This one is for the queers

[foreigncorrespondent]

I thought because I asked the heterosexual community amongst us yesterday when did they know they were het, I thought today I would ask the queer community when did you know you were queer?

Of course I have reasoning behind all this madness. ;)

Yesterday I stumbled across this thread which kinda peeved me a little.

Mostly because the author of the thread would like for me to believe that I am now a lesbian because I was abused as a child by someone of the same sex. The author has also refused to answer any of the quetions I have put forth to him which gives me the impression it was nothing more than flame bait.

Now I know for fact that the abuse I suffered as a child has nothing to do with who I am sleeping with today.

I always knew I liked women more so than men. All through a 15 year relationship with a man I knew deep down that this isn't how I was born to live my life. Now I am in a very committed and loving relationship with a woman who gives me nothing but unconditional love.

I have been on the other side of the fence. I know what it is like, and I know for me, sex with him or any male was wrong. Why? Because I was going against the person GOD created me to be.

So all my queer family, when did you first know you were queer?

[Andy_Stephenson]

1. Since I can remember

forever...


really though 5 or 6 I knew I was gay.

[dfong63]

2. why do you assume that God is done "creating" you?

I have been on the other side of the fence. I know what it is like, and I know for me, sex with him or any male was wrong. Why? Because I was going against the person GOD created me to be.

but why do you assume that God is no longer in the process of creating you?

Now I know for fact that the abuse I suffered as a child has nothing to do with who I am sleeping with today.

how can anyone know "for a fact", with complete certainty, that such a traumatic event did not affect their subconscious desires and emotional needs?

[foreigncorrespondent]

6. Answers to your questions...

but why do you assume that God is no longer in the process of creating you?

Life is a learning experience so I will never stop growing there. But I am talking about when I was created, conceived if you like. What shaped my body, and my brain, and the way I would be in life. That has all stopped. I was born to be queer, and queer is how I will live my life.

how can anyone know "for a fact", with complete certainty, that such a traumatic event did not affect their subconscious desires and emotional needs?

Because I had crushes on women prior to the abuse even begining. The abuse had nothing what so ever to do with my being a lesbian.

[Skittles]

3. I remember a lesbian comic saying

if a bad sexual experience with a man turned women gay, ALL WOMEN WOULD BE LESBIANS. :D

[foreigncorrespondent]

7. ROFLMAO

So very true!

[Sapphocrat]

12. Which reminds me, Skittles...

...of another old saying:

If homosexual men are gay, lesbians must be ecstatic.

:D

[LeftCoast]

4. Looking back on it...I knew from the beginning

'Course I fought it kicking and screaming all the way through HS.

BTW, I thought that thread you're peeved about said exactly the opposite of what you thought. :shrug:

LeftCoast

[OrdinaryTa]

13. Kicking and Screaming

I thought that thread you're peeved about said exactly the opposite of what you thought

Yes, you're right. She got it totally wrong. The whole area is difficult for a lot of people, so they go with whatever they understand. And without realizing it, they paint themselves into a corner.

The question was: Why is gay sex with minors punished much more severely than hetero sex with minors? It's a question. Other questions follow, depending on whatever answer you prefer. But here's a caveat: gay sex with minors continues to occur whether or not informed people choose to address the issue.

[Sapphocrat]

14. Doesn't your question belong...

...in the other thread?

I would hate to see such a friendly, interesting thread as this (the question: When did you know you were gay?) devolve into something so totally off-topic.

[OrdinaryTa]

17. Because of the Link

I would have ignored this thread except for the specific link. She apparently misunderstood what I said.

[Rowdyboy]

5. I remember staring at older guys in the changing room....

of the public swimming pool at 5 or 6. Touching other little boys my age followed about the age of 8.

First sexual experience at 19. However, I never openly admitted to myself that I was ONLY interested in guys until I was 25 (had never sucessfully had sex with a woman despite valiant efforts).

edited for spelling

[Duncan Grant]

8. I was very young...

maybe as early as 5 or 6 but I was never sexually exploited by adults. (Wow, I haven't thought about this for a long, long time.)

I had an inexplicable 'attraction' to the teenage boy next door. All the neighborhood kids adored him -- he happened to be one of those great teenagers who liked kids. He was so cool.

:kick:

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

9. When I wanted to marry my third grade teacher Mrs Martin

She was HOT. She looked just like Elizabeth Montgomery (whom I also wanted to marry) I did the whole straight thing too..hell. I was even on the drill team...who knew??? Now I do the drilling :evilgrin:

[Sapphocrat]

11. Oh, God...

Thursday nights, 8:00 p.m. ...

"Stay tuned for Bewitched! Next! In cull-ah!"

That NorEaster accent was music to my ears.

You have EXCELLENT taste, NSMA.

P.S. I still watch my "Legend of Lizzie Borden" tape just to watch her get undr-- Well, never mind. :D

[Rowdyboy]

16. Okay, I'm a gay guy, but...

I had a serious thing for Elizabeth Montgomery during Bewitched (I was born in 1954). Also had serious hots for Inger Stevens (cool, blonde, Scandinavian beauty) from the tv series The Farmer's Daughter, Grace Kelly, and Ingrid Bergman. Obviously, I found aloof, blonde nordic women interesting at 12, even though I don't think I was sexually attracted.

