Survivor is pushing the Feminist movement back decades....

[KensPen]

I haven't watched all the survivor series,
but my impression is that women have won roughly half the time.....

keys to women's victories,


implants don't hurt,
keep your mouth shut,
don't have a strong opinion,
flirt a lot,
attach yourself to a strong alpha male who will pave the path for you.


women are sex objects......

I just threw that in there for shits and giggles.

[iamjoy]

1. HMMM....

I must wonder if you have a point. I have watched every season of Survivor.

Out of 8 seasons, 5 of the winners have been women. For the most part, these women have adopted a "fly under the radar" strategy.

Viewers can rate the popularity of the contestants (or how much they like/dislike) on a scale of 1 - 10. The men generally seem to do a lot better than the woman. Tracking the polls, it seems like you can see when a woman asserts herself, her numbers ususally take a dip, but the same is not true for men.

[lazarus]

2. well, actually

Women have won 5 out of 8, so just over half the time.

Only two of the winners have had implants (Tina, Season 2, and Amber, Season 8).

Tina had strong opinions and didn't flirt at all, but she did ally with a stronger male to win challenges.

Vecepia (Season 4) had no implants, no alpha male, plenty of opinions, no flirting (was quite religious, actually). That marked the one time the Final Three was all one sex. None of the women had implants or used alpha males, really.

Jenna (Season 6) tied with an alpha male for most challenge wins in her season, and won her way to the finals. She also had very strong opinions and didn't keep her mouth shut.

Sandra (Season 7) is a mother in her thirties, no implants, no glamour, no flirting, had plenty of strong opinions, never kept her mouth shut, and made it the last three episodes without a strong alpha male paving the path for her.

And, yes, I have watched all the Survivor series. :D The women who win, for the most part, are quite independent. Tina and Amber are the only two who really flew under the radar.

[KensPen]

9. OH COME ON

with Jenna,
she was crying to go home days before the thing was over,
she was listless and practically catonic,

and the reward challenges she won at the end were wierd,
there were a couple popularity type contests.

and sandra was the same way....

she kept under radar,
buddied up to Ruppert, and lucked her way to winning.

[lazarus]

19. Sandra under the radar?

Did we watch the same season? She had a perfectly valid strategy, and played it quite well: every TC, she was willing to sell her vote, so long as she wasn't the one being voted off. She wasn't shy about mouthing off at all, either. Don't you remember her constant fights with John?

As for Jenna Morasca, yeah, she was on the verge of quitting. She turned it around quick, though.

And she didn't win a single reward challenge. She won 4 immunity challenges, including the final two. One was a blindfolded maze, the other was a fairly brutal endurance challenge. Another was a shooting-type game.

Her 4 immunity challenge wins tied Kelly Wigglesworth for second, with Colby's 5 being the record.

She also only won one of the "popularity" type contests. Those, btw, are quite handy at revealing alliances; the winner is generally booted soon thereafter.

And, despite her reputation, which alpha male did she use to get to the Final Two? Wouldn't that be required for the thesis of anti-feminism?

[MallRat]

13. Tina & Amber... IMPLANTS?

Citation, please.

:shrug:

[lazarus]

18. My own two eyes

Tina's are obvious; one doesn't lose that much weight and retain that shape.

Amber's obviously had implants, just look at her in Australia and now.

Now:


Australia:

[lovedems]

3. I think reality television sucks. It promotes back stabbing

lying, destruction of friendships and the notion that the "ends justify the means."

I have been guilty of watching, I admit it but there is something inherently wrong with reality tv.

[lazarus]

4. nothing wrong with it at all

So long as you realise that it's just a game. Too many people forget that, both participants and viewers.

[lovedems]

6. Yeah, well there lies the problem.

Alot of people seem to forget.

[Misunderestimator]

5. I lame TV show pushing the women's movement back decades?

Ah, come on. You can point to hundreds of other shows that do the same. There will ALWAYS be women who cling to someone else's coattails to get ahead... just as there will ALWAYS be MEN who cling to someone else's coattails to get ahead... and often that someone is a woman.

