My Cousin's Daughter Killed herself - Thank you Ronald Reagan.

[NewHampster]

Not close at all but I'm wondering.

What can haunt the mind of a brilliant 30 year old. A grad of Middlebury and a beautiful dreamer.

What can haunt her so thoroughly that she stopped working 5 years ago and went on disability.

Once engaged to a good man who understood her illness, she broke it off and began her withdrawal from life.

I saw her last Xmas for the first time in years, and though she was withdrawn for long periods, at other times we had some really great chats. Mostly about Howard Dean. She was considering doing something online because she couldn't handle the real world.

My cousin who still fights the same demons, has at 61 years old just found a new and rewarding life in Florida. A good guy who loves her and incredible success in her job transfer from NY. She was hunting a condo for her daughter to move east to and be near mom. The move was planned for next month.

NH doesn't need sympathy, I just want to understand.

I feel that this may be the best thing for my cousin who after the mourning is free of a large burden. I'm also finally learning to keep thoughts like that to myself.

What can Haunt the mind so completely that it makes one stop the blessed medication?

Thank you Ronald Reagan. Yet another victim of your generosity is finally off the welfare rolls.

[DenverDem]

1. Most of the homeless were previously institutionalized before reaganomics

shut down the mental health system, turning them out to the streets.

[Hubert Flottz]

3. Reagan even turned out the homeless Viet Nam Vets we see ...

on the streets too! I hope the big headed bastard burns in Hell SOON!

[liberalhistorian]

36. Yes, and I remember

how a homeless WWII vet froze to death just a few blocks away from one of his second inaugural balls that gazillions of money was spent on. You never heard or saw anyone give a damn about that, now, did you?

Then again, what would you expect from a man who spent WWII making commercials for the troops and never spent one fucking day in a military uniform, despite his claims to have done so and his brainwashing millions of American dopes into thinking that he had.

[NewHampster]

38. Only good thing I can say about Reagan was

that we know now that he really didn't know what he was doing.

The true guilty ones are the entire repug advisory machine that directed him just like it continues to play the puppet shrub.

[mitchum]

52. And that is why I have no pity for Reagan's current dementia.

I take no delight in his Alzheimer's, but I have no pity

[Az]

2. Our society is being made over in the Corporate model

Social Darwinism. No humanity. Pitting everyone against each other. I suffer from depression myself. It can be hard to find a handle to hang on to in this world today. The tradgedy is it doesn't need to be this way.

[Name removed]

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[DenverDem]

5. What system?!?!?!

Reagan dismantled the mental health system in this country. How would the family have the expertise to deal with clinical depression? This is what we pay our bloody taxes for, so that we can pool our funds to take care of the critical needs of those who need it.

This logic is the Publican prevarication of "personal responsibility" trumping our communal ability to solve complex problems with cooperation. It is just a lie to justify not taxing the rich. I am happy to pay taxes if they do some good, but as a redistribution of the wealth to the Power Elite ponzi scam, taxation now is mere theft.

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[DenverDem]

16. It's not the family's fault.

That is a bullshit meme to defer blame from raygun for all the destruction of our society that he perpetrated.

The family can love the person but they cannot prescribe needed medications or provide appropriate counseling.

[reformed_military]

25. It looks like she HAD the meds.

"What can Haunt the mind so completely that it makes one stop the blessed medication?"

It is a tragedy, no question. But, how can you blame Raygun?

[Name removed]

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[pnb]

47. That's pretty much how I see it too

What's with the assumption that even if there were more avenues for help available that they would have prevented this? People committed suicide for the same reasons before Raygun was president as well.

This instance should not even be a political issue. Everyone here who has mentioned how tough clinical depression can be should know that better than anyone.

[Name removed]

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[Deja Q]

55. Just curious

Before Reagan, what was the mental health industry like? I know it's not great now. But neither is the regular health industry, often for the same reasons.

