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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:43 PM
Original message
Not wanting to start an argument, but just what is it that you anti-dems
want that the dems are not fighting for? Please be specific and I will try my best to do so as well. Any help is deeply appreciated.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'..,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
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tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. anti-dems at DU?
Eh?
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Who dat?
Mein name ist Shane. Ich komme aus Ohio. Was ist die anti-dems?
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tinnypriv Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Get lost peacenik!
:D
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markbark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Methinks
this is a slap at the Greens/Naderites/ et al.

--MAB
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FlashHarry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. It's not a slap. It was an honest question.
And, yes, I think it was directed at our Green friends.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. And yes, you would be wrong.
I am specifically addressing anti-dems. I fully understand that most will not respond to this question and I never try to upstage a "friend". I'm speaking to anti-dems, green and otherwise.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
42. The hell it wasnt intended as a slur
This particular poster has a history of such slurs and slams, thinking in his muddled right wing paradise that insulting and diminishing Greens and former democrats is the way to gain their votes in the coming election.

I am not a Green, at least not yet, but I am insulted for them. It isnt as if we see a sterling history of success from these Vichy Democrats at the polls or anywhere else. If and when Bush wins another four year opportunity to wreak mnore havoc on the world it will fall on the shoulders of haters like him!
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. This particular poster has no illusions about attracting adamant Green
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 08:25 PM by Psychoblues99
voters or any other adamant opposition voters. Just what do you mean by that very unfounded bile that you project, Ardee or am I just confusing the subject for you? I asked what is it that the anti dems want. Are you providing the best you can for an answer? Or were you not refering to me or my question?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,,.,.,,.,,.,.,.,.,.,,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,,,.,,.,.,,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.

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Ardee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 06:19 AM
Response to Reply #51
65. dont play the innocent Psycho
Your posts re the Greens or ,for that matter, anyone who dares not toe the DLC quisling line, are always insulting ,rude and serve only to widen the gap between democrats and those on the left. Most folks learn, somewhere around Junior High that ,to attract folks, one uses honey not vinegar.

I would imagine that you serve a rather different agenda as your vituperativeness serves only to ensure a Bush reelection. Unlike the Vichy Democratic leadership and those who support them, the left works tirelessly to end the injustices, and ,by the by, certain principles are above compromise. But then I guess you agree with the strategies of McAuliffe, From and company that places the winning of corporate monies as far more important than winning back alienated voters.

The hell with the numbers who die in Iraq daily, the hell with the growing unrest in Afghanistan, the hell with the crumbling domestic economy, the hell with the disappearing safety nets for seniors and the poor, its just too much fun insulting those who actually care about more than money, those who actually have principles!
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drdigi420 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Im not an anti-dem
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 05:48 PM by drdigi420
but it would be nice if they would take on the failed war on drugs as a major issue, especially since it affects every issue they claim to care about, including education, poverty, racism, and civil rights.

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Noon_Blue_Apples Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. And BINGO was his name-o

Perfect example of Dem hypocrisy. With King Bill wearing the crown.

Bill
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Many Dems address that issue. Can you be more specific?
:-)

:toast:

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,,..,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,..,,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,
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Dude_CalmDown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
62. Exactly
The drug war is a perfect example of the shit that I cannot stand about most elected Dem leaders. Everyone knows how wrong our war on drugs is but nobody wants to say shit because they think it would be political suicide (funny how that always involves telling the truth). What else?

-Everyone felt a great loss when Wellstone died but if he were alive and running for President he would currently be getting Kuciniched by Begala, Carville, the DLC, etc. etc.

-People who could listen to that blathering fuck Lieberman and not rip large clumps of hair out of their head.

-How about the massive joke that is military spending and why doesn't anyone want to say anything about it?

-Why aren't any of our Democrat leaders asking any one of the hundreds of unanswered questions about 9-11?

-That I was able to see in August of last year what a fucking joke the concept that Iraq was a threat to us and yet most of our Dem leaders still couldn't by October. Why is a person's career (and worry of looking weak on defense) worth more than tens of thousands of Iraqi lives?

-Why the hell is Madeleine Albright given a free ride here?

-Why is Clinton's delay in getting involved in Rwanda OK with anyone here?

Do I still vote Dem? Yes. Do they piss me off? Very much so. Do I think Dems are as bad as the pukes? No fucking way - I watch a lot of C-SPAN so that's impossible. But do I think the people I vote for deserve to be kept in check and deserve a lot of criticism? Absofuckinglutely.
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. the DEMs are not my problem
labeling people anti-DEM because they care about issues and are at times disappointed and express their disappointment IS my problem.



