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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 11:38 AM
Original message
Cat Thread: How do I eliminate strays?
I'm not an anti-cat person...heck, up until two months ago, I had one myself (RIP Ziggy, 1996-2003). My problem is that we've developed a stray problem in my neighborhood lately with five or six mean old scarred alleycats moving into the area. They get along fairly well so I don't have to listen to catfights very often, but these things have adopted MY backyard as their hangout (my yard, with its many short trees, lots of patio furniture, and large covered area, is very cat friendly). Why is this a problem? Because they all have HORRIBLE flea problems, and they're keeping my yard infested to the point where my own kids can't play out there without getting bitten. I already thought of trying to trap, bathe, and collar them, but they didn't go anywhere NEAR the cages. We've had animal control out a few times, but the cats are EXTREMELY wary of people and the AC officers haven't been able to get anywhere near them.

So I'm looking for suggestions from DU'ers, especially cat lovers, about how to humanely deal with this problem. My neighbors are having the same problems and are getting to their wits end (one of them actually admitted to putting poisoned food out, but put it away after I threatened to turn her in for cruelty...another one regularly shoots them with a low-powered BB gun if he sees them in his yard) so I'd like to do something to help these animals before someone kills them.

Ideas? Suggestions? Should I get a dog? How can I chase them off without hurting them?
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
1. Call your humane society about humane traps....
And take them to the pound when you catch them.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. You have to make sure that no one is feeding them
Edited on Tue Aug-26-03 11:50 AM by SoCalDem
when you sent the traps.. if they are hungry and the "bait" is a smelly fishy catfood, they will enter the trap.. cover the trap, except for the entrance...

The problem is AFTER you catch them.. If there is a no kill shelter, make sure they can take them in.. a really feral cat will not let you "put a collar on it or bathe it.. "

Most pounds euthanize ferals immediately.. That kept us from catching our "outdoorsies" for a long time.. I kept trying to "win them over" so that someone would take them in.. What happened eventually was horrible.. Someone must have left something toxic out and after a particularly huge storm, they must have walked through something that made them all sick, and one by one we had to take them to the vet to be put down.. (only when they were near death , would they let us get near enough ..)

We were left with two.. and we did manage to trap the remaining female and get her spayed..AFTER TWO LITTERS, that I bottlefed and either adopted myself, or found homes for..

It's a tough thing either way.. Catch them, turn them in and have them killed, or let them be and have MORE to worry about and in the end they will still lead sad short lives..:(

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1monster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Some areas have a plan to neuter and spay strays, give them their shots
and release them back where they came from. Feral cats do not last too long... they get sick, become weak, and are finished off by the elements or by other animals.

If they cannot reproduce, the problem will disappear completely in a year or so.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. One big problem with that
The reason the cats are in our neighborhood, and the reason that traps don't work, is that we have a small shopping center over our back fences with several restaurants inside. These restaurants are constantly throwing food in their dumpsters, which the cats raid for dinner. Why eat tuna in my cage when they can have calamari and lobster on the other side of the fence?

Oh, and I'm a scuba diver and so own a pair of shark gloves. Scratch proof, bite proof, and bath proof. I'd have to wear my leather welding apron as well, but I'm sure I could bathe them if I could catch them (THAT part doesn't seem likely to happen though).

I really don't want to send these cats to their deaths, but I'm seeing fewer and fewer options as time goes on. I can deal with spray on my car tires, I can deal with their "gifts" in my yard (hey, it's chemical free fertilizer), and I can deal with the occasional catfight in the yard, but I can't deal with a flea problem so bad that my yards are becoming unuseable. What's worse, I'd like to get another cat of my own, but I'm sure it would get attacked the first time it got outside. Even my wife, an ardent cat lover, has suggested poison (I WILL NOT do that).
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Cat poop isn't fertilizer. Only poop from herbivores is truly beneficial
to landscaping.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Well, darn
You just shot down one of the few good reasons Ihad to keep them around
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Gato Moteado Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. not only is cat crap not beneficial but it also....
...can carry bacteria and parasites (like toxoplasmosis) that can be transmitted to humans. toxoplasmosis is bad. you definitely don't want cats crapping in your yard.