Taxation is not mere theft? My perception is that it's the continual tax cuts to the rich and reckless spending so bad that it makes me look like a miser by comparison and makes the so-called "party of fiscal responsibility" the TRUE thieves. And only the republicans and other supporters are to blame for all that. They want to make excuses to obliterate every social program. They are anti-society, anti-people.

They don't want welfare for people, but are happy to give tens of billions of $ to gigantic corporations who don't need a damn penny of it. And that's worse than theft. That's evil.

All the repukes do is lie, lie, lie. I'm not sure how much better Dems are, but they ARE better. Though in a truly free society I'd likely vote for another party... The CBDTPA being a reminder of how the Dems are justifiably called "Repub-lite". :-(

[NewHampster]

59. I'm not an expert but I know that before Rayguns

Most of the mentally off balance homeless you see were in State Hospitals.

yes, Every State had some form of Mental Hospital that is probably now State Offices or an insurance company. they got a bad rap of course, just watch One flew Over the Cuckoos nest. So because there were some problems the entire system was thrown away.

Now only the wealthy can afford to put away their lost souls for life. In private (de-regulation again) expensive places where there are plenty.

Why couldn't we try to fix it rather than tear it down?

[Bertha Venation]

11. and when those caring family members are rebuffed,

what is the woman to do then?

STOP blaming the family.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

6. Depression is a devastating problem...

And no one seems to give a rats ass about the people who have it. Definately not the rich fuckers that sit up on this leather chairs on Capitol Hill deciding the fate of all 600 million of us. It's not just depression that is getting the short end of the stick either. Every mentally ill person is getting screwed. It's so sad. Back in the eighties they found out they could save millions by starting something called community based rehabilitation. Well, and they did work for a while. Until Ronnie and the other pukes decided that they didn'd need to fund that either, so a bunch of mentally ill people stopped getting the help and medicine they so desperately needed.

Suicide is caused by several different things, Depression is just the beginning. There may have been something else haunting her, and you'll probably never know. It is very sad that what sounds like such a promising young person did this to herself. I have watched a couple of cousins much younger than that commit suicide, and it's not an easy thing. I blamed myself when my cousin Kris, a year younger than me, killed himself when he was a freshman in High School. I kept thinking that if I'd just paid more attention to him, or if I did this or that, but I know it wasn't my fault. I loved that kid. He was the closest thing I've ever had to a little brother. So, I empathize with the thoughts going through your head. They're normal thoughts.

Doesn't it just make you more resolved than ever to get rid of those assholes who care more about lining their pockets than about human life?
Duckie

[NewHampster]

8. Yes Duckie I am pissed and more resolved

I'm also sick of the shrub type intelligence of the bostonteapartys of the world who see it all in black and white, believe all they're told and never ever look deeper than the surface. I'll avoid the flames and leave it at this.

Sorry about your cousin, another of Ronnie's victims.

[Name removed]

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[DenverDem]

19. "Personal Responsibility" buzz phrase rears its head.

Straight from the Publican talking points memo.

[NewHampster]

20. DenverDem - I think the one you responded (BTP) to goes on ignore

I'd send a PM but why not be public with my thoughts that someone who joined on 4/9 and flames every thread is most probably a visitor from beyond.

Thanks DenverDem for fighting the good fight.

[DenverDem]

22. My ignore list is getting pretty voluminous.

I truly am sorry for your family's grief. I will say a prayer for healing for all of you.

Hang in there.

[NewHampster]

23. LOL

Thanks

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[liberalhistorian]

39. Wow, such shining examples of

human compassion and caring, and right here on this board, ain't we lucky?

As one who's been on anti-depressants for ten years and likely will be for life, and who considers them to be nothing short of a lifesaver, I know more than a lot of others what this woman went through and why she did what she did.

I've also had it up to my skull with those who have no clue what it is like to suffer from a mental illness yapping about "personal responsiblity" and "it's all in the mind, anyway, just think happy thoughts and everything will be fine".

