depakid]

18. Apparently two unions disagree with you

soon to be a third and possibly a forth, AFSCME.

Your comments remind me of an old lawyer's saying "if you can't pound the facts, pound the law and if you can't pound the law pound the table."

The facts are:

With respect to SEIU, their endorsement makes perfect sense, considering that Dean went above and beyond the call of duty in backing Vermont nurses efforts to organize. When was the last time you saw a governor publicly go to bat for organized labor like that?

With respect to electability, you are again- dead wrong. That's why you have to keep pounding... err... saying things a zillion times.

Dean's not only electible, he's probably THE most electible. Dean is the only one to have generated the kind of energy, enthusiasm and grass roots support that it will take to counter the Republican's BIG money media campaign. The fact that he's not a person who can be pigeonholed (read- he's a rational independent thinker) is a HUGE strength that's not only going to win over so called swing voters, but is going to bring a substantial block of new voters and participants into the process.

In fact, he already has. Not only that, they're organized.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

25. but outside the circle of Democratic enthusiasm

there's a whole lot of people who see things quite differently- where national security is a whole lot more important than any union. And as much as some people may like him, Dean won't be able to do a thing for unions if he can't get elected.

[depakid]

30. You must have misread

Dean is bringing new participants into the process and appeals to indepedant and swing voters with his no bullshit style. Some have compared him to McCain in this respect, and I'm not so sure that's to far off the mark.

Another thing to consider, by this time next year, the war will be as bad if not worse than it is now- as will the economy. Those are pretty well givens. The economy will probably even worse off than the war efforts, because almost every single policy-making decision made by this administration and its Republican Congress are THE EXACT OPPOSITE of what should be done under the circumstances.

But Don't take my word for it. Read Paul Krugman- he's got a column on it today. Or read what Nobel prizewinner Joseph Stiglitz (and at least 9 other Nobel prizewinning economists) have to say about the Republican's economic policies.

[quinnox]

8. I don't think so

While it would be a significant lift to the Dean campaign, it won't in one fell swoop dispell all the talk about Dean's statements.

You can expect Dean to take a lot of heat over this kind of thing from the other contenders as well as Sharpton, they will try to topple Dean and when given this kind of ammunition on a regular basis they will take advantage.

[KaraokeKarlton]

21. They can try all they want, but it won't work

And it will only look them look bad. In the 20 years Dean has been in politics, nothing thrown at him has stuck. He's mastered dealing with this. He simply dismisses what is said as being the nonsense that it is, and goes back to talking about what's important. While he's busy talking about important things that people care about, his opponents are still repeating the same tired old crap that didn't work the first time and won't work the millionth time they say it. In the meantime, they aren't out there getting new voters for themselves. I think that's exactly what Dean wants them to do, too.

[Hep]

9. It's obvious: SEIU is racist

Can't you see? It's so obvious!

Dean hates black people! And latinos! And labor!

If Dean gets this endorsement, the commies are going to invade.

[mandyky]

22. Please add your sarcasm tags

LOL, some of these people will believe you.

[Hep]

26. Eek sorry!

Noted!

[AP]

12. What Dean says isn't anti-black, but it's not very liberal

Here's what he says:

-class, not race, should be measure for AA
-I'm the only Democrat to talk bluntly about race
-my blunt talk about race is actually an allegory about anti-male geneder discrimination
-caring about high black incarceratioin rates is "weepy and liberal" -- drug treatment programs can solve that problem

[Ripley]

13. It's a little disingenuous to make up quotes.

You should at least provide links to those Cliff notes of yours.

Now he's not anti-black. You guys are like ping-pong. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no, well okay no, but...

[Code_Name_D]

15. Oh I disagree

His comments were aboud inclusion. Not about welcoming racists into his camp as the cluckers charge, but about telling them that "your hatred of the black people has not availed you, and has infact betraed you. Put down your hate, and joine us in the fight to secuire our economic prosparity. All other things shall follow."

That is what he said. And it has to scare the bajebies out of the DLC and the cluckers and the "I am a CEO for 11 corperations" canadate. This is precisly the crises of democracy that gives them nightmares.

And you may note, Martain Luther King Jr's dream did not exclude the "former sothern slave owners." But included them. Dean's comments mirror that sentement.

[Ripley]

16. Good post Code D.

The problem with some of our Northern dwelling friends on DU is that they have never been to the south and never even speak to southerners, including BLACK southerners yet they make sweeping generalizations about how southerners (black or white) think.