trap 'em and bring them to the pound. talk to your neighbors and ask them not to feed strays. also, if you have a neighborhood association, lobby them to enforce local leash laws for cats in your neighborhood. pet cats should be kept indoors because they are destructive to neighboring properties and they kill native wildlife.
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Then you have to call the health department on the restaurants
to ensure they keep their dumpsters closed. You'll get much faster responses, too: restaurants pay fines; feral cats hardly ever do.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Oh, I hadn't thought of that!
My neighbors and I have complained to the restaurants numerous times, but the managers claim that the busboys are "too busy" to continually have to open and close the dumpsters. I didn't even think of calling the health department. Thanks!
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hedda_foil Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. As to the restaurant problem, call the health department and city hall
and report them there (both places). Their open garbage can also attract wild animals, which means the possibility (remote but worth mentioning) of rabies in the community. You need to take care of the cats and the restaurant separately.
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Demobrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
3. If you see them can you squirt them with your hose?
They hate that.
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Fixated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. .....
The best is not to scare them away, because for that to work you have to so it almost every time they come to your house. Obviously, you're not always there to see them.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Done that repeatedly.
My back yard also has an automatic sprinkler system that I turn on whenever I see them out there. It chases them out for a few hours (until the grass dries) but they just come right back afterward.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. Trapping, turning them into Animal Control. Use Kentucky Fried Chicken,
not a cat in the world that can resist it.

You may want to set it out near the cage a few times so they get used to the cage. Then move it futher in each time.

Trap monday through thursday, so you can turn the animals in without keeping them in the cages longer than necessary.

Your kids are way more important than flea ridden strays.

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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
10. to be honest, i feel they should be killed
You can have feral cats, or you can baby birds fledge in your yard, but you can't have both. I am always going to vote on the side of the native wildlife. I don't go for poison because native animals could also consume the poison but if the neighbor is a good (accurate) shot and it is legal to shoot firearms in your area, certainly, I would ask the neighbors to kill the ferals.

My problem is more difficult, as I live in a suburban area where it is illegal to fire weapons. While it is technically legal to live trap animals, our animal control is so broke that they charge $20 a pop for you to drop off animals you have trapped -- with my annual income in the high four figures, I don't have hundreds of dollars to devote to this project. We had relief for a few years when feline leukemia ran wild but now the ferals are returning...

I honestly don't have a good answer. If you can change what is making your yard cat friendly, it can help. One thing I did was to put electric fencing around the areas where birds nest -- it doesn't shock birds and they can rest on it safely -- but it shocks the crap out of cats and has provided some relief. But again I can't afford to wire my whole yard and it looks ugly to boot.

Getting a dog and/or chasing them off "without hurting them" is just moving the problem into someone else's yard and is not really fair. We can love house cats without being sentimental about ferals, who destroy our native birdlife and who live miserable existences themselves. I apologize in advance if I have given offense, but there is no easy answer to this issue that I am aware of. I honestly believe that the most humane thing to do, for the maximum good of all, is to kill the stray cats in any legal, quick way you can manage that doesn't cause harm to other wildlife or yourself.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 04:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
28. Ah, the Compassion!
This ignorance and heartlessness in this post left me physically ill.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. i apologize
It is more difficult for me to be tactful than for the average person -- the usual deal with high-functioning autistics. I considered not posting at all but since the issue is an important one, and suburban backyard sanctuaries are going to be the last strongholds for many of our breeding songbirds, I felt it would be better to comment than not. NOthing comes for free. Misplaced -- or what I feel to be misplaced -- compassion for feral cats costs songbirds their next generation of babies. Cats will always be with us. I would like to feel as confident about our songbirds.
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ProudGerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. You have nothing to apologize for
And don't ever feel like you "shouldn't post at all". Most of us here can handle a lack of tact, this is the lounge, they look you funny if you use tact. You gave a reasonable suggestion to a severe problem. His yard is uninhabitable because of an overpopulation of an animal with no natural predator, at least one I know of....maybe he has cougars in his neighborhood.
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Bossy Monkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
12. These folks style themselves experts
http://www.alleycat.org
I don't think I'm going to wade through all their PDF files to find an answer, but you might want to give it a try. Or just email them. They certainly seem committed to Trap Neuter Release.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. they should trap neuter release on their OWN property then
I know a lot of women -- sorry, but all the ones I know active in this movement are women -- involved in this, and it is just wrong on so many levels.