On edit... I think that "Friends" has done more incidious damage to the public's perception of women than Survivor. I only watched a few episodes the first couple of seasons but it was my impression that it protrayed women as far weaker than men, as evidence by their professions in the show. At the time I last saw it, the 3 men had professional careers, one an IT manager, the other an anthropologist and the last an actor (albeit largely out of work). The women were waitresses. And I remember one particularly distasteful episode with one of them having to dress up seductively and dance on tables. Nothing wrong with waitressing but there's a clear difference between the white-collar guys' jobs and the women's.

And, of course, in the end.... MARRIAGE is just the most important thing to a woman, don't you know. </sarcasm>

[VelmaD]

10. Uh...not waitresses...

Monica was a chef...the head chef at her own restaurant for a significant portion of the show's run.

Phoebe did all sorts of weird jobs but was mostly a masseuse and musician.

And while Rachel started out waitressing (her first job ever in her life), she found a job in the fashion industry and worked her way up into management.

Not a huge Friends fan and I don't disagree with your basic point about tv being anti-feminist...but I'd prefer that you made an accurate argument. :)

[Misunderestimator]

11. Oh yeah, thanks for refreshing my memory...

That's what even irritated me more... Monica was a chef, and she had to dress up and dance on the tables. The others were waitresses in the few episodes I watched. After that, I just didn't have the stomach to watch any more.

[VelmaD]

12. I don't remember...

Monica having to dress up and dance on a table and I don't remember Phoebe ever being a waitress...just a bad singer and a masseuse. :shrug:

[Misunderestimator]

14. Hmm... well it must have been something else

like her catering business before that.... anyway, I didn't watch it after that episode, and I do remember her dressing up in a costume. I never saw the show again, so I didn't know she got a chef job. Anyhoo... just my perception of the first few seasons was enough for me. Apologies if I somehow offended.

[VelmaD]

15. No offense...

mostly just poking my brain trying to remember that particular ep and drawing a blank.

[Mike Daniels]

16. Monica lost her job and took a job in a 50's style diner temporarily

which was where she was dancing on the counter. However, all of the staff of that diner were also on the counter at the same time for the most part.

Regards to Rachel, that she managed to get the job much less keep it and rise up in the ranks was totally due to the fact that it was a sitcom.

She starts off interviewing for the job by kissing the interviewer and then basically threatens him with sexual harrassment when she's improbably called back in for a second interview.

Then she proceeds to hire an unqualified person for an assistant strictly on the basis of looks and then proceeds to strike up a relationship with her employee and lies about it when caught after turning in a "joke" job evaluation.

Sorry, but only in a sitcom would someone who conducted herself as Rachel did end up in a management position much less employed by a major fashion designer.

[MaineDem]

7. Amber is the poster child for co-dependency

She didn't appear to make one decision on her own - including who should get the car.

Maybe co-dependent is the wrong term but she doesn't strike me as a strong female role model. But then again, she's just a kid.

On edit...let me emphasize that none of these people are role models. Strike that term from the sentence above. She doesn't strike me as a strong female at all! But she may grow into it.

[Shananigans]

8. I look at it a bit differently...

When it comes to these things. I am a very independant woman, but at the same time, I am not against using my "womanly charms" to help me get what I want. My second job, as a waitress puts me in many interesting situations... But when I have a group of drunk Frat boys at one of my tables you are damn straight I am going to wiggle my tush a little more, throw in a few more giggles and of course, a couple winks. And suddenly my tip doubles.

Now does this take a step back for women? I think not! Instead I feel sorry for the men who are so stupid to fall for this. In all seriousness, if a group of guys is going to be stupid enough to double my tip just because I flirt with them a little more, then who cares. They may THINK they are the ones playing me, but in reality I am the one playing them.

It's all about knowing which cards you carry and playing them when you need to. I have a hard time looking at this as degrading to women...

Just my two cents!

[Angelus]

17. You've got to be kidding me....

:eyes:

[NightTrain]

20. Never seen the show, don't want to.

In fact, I refuse to watch any so-called "reality TV." I value my brain cells too much!

[lazarus]

21. LOL

Well, at least you've managed to keep an open mind about it, and have given reality tv a fair shake.