Would you deny a diabetic her medicine, or a cancer patient her treatment, etc.? Of course not. So why do we not recognize that mental illnesses are PHYSICAL illnesses that respond to MEDICAL treatments, and that people suffer when they cannot get those treatments? The times I was out of work and unable to afford my prescriptions were nothing short of pure hell. And I resent like hell those repuke idiots, and even some liberals, who go on and on and on about something they don't know a FUCKING thing about!

[nuxvomica]

7. Suicide is not just about depression

The suicidal person isn't just depressed, he is disconnected from normal support systems like family and friends, even if living in close proximity with them. It is almost an act of rebellion. It's very hard to break through the walls this disease creates. I understand it's a disease and needs treatment but I will always feel in my heart that I could've done something to stop my friend many years ago. The fact is, without the right treatment, you can't. This is not a very satisfying answer but I hope it helps.

[noonwitch]

9. The deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill is beyond just Reagan

It was also a trend in treatment, trying to get people out of the hospitals and back into the world. They were trying to reform mental health in this country because of so many past abuses (watch "Frances", or read "The Autobiography of Malcolm X" and see what happened to his mother). There were a lot of people in the hospitals that didn't need to be. Unfortunately, they decided to let out a whole bunch that still needed constant monitoring.

It's more than just Reagan-most states were trying to cut down on mental health costs at the time, and most mental health programs were state-level programs. The problem is that privatizing basically cut out the uninsured and limited hospital stays to what the insurance companies would cover. Also, a lot of the former patients are now inmates in the corrections system, which is more expensive. Not to mention the pain that they have suffered and may have inflicted on others that could have been avoided if they had been hospitalized all along.

[Name removed]

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[DenverDem]

14. The mental health system could have been reformed without

dismantling it completely.

The "trend in treatment" was a wrong wing conspiracy to destroy the system and take it off the tax dole to be able to justify tax cuts for the rich. Sure, there were absurd abuses in the dark ages of psychological science, but throwing those who need treatment out on the street was hardly a step up ethically.

[Name removed]

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[noonwitch]

44. I agree about throwing people out, but I don't blame Reagan for all of it

There really was a trend that was about humanitarian reasons for deinstitutionalization of patients, apart from money. It was thought that medication could prevent the need for hospitalization, and in many cases, it did. Too many people fell through the cracks, however.

When I first started my job, Blanchard (D) was governor of Michigan. He closed a few of the hospitals, and tried to streamline programs to save money. When Engler came in, he totally dismantled all but two or three state hospitals, one of which is actually a corrections facility, and one of which is a children's facility. The first one he closed was the Lafayette Clinic in Detroit, a great place that treated it's patients with respect and dignity. They also made no arrangements for on-going care-they just dumped the patients out on their families or the streets, if no family was available. Adult foster care is a joke.

[havocmom]

17. Serious, debilitating, long term depression is probably not something

anyone who hasn't dealt with a life threatening depression can fully understand. Not saying that people are lacking in anything or that they don't try hard enough to understand. There just isn't any way to describe what it feels like to be constantly in that very dark place. It is a state which I firmly believe can only be experienced and I hope you good folks never have that experience.

Now, to address this particular tragedy, I would like to suggest that perhaps the daughter wanted out long ago but didn't want to leave her mom alone. Now that mom is 'taken care of' by way of having good changes happen for her, the sense of obligation to stick around may have evaporated.

Just a theory, but you might consider it.

Try to find peace in accepting what you cannot fully understand. Easier said than done, I know. But do try.

[liberalhistorian]

41. As someone who has been to that

"dark place" and who lives in constant fear of returning to it even though I have medicine (sometimes it just isn't enough) I know exactly what you mean, and it's just impossible to describe to those who haven't experienced it themselves. It's so much more than just "being blue or down in the dumps." You just have to experience it yourself to really know.

[NightTrain]

18. I may end up going off my anti-depressants, too.

But that's because when my workplace shuts its doors in a few weeks, I'll lose my health insurance as well.

I once had to go three days without one of those pills and got physically ill. I don't look forward to the withdrawal period if being out of work forces me to go off of them for good!