I don't actually have a problem if they must do this on their own property but when they release on public property or (as happened recently) several cats on MY property, then well...I'm just flabbergasted that they are getting away with it and I have the expense of removing these nuisance cats. Remember, baby birds cannot safely go through the several days fledgling period of learning to fly where cats saturate the population. My garden is a bird sanctuary! I cannot wait two years for these cats to die a slow, miserable death of feline leukemia or distemper or whatever the disease of the week is in the neighborhood...I want them gone now.

I honestly believe that some of these women have a disease. One of them has an entire house that is not fit for human habitation, because of the numbers of feral cats she has moved into that house, so she had to buy another house. And now the second house is starting to fall apart. Another woman is suffering serious financial issues because of the vet bills. I'm not saying that this movement is all bad...but I have not personally seen any upside. Ferals are going to die sooner or later. I would like it to be sooner -- it's better for the birds, it's better for my enjoyment of my property, and in many cases it is better for these disease-ridden ferals who are too old to be socialized.

I'm sorry to be so negative and I wouldn't want to put myself forward as an expert but in my personal experience nothing good is coming of this particular movement.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Call the health department...QUICK
:)
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. maybe i should but i can't
I am not sure what good would come of official intervention. When the authorities have discovered other cat collectors, they have charged the collector with animal cruelty and seized the animals. Most of the animals end up euthanized, as feral cats cannot be socialized once the window of opportunity has closed early in life. It is not like the collector is deliberately torturing the cats.
Many are active with spay/neuter/shelter programs and have ended up with so many cats because they can't stand seeing unwanted animals euthanized. This is why they end up with the most unsocialized, most undesirable, most unhealthy pets that are throwing their lives into chaos.


My friends know my opinion on the topic and that I don't agree with their view of the subject. Beyond that, I can't really push it any further. Adding legal and psychiatric expenses to their other hassles is not going to help anything.

Many good people, especially women, have trouble putting limits on their compassion. I have tried offering support to my friends each time they make a personal vow, "No more cats!" but I have only had success with one family -- perhaps because it WAS a family and they could support each other in their desire to stop collecting.

I sometimes feel like I am the little voice of negativity and pro-death for my circle which is frustrating in and of itself. But there has to be balance.
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REP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 04:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
27. Ever Heard of West Nile Virus?
Birds are flying vermin. I don't care if people care for them on their own property, but it's just so wrong on so many levels. Just think how many children are put at risk by people attracting birds, birds that may be resevoirs of diseases that can and do affect humans. I'm sorry to be so negative, but my experience is nothing but bad with those people (who for some reason tend to be women - sorry, but all the ones I know who do this are women, and I honestly believe they have a disease).

This parody brought to you by someone who feeds birds, and whose cats are indoor-only.
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #27
30. yes, certainly feral cats may carry West Nile Virus but...
...and a great many other diseases. As far as WNV goes, we are talking about a disease that can affect humans, mammals, birds, and even reptiles. You cannot make any dent in the disease by depopulating "reservoir" populations. You must attack the disease by controlling the vector -- mosquitoes.

Anti-bird hysteria is alive and well, as here in Louisiana we've just experienced a shameful incident at a Shreveport Hospital where the staging grounds for Purple Martin -- a known PREDATOR of mosquitoes -- was being harassed as they prepared to fatten up for migration. Without birds on our properties, we are going to see pest insect populations shoot through the roof -- and thus we will see many more mosquito borne diseases like St. Louis encephalitis, WNV, even malaria.

I certainly have observed the attitude you satirize, and it is frustrating. People are afraid of our fellow victims (the birds) who are actually much better equipped than we are to hunt down and control the disease vector. We can spray poison on the environment, but the Purple Martin can pluck the mosquito right out of the air....

Educating people is key.

As far as ferals, I feel the larger health issue is distemper -- I probably feel this way because we had a large distemper outbreak some years ago -- and of course toxosplasmosis.
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radwriter0555 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
38. Cat collecting IS a mental illness actually. These women aren't mentally
balanced. Their illness is little different than some other person with obsessive compulsive syndrome; and is identical in many, many ways. In addition to the garbage and clutter, they collect live critters.

I fully support your position. It's hard to set the sentimental aside, but something has to win out, and humans and nature SHOULD in this case. Wild cats overrunning and destroying a whole neighborhood is completely wrong, no matter how cute and furry they are.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
13. shotgun? .22?
punji pit?