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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Have you figured out a party to label as your own, bm?
I have the same problem in a different way.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,..,.,.,,.
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. well i'm a registered DEM
who supports Progressives.
i do have a problem with the DLC but, not all members of the DLC.
guilt by association is a terrible thing, you know?

i look at the individual politician and the circumstances and base my opinions on a case by case basis. (unless the pol is just a total wastecase ;-)

btw, check the boards and find the last time a spent a whole lot of time criticizing DEMs.



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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I do the same, bm. Am I a wastecase ;-) ?
Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin' .,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,..,,
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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. nah
i was thinking along the lines of LaRouche. scary!
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. "anti-dem"?
Are you talking about those who're not registered Democrats? Do you appreciate the substantive difference (I and others see) between a democrat and a Democrat? :shrug:

Gee, let's talk about people (who don't agree with my own enlightened opinions, of course) who're "pro-abortion" and "anti-life" and "pro-death" and "pro-armed-children" and "anti-freedom" and ... hey! here's an idea! ... "anti-American"!!! Yeah! That's a good one! Gee, that sure sounds like a fabulous way to avoid arguments, right???

Outfuckingstanding! :puke:
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I sure didn't expect to see you here, TahitiNut!!!!!!!!!!!
I was more concerned with those that claim to be lefties but do nothing to advance leftist ideals. Surely you can dig that, can't you, TahitiNut?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. Gotta say what you mean and mean what you say.
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 06:31 PM by TahitiNut
Loading a question with "anti-dem" sure doesn't communicate in a way that avoids flames -- at least not in the language I study most (English, American style).

As a side note, I'll offer my observation that there seem to be plenty of elected Democrats who don't seem committed to democracy and democratic values. Thus, I'd say there're "Dems" who're "anti-dem". :shrug:


As the strawboss says, "What we have here is a failure to communicate."

Peace, my friend. :hippie:
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. Whilst I enjoy my strawchew
:hippie: peace to you as well.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,..,,
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Do you mean anti-Dems or anti-DLC? Be clear. n/t
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Enumeration
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 06:22 PM by ThorsteinVeblen
I believe the Democratic Party is weak, ineffectual, corrupt and full of cowards that can't lead. These are the issues that the Democratic Party either refuses to address or buries for political reasons that they should be fighting for:


1.) Corporate Reform. Even the Wall Street Journal (not exactly a bastion of anti-capitalist thought) argues that Sarbanes-Oxley didn't go far enough and didn't address the real systemic corruption at the heart of our investment sector. Something Joe Lieberman and other corrupt players like Terry McAuliffe and Chuck Schumer prevented.

2.) Expensing of Stock Options - something Joe Lieberman quashed to pacify his investment buddies who are his biggest contributors.

3.) Ken Lay in jail

4.) Jeffery Skilling in jail

5.) The arrest and prosecution of Saudi Arabian elites, including Royal Family memebers, who are ultimately responsible for 9/11.

6.) A moral and legal Foreign Policy and National Defense Strategy that protects America. By supporting the invasion and occupation of Iraq the Democrats in Congress are actually encouraging the unlilateralism of the Bush administration and putting the US in danger as well as opening up our government to prosectution for war crimes. The US is now seen as a pariah and rogue state by the majority of the international community. And for good reason - the Iraq invasion was unprecidented in American history, illegal under international law and justified by blatent lies.

7.) The repeal of the Patriot Act which no one in Congress read before they signed. This act blatently violates the Constitution and is a shameful reminder of the cowardice of our elected representatives.

8.) The enforcement of anti-trust laws whose current irrelevence has decimated our media turning it into a governmental lapdog and nothing but a structure for the disemination of false propaganda.

9.) An SEC with teeth.

10.) Privacy Laws with "Opt-In" provisions and not "Opt-Out". Laws against the sureptitious mining of data without explicit permission from the consumer. Laws protecting the privacy of our children. Laws protecting the privacy of medical records, library records, bookstore records, consumer purchases. The outlawing of the individual profiling of consumers and the obtaining, cataloging and use of an individuals DNA for any purpose not PURELY medical.
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seeker4ever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. What he said...
That expresses some of my problem with so called "dems".

I'd feel better about the situation if so many "Dems" weren't afraid someone will be able to tell the difference between them and a republiklan.
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Darranar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #13
35. Several Democrats stand up for that...
May I suggest Dennis Kucinich?
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
36. How about ...
... a law that can replace much of "Campaign Finance" and "Term Limits" as well?