That is wrong.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Did I hear someone say "sweeping generalizations"?

Like white guys in pick-ups with confederate flags on them?

[Eloriel]

32. Well, there's somebody who's never visited the South

Or if s/he has, never paid any attention.

Eloriel

[Code_Name_D]

39. This isn't about "knowing" the south.

As much as it is about having the right to talk to them. We all know how difcult it is to try and convince a skin head of the error of his ways. Bur beleave or not, it is posible. A few have even been known to escape that world of hate on there own.

But we don't have to know the skinhead, to be there when they do have that appifiny. Nore do we have to know them, to give them the truth. But we DO have to try. We DO have to be there when they do cry out for help in the night.

For the past 20 years, the Democrats have NOT been there. So they only had Republicans to turn to, or to become lost in the wilderness. Its about time some one went into the woods after them.

I have to thank the cluckers for one thing. If they never brought this up, I might not have ever of heard this hopeful jem from Dean, as a lot of others of folks as well. It has renewed hope. And hope is the fuel that powers Dean's campain.

[AP]

24. I'm not saying he's welcoming racists. I'm saying his talk about race is

lame.

[Eloriel]

34. You're in no position to say that -- you haven't heard him

He talked about race when he came to Atlanta in August. He spoke at length, and very movingly, and forthrightly. Just as he said he would (talk about race and racial issues with white people when he comes South). It was quite inspiring. I know you didn't hear that.

So you have nothing on which to base your criticism.

Eloriel

[Code_Name_D]

41. Actualy, Dean dismisses race. n/t

no text

[mzmolly]

31. BRAVO code name D

:toast:

[mzmolly]

20. He never said 'class not race' AP

He said consider additional programs that look at class.

I'll let the rest of your spin speak for itself. U forgot Dean's a Libertarian :eyes:

[AP]

23. Citations:

-class, not race, should be measure for AA
This was from the CNN show in 95. You remember? Last Friday? Sharpton talked about it.

-I'm the only Democrat to talk bluntly about race
You really don't remember this one? It has been discussed extensively here.

-my blunt talk about race is actually an allegory about anti-male geneder discrimination
Listen to his record setting conference call. He repeated the blunt talk statement, which he followed with a story about anti-white male discrimination which he fought against in his office. That ain't blunt talk about race.

-caring about high black incarceratioin rates is "weepy and liberal" -- drug treatment programs can solve that problem
Howard University. It was one of the first speeches he gave after all the hooplah about blunt talk about race.

If you really don't remember this stuff, I'll waste my time finding links. But I think that if you don't it says an awful lot about who is and who isn't paying attention to what's going on in this campaign.

[Hep]

27. Look at what passes for citations these days!

-class, not race, should be measure for AA
This was from the CNN show in 95. You remember? Last Friday? Sharpton talked about it.

A paraphrase of a paraphrase of a paraphrase of a partial quote! You've got Dean dead to rights on that one! Waste your time and find a link please.

[AP]

28. Dean on affirmative action circa '95

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=188588

Sharpton also cited a Dean remark from April 9, 1995 in which he was questioned on affirmative action. Dean said: "You know, I think we ought to look at affirmative action programs based, not on race, but on class and opportunities to participate."

Dean's campaign had no comment on the 1995 remark.


CNN actually played the tape of Dean saying this on Cnn

[mzmolly]

29. Deans campaign did have a comment.

Dean Statement on University of Michigan Decisions

"I am delighted that the Supreme Court has upheld the principle of affirmative action in education. This was a victory for the civil rights of all Americans. The Bush Administration had urged the Court to reverse course in the nation’s historic march to equality, but the Court’s majority wisely refused to do so.

When President Bush used the inflammatory word “quota” to describe the Michigan program, I criticized him for distorting the facts. Now, the Supreme Court has rejected that misleading label. It is time for the President to stop using code words that divide Americans by race, gender, income, and sexual orientation.

As President, I would pursue policies that encourage racial diversity on college campuses because I know that diversity serves important goals -- it produces benefits for all students, and for society as a whole. The Supreme Court decision clears the way for policies that advance both equity and excellence.

In her majority opinion Justice O'Connor suggests that race-sensitive affirmative action will no longer be necessary in 25 years. If Justice O'Connor is saying that these programs should fade away when they are no longer needed, I agree wholeheartedly. If she is predicting that the need will disappear within 25 years, I hope she's right, but we should wait and see. If she is setting a deadline, regardless of realities, then she is mistaken, and perhaps a future Court will make an adjustment.