Big, fast, mean dog team?
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. SICK
STOP IT; you sound like a Republican.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. If people are getting bitten, killing them may be justified
Stray or feral cats who have bitten people and get picked up by Animal Control in my area (San Diego County, CA) are euthanized.

Cat bites can be very dangerous, even life-threatening. A few years ago I got bitten to the bone by one of my pet cats and had to go to the hospital. I was on intravenous antibiotics (about 12 grams per day) for 12 days. He hasn't bitten anyone since then, but nobody has tried to bathe him either.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. *Most* true ferals are not aggressive towards humans
Edited on Tue Aug-26-03 05:56 PM by SoCalDem
the ones I have seen were scared, timid souls who were even too afraid to make eye contact..

They lead short miserable lives and never experience love.. It broke my heart when we could not catch them , and then they got sick..To scoop up a sick little creature and take it to the vet to end its suffering, knowing that the first time it was touched gently by a human, was the day it died...broke my heart..:(

Pet cats are the ones who will nip at you... Ferals usually fly by without many feet touching the ground..
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. You're absolutely right about that
And re-reading the original post I see that Xithras' kids are getting bitten by FLEAS, not by cats.

Never mind.
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FireHeart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 04:12 AM
Response to Reply #18
48. I know what you mean...
Back in Ewa Beach (Hawaii) an entire colony of feral cats lived in a drain pipe just outside of the Ewa Beach Public Library. It broke my heart to see these poor starving creatures crawling fearfully from one protected area to another. Hunting and being hunted every day of their lives. They were usually stunted in growth and often died by the roadside, either hit by careless drivers or dying of wounds.

It was a real horror. Then the librarians told us about how they were trying to get local residents to help. Donate a bag or can(s) of cat food, etc. We gave a 5lb bag once a week. Did it help or not? I don't know. But we had to do something.

It came out later that since Ewa Beach had such a high level of military folks (us included) the ferals weren't always feral. Many were abandoned by military families who were being transferred and didn't want (or could) take their pets with them. What a nightmare.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 05:10 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. I see that no one has read my posts or taken my suggestions
These are not feral cats if you ever see them; they have been, sadly, just abandoned. My cat suffered the same fate. I brought her inside using a have-a-heart trap a year-and-a-half ago. I still cannot touch her, but am working on it, having read ``The Stray Cat Handbook'' and having sent for articles from Alley Cat Allies, an organization based in D.C., dedicated to managing feral cat colonies. They gave me great advice. Here is their website:

http://www.alleycat.org/
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #16
36. isn't that against DU rules?
Edited on Wed Aug-27-03 02:26 PM by leftofthedial
I recently posted a thread about getting rid of a skunk (another mammal neighborhood pest) and had several "shoot it" and several other variations on "kill it" responses. No one called anyone a Republican or called anyone "sick" over that.

I got lots of good suggestions BTW.

And for what it's worth, I don't own a gun and haven't shot anything in 35 years.
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MiltonLeBerle Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
20. There are a variety of sprays and pellets on the market-
that are designed to get rid of dogs and cats.

Tell me how to get rid of a bunch of marauding raccoons.
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geniph Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. I hate to say it,
but for many ferals, their lives are going to be spent scared, sick, injured, and otherwise miserable. Euthanasia is a kinder solution.

This is why no one should let their pet cats breed. It's an ugly life.

Call your local Animal Control and ask if the shelter can take them if you trap them. Ask if they have Have-A-Heart traps available for this.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
24. That's exactly how I managed to bring my cat inside
She had been abandoned and I fed her for nearly four months outside. I thought she eventually would become more used to me. She did, but I still couldn't touch her. I was getting panicky as the weather got colder, so I finally borrowed a have-a-heart trap from the animal hospital. The amazing woman who works with the ferals told me all about using it. It wasn't as simple as putting it out and expecting that she'd go in it right away. Also, you have to be there when the kitty is caught. You cannot just leave them in the trap.

The night I finally caught her, I couldn't believe it. I kept running back outside to make sure I wasn't hallucinating! My hands were shaking so badly that it took me four tries to dial the phone to tell the animal hospital that I had her and was on my way. Fortunately, my neighbor drove me. I would probably have hit a tree.