Let's have a law that strictly prohibits anyone in an elected or appointed office from engaging in any kind of fund-raising whatsoever? (Think about it. A "condition of employment".)
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. WOW! Sounds like "Civil Service" to me! Employees of the people!
Lawd knows I know something about that!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, TahitiNut!

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,..,.,,.,.,

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
64. Only 'elected' and 'appointed'.
I would not suggest that we prohibit other government employees (civil service) from raising funds on their own time -- for charity, little league, etc. or even political candidates. I think, however, that an elected or appointed government official shows a clear conflict of interest in any such activities, even (purportedly?) 'charitable'. We (All) The People don't elect and pay 'leaders' to invest their time in raising money narrow interests, even their own.

Selling 'access' (a 'protection' racket) to highest bidders is something they can do when they're not in office -- when they're in office they take an oath supporting 'equal protection' not 'special access'.
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
43. When did you come to believe that Democratics were anti-capitalists?
I think you're confusing the main issue(your #1) which makes all of your other arguments questionable.

My opinion, and I know that doesn't mean much, is that Democratics believe in a regulated Capitalism. Are you of the opinion that Democratics are supposed to be pro-socialism? If so, I think you're missing the mark.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
57. Unbelievable
Where did I say that Democrats were "anti-capitalist"? - you are incredibly confused.

What I said is that the fucking Wall Street Journal is to the political left of the Democratic when it comes to Investment Reform.

Capice?!

Jesus Christ...
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #57
63. Then explain this statement...
"Even the Wall Street Journal (not exactly a bastion of anti-capitalist thought"

We're not supposed to draw the conclusion that you're anti-capitalist? Ok, forgive me for drawing that conclusion, now I'll ask you, are you anti-capitalist? Are you socialist?
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unfrigginreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:15 PM
Response to Original message
19. Anti-Dems are in Freeperville
If they're here, I doubt that they would admit to it.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I say screw the Democratic Party
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 06:19 PM by ThorsteinVeblen
Screw the Greens too.

We want moderate, mainstream reforms that almost every American can agree with.

Too bad the cowards in the Democratic Party are too weak, ineffectual and corrupt to acheive them.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
23. "If?" Are you delusional? Or am I just being presumptious?
Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,...,,..,,.,.,.,.,..,.,
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Why don't you go to post 13
and argue with my points?
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. I said that I didn't want to be argumentative and you said "Screw the
Democratic Party". What else is there to discuss with you? Why are you hanging around a site that clearly supports Democrats like me?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. Read #13
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 06:40 PM by ThorsteinVeblen
I gave you exactly what you asked for like no one else on this thread and you ignored it.

I give you issues, you give me rhetoric.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. I did not
Now are you going to say "did too?"

You got some pretty swift/comprehensive lines there, Thor. Most if not all have been rebutted hundreds of times here in DU. Yet you continue to find yourself confused about it all? I never promised you a rose garden.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,..,.,

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buddhamama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. i'm an issues person
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 06:20 PM by buddhamama
if i discuss issues there may be times when certain DEMs get named and criticized but,i do not paint with a broad brush.

one issue for me is Free Trade.

any one looking honestly at trade deals should clearly see the problems,if they haven't been affected by them yet themselves.

it is a matter of Human Rights,imho. The DEMs are supposed to stand for Human Rights but the Trade deals give corporations more rights thereby cancelling out the Human Rights of citizens.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I'm listening, bm, and so are a good number of Dem professionals.
Again, I am speaking to the anti-dems here. They know who they are but are just not responding right now. Did you take the question personally?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,..,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,
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ThorsteinVeblen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Psychoblues - do you have me on ignore or what?
xxx
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Nope
I don't have anyone on ignore.


Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,...,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
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Hamlette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
24. the better question is...
...are you better off than you were in 2000?

If you can't spell McGovern you don't belong in a voting booth.

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geomon Donating Member (358 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
25. Money in politics
To put in as few words as possible I would have say the thing that get me the most is that some if not most democrats take money from corporations and PACs which I see as a slap in the face of the indavidual voter.

I guess that I am old fashioned when I think that the declaration of independance and the constitution applies to citizens not corportations or groups.

A two party sysytem is bound to produce partisan divisions that lead to tit for tat politics that ultimately errode our indavidual rights.

I will only vote for candidates that do not accept money from corporations or PACs.