My favorite Montgomery piece is the miniseries The Awakening Land (1978). She plays a pioneer girl from the age of 17 (circa 1800)through about age 70 and does so believably.

God, I loved Samantha...

[Sapphocrat]

19. I have two words for you, Rowdyboy...

Tippi Hedren. ;)

[Sapphocrat]

10. Rumor has it...

...that I made a pass at the nurse in the delivery room.

When the Beatles arrived in the U.S., I decided I was going to grow up to be a Beatle, because of how nuts teenage girls went at the sight of them. (I was three.)

In kindgerarten, when the little boys would chase the little girls around and try to kiss them, so would I.

By the way, for the record: I am SO tired of the crap about women "becoming" lesbians because they 1) were abused, 2) had a bad experience with men, and/or 3) never had a good mother and/or father figure.

I was never abused by anyone (male or female), my childhood was so sheltered, peaceful, and idyllic, my family would make The Brady Bunch look like the Manson Family, I adored both my parents, both my sisters turned out to be the straightest, most feminine girly-girls you've ever seen, and the only "bad" experiences I've ever had with men are those in which some moron has insisted that I'm a lesbian because I must have had a bad experience with men.

In addition, I'm neither afraid of nor repulsed by men. I tried the "other side of the fence" too (because I thought I was supposed to). Not a single experience I ever had with a man was either traumatic or even "bad" -- it was all just boring, un-arousing, interesting only as an academic experiment, completely foreign to my God-given nature, and served only to confirm that I was queer as a three-dollar bill.

And happily so. :)

P.S. My only regret is that I ever had any sexual experience with men at all, because it was so... wrong. If that sounds strange, it's the exact same feeling I've heard described by numerous heteros who are ashamed they ever experimented with a same-sex experience.

And that's my double standard: I don't think there's anything shameful about sleeping with a MOTSS, even if you're straight. But I feel... eh... "unclean," for lack of a better word, for having slept with a MOTOS (even tho' that was more than 20 years ago) because I am, and always have been, gay.

Maybe that little confession might help a few straight folks understand better that we're just as gay as they are straight. There's no changing one's basic nature, no matter which side of the fence you're on.

'Scuse me now -- I see I have a pileup in my PM inbox!

[ronnykmarshall]

26. Same here

<<I decided I was going to grow up to be a Beatle>>

But I wanted to be a Supreme!

[OrdinaryTa]

15. Sex With a Minor

the author of the thread would like for me to believe that I am now a lesbian because I was abused as a child by someone of the same sex

I said nothing of the sort. I asked why gay sex with minors is punished much more severely than hetero sex with minors. You didn't answer that question; instead you went off on an unrelated tangent about the sexual orientation of child molesters. That answer had nothing to do with my original question. Why was baseball player Luis Polonia allowed to continue his big-money career despite having sex with a 15 year old girl, when he would certainly have been washed up and put in prison if he'd had sex with a 15 year old boy?

[Sapphocrat]

18. Boy, do you have a short memory...

You didn't answer that question; instead you went off on an unrelated tangent about the sexual orientation of child molesters. That answer had nothing to do with my original question.

"Unrelated tangent," my foot. You specifically asked for supporting evidence re the sexual orientation of child molesters:

fc:

Statistics show us that the manjority of adult males having sex with adolescent males are straight

You:

This would be a really interesting fact if you could nail it down with a reference. I do question what makes people gay or straight if it's not the gender of the people that they have sex with. If a male has sex with other males, doesn't that make him gay?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=225165#225929

If you didn't want to pursue that "tangent," you shouldn't have asked for a follow-up.

And that is enough of this for tonight. I had hoped this thread wasn't going to get hijacked, but trying to avert a crash is obviously a waste of my time.

[OrdinaryTa]

21. Hijacking a Thread

The appropriate place to respond to another thread is in that thread. I'll look for your response there.

[dsc]

20. When I was around 5

I remember this boy next door to my grandparents house. Even though we got in fights constantly (and I would get my ass kicked) I still returned. He just was so cute. Later in like first grade I would watch my male friends play sports and they looked so nice. I too, fought kicking and screaming, but had to eventually give in and admit the truth. I was very into guys, and after trying it once with utterly disasterous results, not at all into women.

[thom1102]

22. Like others here, when I look back I was always gay

My cousin and I used to fool around (mostly just touching) as early as I can remember. I fooled around with guys at scout camp (even slept with a counselor who was 21, when I was 14, and let me tell you: it wasn't traumatic at all :evilgrin: ), lusted after the boys on the soccer team, and the rest of the guys in the choir, but I fought it all the way and figured it was just a phase, and i would find a nice girl, settle down and get married some day. I even had a fiance, and I even got her pregnant, but she lost the baby and our relationship deteriorated rapidly after that (for the best).