I read ``The Stray Cat Handbook'' to learn how to help her be less afraid and more comfortable. I also sent for articles from ``Alley Cat Allies,'' an organization devoted to managing feral cat colonies. My cat has just lost trust. I was told that I would never see her if she was a true feral. At the moment, my nearly-feral girl is sleeping behind the couch, despite the cozy little kitty house I got her. Maybe it's because my dog is sleeping behind me in my chair!

Alley Cat Allies: great resource. Their policy is trap, neuter, return.
http://www.alleycat.org/
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The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
31. Thanks for the great post.
Thanks for showing people that there are options to consider and that euthanasia is not a fait accompli.

And I always liked the Fleetwood Mac song (Stevie Nicks on vocals, I believe).
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-26-03 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. And yet we all let the homeless humans suffer...
Plenty of people are keen on killing off pathetic animals, but are intent on letting humans live because it's dignified or something. (this post doubles as an anti-homeless problem as well as a pro-euthenasia problem)

So let's snuff out the unwanted humans or build proper shelters so everybody can be taken care of until they can support themselves again. I prefer the latter, naturally! Though, Heaven forbid, it might require a small amount of tax money, *gasp*. That's frivolous wasteful spending according to republicans and Joe Lieberman! Can't have tax increases, oh no no no no no! :eyes:

I mean I've spent most of my childhood and enough moments of my adult life as being scared, sick, or otherwise miserable and nobody's euthanized me! :evilgrin:
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I agree with you
Neither of the animal hospitals I patronize will euthanize a healthy animal. All of my animals have been rescue. If you read my previous post on this thread, you will see what I went through to rescue my nearly-feral kitty, myself. She had nobody else:-(

As for people, many have become homeless thanks to Bush*s poor economy. When Reagan emptied the mental hospitals, many of these people became homeless, as well, wandering the streets, not taking their medication. It was a national tragedy.:mad:

There is no money for proper shelters or health care for these people because Bush* needs his tax cut PLUS spending billions in Iraq.:grr:

If I had my choice, I'd take animals over humans, anyday.:shrug:
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amazona Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. well...good points but...
...I am not pro-euthanasia for feral cats because their lives are miserable and diseased. I am pro-euthanasia because they have no place in our natural environment, they are predators on native species including many baby songbirds, and they are fairly efficient at spreading diseases like distemper and toxo. We have to make difficult choices in life. A choice to spray/neuter/release a feral cat is a choice to keep that cat in the outdoor environment for however many more months...it is a choice to kill birds. The science is quite clear on this. I don't happen to feel it is particularly compassionate to kill baby birds and to threaten dozens, if not hundreds of species, because of one feral NON-NATIVE species.

I've had episodes of homelessness in my past and will be the first to admit that as a young woman I never even dreamed of going anywhere near a homeless shelter. Perhaps it is a misconception, but I felt it was unsafe to be around a concentration of desperate, drunk, drugged men. I personally support a dole, so that poor people can make their own accommodations. Yeah, I realize that the addicts will just use the cash to get high...but it bothers me that we don't help the people who CAN be helped because of the addicts who CAN'T be helped. Not sure what the answer is.

With Alzheimer's in my family, I very much support the concept of euthanasia, since I want that option for myself if my mind goes and I exist only to suffer and to drain my family's bank account for the benefit of the health care corporations. Yet, again, there would need to be safeguards to make sure that the euthanasia is the patient's choice...very difficult issue.

Hmm. This is not a very helpful post, is it?
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 03:50 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Check out my post #26
My little half-feral girl just used her box. She has always been very good about this. She has never tried to go back outside. She has been there and prefers it inside, despite my presence. She knows that she will be fed and cared for. I am never one to give up on an animal, unless my vet says we have exhausted all other options.;(
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #33
47. I don't know what to tell you, amazona
I believe that all life is valuable, human or otherwise. I went through a lot just to rescue a cat who I still cannot touch, but I am happy, just knowing she is safe. (see my previous posts on this thread, 24, 26 and 44) My dogs are rescue and were threatened with euthanasia. They are beautiful and very sweet animals. No one deserves this unless he/she chooses it. If there is no hope of survival, due to painful and potentially fatal disease, I support it. Otherwise, I feel that life should be preserved at all costs.:shrug:
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Don_G Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. Stuff It!
Been there and done that with my Mom's first stroke and long unwanted father....