But even now, with the ink barely dry on the Court’s decision, extreme opponents of affirmative action are promising to make the dismantling of these programs a litmus test for Supreme Court nominations. President Bush should speak out against such demands from his right flank. He should commit himself now to seek nominees who will stand in the mainstream, committed to progress not rollback."

Dean's position on Affirmative Action is clear.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

36. Good for Dean. He eschews "code words" and goes straight to specifics

that divide Americans, like pick-up trucks and the confederate flag.

[Ripley]

42. LOL! I drive a pick-up truck...that's DIVISIVE????

Get real man! You clearly have not been to the south. Dean has and as any casual observer can see, the majority of whites, blacks, Latinos, hell everyone owns a pickup truck. You see, in mostly rural places people actually USE pick-up trucks.

[AP]

43. Do you have a confederate flag on your pick-up?

Are you going to put one on it now that you know that's who Dean wants to be the candidate for?

For a black person in the south or anywhere, what do you think is the iconography of "pickup+confederate flag" -- what do you think that symbol means?

[Ripley]

46. You really aren't well informed on the subject here.

I live in the south. I know black people here. They do not see the c. flag as a nazi symbol, no matter how much you want them to.

The majority of citizens, including BLACK CITIZENS of Mississippi voted for the C flag to remain on their state flag about 2 years ago.

Are you saying THOSE black people are fearful of the flag? Why did they vote that way? Or are you saying they are too stupid to know what it means? Maybe there is another explanation you people just refuse to hear.

The flag itself is not ONLY SYMBOLIC OF SLAVERY. It means a lot more than that. And not everyone who has one is a black-hater.

[AP]

48. I wish I could remember the name of the author...

...I just heard a short story on the radio by a black southern author about a fictinonal character who goes out and buys a used car with a confederate flag in the back window.

There wouldn't have been much to make a story out of if it was true that the confederate flag isn't such a divisive symbol of racism.

[LoZoccolo]

49. I'd rather vote for the candidate...

...that challenges someone to consider how they're being strung along by their attachment to racism than one who just tries to ignore them and let them go on. Are you of the former or latter group?

(You've known this for three days now.)

[Hep]

53. Easy

It means "People who could benefit the most from good public education".

What does it mean for you?

[Hep]

52. And

you're noticing this for the first time in how many months that he has said it, written it, etc?

What's the deal with that? Did you just let the ball drop, or were you waiting for a more politically expedient time to bring it up?

[AP]

37. Libertarian Dean vs. Democratic Dean

Is anyone surprised that Libertarian Dean, 1995 model year didn't show up to talk about the UofM case?

[kodi]

35. nope, i hope i'm wrong but think he fucked himself with the flag remark.

dean partisans need to reflect on their emotions about the flag flap as if the remarks had been made by another candidate. they would be screaming about it.

union endorsements will not recover for dean the rep he lost by seeming to want to appeal to people who are blatant racists.

and if union endorsements were the coin of the realm gephardt would be king croesus.

i am more pissed off at dean for his lack of verbal discipline than the actual remarks on this issue because i am shaking my head in disbelief and asking myself "what the fuck was he thinking?"

i like this guy and what he is trying to build with grass roots democracy and i expect him to win the democratic nomination and be a good president, but this just puts another hurdle in his way that he built for himself with his mouth.

in case none of us know by now, the democratic candidate in 2004 will have to run a perfect campaign to have a chance to beat bush. the media will not let slip anything a democratic candidate says and whomever it is must be as caesar's wife, above reproach.

i cant imagine al gore saying something like that. gore knows better. dean should too.

[CMT]

38. the point is

that a union which has large minority representation would not offend their members and face a backlash if what Dean said was truly racist--which it was not.

[returnable]

47. For me, the point is...

...it was an extremely poor choice of words.

I would've been satisfied if he said, "Ya know what, I should have phrased that differently."

But he didn't. And the fact that he has tried to gloss over such a sensitive issue is a cause of concern for me.

Plenty of his supporters here have posted far better expositions on reaching out to white southern males without using the confederate flag. That the doctor was unable to this himself is troubling to me.

Even more troubling to me is that some Dean supporters have tried to spin past the obvious racist symbolism of the Stars'n'Bars.

[Forkboy]

44. Clark and Kerry supporters seem especially troubled by his statements

[bicentennial_baby]

45. Not me

I think it was a poor choice of an analogy, but otherwise I could'nt care less.