[Plaid Adder]

23. There is no grand unified theory of what 'causes' gayness.

I thought I had it worked out once. I was sitting around with a bunch of other lesbians in college in the dining hall and somehow we got onto breastfeeding vs. bottle-feeding. We discovered that every last one of us had been bottle fed. There was a moment where we were all, "That's it! That's the answer!" And then I remembered that my younger sister, who is just as straight as she could possibly be, was also bottle fed. So was my partner's straight younger sister. So that was the end of that.

For the record, foreigncorrespondent, I was never abused by anyone as a child and neither was my partner. I know some other lesbians who were abused as children and do make a connection, but see it as a positive rather than a negative--i.e., this being abused as a child thing could have ruined my life, but instead it has made me a lesbian, and what a wonderful thing to have come out of something so sucky, it really gives one hope that good can come from evil.

As for when I knew I was gay, well, falling in love with my partner was my first clue.

C ya,

The Plaid Adder

[Sapphocrat]

28. Now there's the ultimate positive outlook...

I know some other lesbians who were abused as children and do make a connection, but see it as a positive rather than a negative--i.e., this being abused as a child thing could have ruined my life, but instead it has made me a lesbian, and what a wonderful thing to have come out of something so sucky, it really gives one hope that good can come from evil.

Not that I think there is a connection, but if a person does believe in such a connection, then that's a most interesting way to look at it.

Then again, it's about the healthiest way of thinking in the world: That every experience goes into shaping one's personality as it stands today.

I guess I'd be willing to concede that while abuse isn't a determining factor of sexual orientation, perhaps it can serve as a catalyst.

[thom1102]

24. I heard an interesting story on the radio yesterday.

A geneticist said that a woman rejects the maleness in her inutero child, and the more sons that she has, the more effective she becomes. So the more boys a woman has, the more likely the youngest is to be gay. He said this is only one aspect, and the determining factor (hell, I break that mold: oldest of four boys, and the only gay one... my partner is the middle of three boys, and the first two are gay, and the youngest is straight), but I thought the piece was interesting.

[Sapphocrat]

30. Interesting, all right

Of course, my first thought is: So what's the theory for lesbianism? :)

Uh-oh, thom, you just gave me the idea for my first-ever poll!

[ronnykmarshall]

25. As long as I can remember.

Even in grammar school I was always looking at boys. I was attracked to girls as well, but if a cute boy walked by .... I'd practically run into a wall.

[soleft]

27. For me, there were multiple levels of knowing

In hindsight - I knew before I even had a name what to call it.

But I always had a way to rationalize it away.

Tom boy
Hero worship
bisexuality (I believe some people are bisexual - I'm just not)

I didn't actually say fuck all that shit, I'm gay dammit, until I was around 38 years old.

For many reasons I'm glad I took the route that I did. I have a kid, I have a great girlfriend (even if she wants to sell porn on the internet), and I have compassion and understanding when I see other people who are deluding themselves from what ever truth they're running from.

[Malikshah]

29. From when I was a toddler

Didn't know exactly--not sexual feelings etc. But knew I was different from when I was a kid.

When did I accept it? 32

[donco6]

31. I knew there was a name for it when I was 11 . . .

and I snuck a copy of "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex*" off of the library shelf.

But I have always been more attracted to men than women. Even in kindergarten I distinctly remember being infatuated with my school principal. Not sexually, but just emotionally.

And I have a great relationship with my dad.

[foreigncorrespondent]

32. Like you...

...I knew the name for it in my teens. But when I was kid, while I didn't know the name for it, or what was happening to me, I still knew I liked women better than men.

[Beam Me Up]

33. Goes way back

I remember finding other boys attractive when I was as young as 5 or 6.

I have no memory of being sexually abused as a child. It is conceivable but, as I say, I have no memory of it. In any case I am suspicious of those who want to find a 'cause' for homosexuality. Anyone know what causes heterosexuality? Lets face it, human sexuality is NOT NATURAL -- period!! If, that is, by 'natural' what one means is "for procreational purposes only".

I do recall one incident that I know affected my sexual development negatively -- and that was being caught masturbating with another boy by my mother when I was about 6 years old. She did not punish me physically but she did shame me and frightened me by threatening to expose me to my father if she caught me 'doing that again.'

My mother had no idea what incredible harm she was doing not only to me but to the fabric of the whole family. This is one example of many instances where I learned my parents and family could not be trusted with 'the truth'. I learned to lie -- and to separate myself from them -- and the emotional consequences of that for all of us was traumatic. (Both my parents are deceased now.)

If I could have life my way, people wouldn't make such a big deal over who you have sex with or choose for a life partner. What business is it of theirs, anyway?

[AquariDem]

34. Well, I've known I was "something" for quite a while

I'd always enjoyed listening to the lesbian women's music my mom had in our apartment, but that doesn't really mean much. I had a huge crush on my P.E. teacher when I was twelve/thirteen, and loved seeing her pink Schwinn bike tied to a post outside when I'd walk onto campus (this would mean she was there that day, of course). I've sort of been into both guys and girls, but during high school I completely hid away the "girl" part, kind of unconsciously. Now that I'm in college I've decided that I'm probably bi, but mostly lesbian. Well, that's my story.