The field of candidates that I will vote for is mostly confined to local elections.
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Iverson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
27. "you anti-dems"
That's enough.
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Booberdawg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
39. Sounds like Flame Bait to me
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. PB what we want or at least what I want is
a party that represents everyone and doesnt give in to big business just to be electable I want the union party that my grandaddy was brought up to admire. I dont wanna be a hawk just because it is more supposely electable. Harry S Truman once said "If the voters have a choice between a republican and a democrat who will act like a republican they will choose the republican" and honest to god Harry was right.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. One can only represent to their best ability. Sometimes, nay many times,
those that feel under represented cannot be represented at all for a variety of reasons. Many times it is because they "will not be represented" and they choose not to represent themselves. That, my friend, is a hard lesson and fact to reckon with.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #41
45. why must we befriend big business other than laborers
Thats why we have so called Reagan democrats you know. They believe the GOP's lies that we wanna give their jobs to immigrants and although the GOP fucks them more than a moderate Dem party we were once the champions of labor we still are better than the GOP but we have lost a lot of votes because of that.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:42 PM
Response to Reply #45
47. We know the truth, JK, but we fail to get it out. Why is that and how
do we correct it?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,,.,.,
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. dont appeal to big business PB
Corporations are not the people's friends. Small business is ok but using corporations to get votes is wrong.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. JK, I wish I could agree with you on this issue. Why do so many European
Corporations tend to be so environmentally and labor friendly while American Corps are so evil? I think it's because our laws are so isolationist and end at the shores, our attitudes are too much me, me and me and that our personal wealth tends to trump our laws regardless the truth or the attitudes.

I just dunno anymore, please enlighten me.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,,,
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:00 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. It is all about greed as the old man said he was right
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #54
58. Dig that, JK, my old man, dear old dad, always taught me that but
he never voted in his life. Maybe you can see what a surprise I had for me when I became politically curious?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,.,,.,,,.,,.,.,,.,.,,.,,.,,,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
59. EU corp's have unions protected by law & on BD of Directors - by law
Edited on Mon Jul-28-03 08:32 PM by papau
Amazing how union power turns an evil corp into a useful economic and social structure.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
44. something other then what the Republicans want...which most DEMS
don't seem to mind supporting unfortunately..
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I, like most Democrats, believe that business and people can coexist
peacefully. Most pukes don't have a clue. Many pukes in high/powerful positions constantly gage their bottom line. Keeping their underlings faithful and ignorant is their key to immortality, or would immorality be a better word? Democrats do their level best in the onslaught of the rightward leaning public. I don't advocate revolution but maybe it's time is growing closer? If so, I will fight on the side of the people, the working and the poor, the underpriveleged and the taken advantage of. That's the way I am and that's the way I'll die. I won't support lost causes that are lost even before they begin.

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,..,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,,,.,

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. business aint the problem
Its corporations. Small business is fine in my book but corporations are not the kinda people I want endorsing my candiates.
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:59 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Please read post #52, JK
Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. agree with you PB but how do we stop this
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Psychoblues99 Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #55
56. I don't know. With a corporate funded/controlled media and even our
classrooms can't escape the corporate influence it's going to be a tuff nut to crack. We certainly don't need division amongst the left and the weakest and most needy, politically, among us will not even consider our arguments. What to do?

Psychoblues

Dems Gotta Keep On Truckin'.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,.,.,.,.,..,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,,.,.,
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #49
60. I agree - paid hired managers think they are the company
and are there to guide the political course of the US - via corporate money gifts to campaigns.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
50. the anti-dems
are the ones that spend their time fighting those to left more than they do those on the right.
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CWebster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-29-03 06:27 AM
Response to Reply #50
66. Hand that boy a cigar!
;-)
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foreigncorrespondent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-28-03 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
61. I'm neither anti dem nor an American citizen...
...but going by what I have seen since Bush* stole the election is the dems lost the platform they stood for.

They folded and gave Bush* too many powers and because of that, we have witnessed two unjust wars in the name of war against terrorism, the American economy totally screwed, lack of jobs (I would love for my American born partner who still lives there to gain employment. She has been unemployed since December of 2000.)

If we go back to when King Bill was president then the simple answer would be, the don't ask don't tell policy, and DoMA. They were both real kicks to the L/G community.

The democrats need to rediscover their platform. They need to stop leaning to the right in order to garner votes. I am sure they will find they will garner more votes if they went back to their party values.

My partner was a hardcore dem, but chose to become a hardcore green because she lost faith in the democrats after they began giving too much to Bush*. If the dems want those lost votes to come back, then they need to begin to trully fight Bush* at every turn.

Gay marriage would also be a good vote winner. After all, that is going to be one of the big issues for next years election.
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