I prefer to be a caring human being no matter the cost....





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stoner_guy Donating Member (42 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
34. Traps work the best
There is no pleasant solution to a stray cat problem. We've had a lot of strays and I've found trapping to be the best. I've tried sprays and pellets, but they smell as bad to humans as they do to cats and are only marginally effective. I've tried running them off by yelling and chasing, but they come right back. I've even tried shooting them with pepper corns out of a BB gun, but the accuracy of a pepper corn is pretty poor and I can rarely hit them, plus you run the risk of eye injury (the cat) which isn't an acceptable outcome. I haven't tried to kill them with the BB gun, there aren't very many safe directions to fire in my yard, plus I don't know if a BB gun is suffiently powerful for a clean kill. If you live in a more rural area, a .22 would be an effective cat round. If you have a bolt, or pump, the .22 shorts are very quiet. I live in the city so firearms aren't an option.

I eventually settled on trapping, you can buy the "humane" cage ones at the hardware store for about $50. If you put food in the very back and place it near their normal routes, they are very effective. I've never had a cat a couldn't trap. I even got my own a couple of times (its none too bright). Word of warning, the cats will not consider the cage trap to be humane. They will basically freak out completely and can even injure themselves trying to escape. What has worked for me is to go out and cover the trap with a big towel as soon as you hear the trap spring. They are less panicked in the covered cage. Take them as soon as possible to the local animal shelter. Check with the shelter to find out what days they are open, and only set out traps on nights when they will be open the next day. You don't want to keep a cat in one of those tiny cages any longer than necessary, both for the good of the cat as well as your mental health.
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DoNotRefill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
39. Depending on where you live and your sensibilities...
Either a humane trap, or a rifle.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
42. Do You Have Any Neighbors You Don't Like?
A strategically-placed bowl of tuna now-and-then could move the problem to someplace more desireable.
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Raenelle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-27-03 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
43. What I would do--adopt them as outside cats.
Quit giving money to other charities for a bit and use that money to round them up and get them fixed. Then just put food out for them. It's gooooooooooood karma.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-28-03 04:01 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. I have a friend who does this
All her cats were rescued from being outside on their own. She has four ``indoor'' cats, but has another four who will not put up with being so sequestered. She has a cat door to her enclosed porch. She feeds them there, has beds, water dishes and treats. She has had them all neutered. She says that it gives her such pleasure to see them all gathered there, warm and safe. :-)
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-30-03 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Your suggestion is the most humane one and is what I would do
The one cat in my neighborhood who was like this is now eating her dinner behind me, as I write this. I brought her inside a year-and-a-half ago. She is now safe and I feel so good as I watch her behaviors slowly change and her slow realization that she is a housecat once again. It is taking time, but it is more than worth it, to me. Each small life is valuable.:-)
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #43
52. My ex-wife has two outside cats that were strays
She can actually pet one of them, but they both run away from any other human. Friends Of Cats paid for their neutering.
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zanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
50. Make them "barn cats"
Leave dry food out for them, provide a dog house or similar structure to keep them out of the weather. I've been doing this for years, and most of the strays were eventually adopted and adjusted to living with people. They're incredibly forgiving animals--even though they've been mistreated AND abandoned, given loving care, almost all of them eventually become good pets.
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Rhiannon12866 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-01-03 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #50
54. You are a good person, zanana !
Any suggestions for me? I brought my poor abandoned kitty inside a year-and-a-half ago, have fed her, given her toys, treats, and veterinary care, and yet she is still half-afraid of me. Thank you for all you have done for these abandoned little beings. This is really wonderful!
:toast:
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
51. Moth Balls.....
Edited on Sun Aug-31-03 10:04 AM by BiggJawn
Not the little flutterer's testicles, but the white stinky things.

Cats do NOT like the aroma of Napthalene or Paradichlorobenzine.
Scatter mothballs under the bushes, along the fence, wherever they "scratch".
And tell the kids NOT to play with them.

I used to be bothered with cats making "Amore" under my trailer a long time ago. That's how I convinced them to move along.

And that's how we keep our "Catch, Clip, and Release" strays out of the garage.
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DBoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-31-03 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
53. Buy (or adopt) a dog
Most dogs chase cats. Most cats will run away. Eventually the cat avoids the dog and goes elsewhere.
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