Anyway NH, I'm sorry to go off about my own problems when such a tragedy has befallen your family. My heart does go out to you all at this difficult time.

[NewHampster]

21. Get all the paperwork and contacts you need now

so you know for sure who to contact and continue your coverage under the company plan. i know you may not be able to afford it but the law protects you for a time and part of your future unemployment can cover it.

[GoddessOfGuinness]

56. Call your local mental health department

and explain your situation. They should be able to help you somehow...

:hug:

[Name removed]

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[NewHampster]

35. Thank you Good DUers

In addition to helping me understand my cousin better, we managed to catch two trolls in one thread.

You are wonderful people and I love this refuge that I have. I wish my young cousin had found such a place.

now off to earn a living I go.



:thumbsup:

[liberalhistorian]

42. Threads like these do, indeed,

seem to bring the trolls out like nothing else. They just can't handle any diminishing of the halo of St. Ronny of Raygun, and they can't ever pass up the chance to trash someone who's going through a tragedy like this.

[DenverDem]

45. It's a cultural war on this board now.

The place is full of covert operatives.

Watch for those who start controversial threads meant to discredit the forum. They work together to get things stirred up and extreme to provide ammunition for wrong wingers who lurk to gather postings to take back to their forum and the media.

[reformed_military]

46. WOW...

What did I miss?

[AlienGirl]

50. The usual: everyone hates depressives

Sometimes I think most people would rather see us inconvenient depressed people just die.

Tucker

[Name removed]

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[DenverDem]

43. So, the lack of a mental health system in this country

that was the direct result of raygunz voodoo economic dismantling of the social services system of the public sector to justify cutting the taxes to the rich has is the responsibility of those who are in need of social services??

Let's also blame the women who are raped for their victimization, too, while we are at it.

[mvd]

40. I am very sorry

There is absolutely no compassion in these new-breed conservatives.

Not only what you've mentioned, but I've seen more aggressive behavior from banks, credit card companies, and collectors since Bush came into office. Also, it seems like energy companies and more think they can charge through the roof. If an opportunity would come up, I'll tell them that their boy Bush will be out come November.

[Plaid Adder]

48. Very sorry to hear about your cousin's daughter.

I don't think we can ever really know why this happens. I have been through some bad times but it's never made me think about ending it. For some people, though, that's something they struggle with daily, and who knows what makes the difference. I hope she's at peace now.

All the best,

The Plaid Adder

[NewHampster]

49. Thanks PA

"I hope she's at peace now"

One half of my agnatheist self hopes you're right.

[Mrs. Venation]

51. Sometimes It's Impossible To Take Care of Oneself

I think it's that demon that makes depressed people stop taking medication. I have been that depressed, NH, and if Bertha hadn't been there to take care of me, Lord only knows . . .

People can be so cruel to those of us who suffer from mental illness. I think many people think of it as a weakness, not an illness, and they think we can just snap out of it. That's a load of hooey, but their minds are made up, and God forbid they'd ever have to spend time actually thinking about things, or learning the facts.

I am so sorry for your family's loss. Having lost loved ones to suicide, I know the anguish.

Mrs. Venation

[mitchum]

53. NH, I am so sorry for your family's loss

May she be at peace

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

54. No answers to your questions but I wanted to express my condolences

both on your loss and whatever insults to injury were on the numerous deleted posts in this thread.

[NewHampster]

57. thanks NSMAM

those deleted posts you see actually resulted in at least one freeper being shown the door.

makes me feel it was worth the Ronny is god type posts we had to read.

all is good

[GoddessOfGuinness]

58. There's so much that doctors don't know

about mental illness. It makes me sick to my stomach to think that billions of dollars are being wasted on destroying people's lives when the money could be spent on research to understand these illnesses and how to prescribe medicine with a minimum of guesswork.

Two colleagues of mine were diagnosed manic depressive, and eventually self-medicated themselves to death with cocaine.

I'm so sorry for your loss. I'll keep your cousin in my thoughts and prayers... :hug: