Does anyone know anything about Alcoholism?

[VoteDemocratic2004]

I have a friend that I am about to write off for good and I need some suggestions.

I made friends with this man a few years back and he keeps pretending to be from a very wealthy family. I didn't care either way if he had money or not I just cared about his friendship.

In the past he has embellished the truth to make himself look good and make me look bad but I have overlooked what he has done wrong to me.

Last month I found out that he didn't have any food in his house so I bought him a large amount of food and I packed it up and put the frozen things in a cooler and sent it out. The shipping cost wasn't that much so it was cheaper to buy the food by my house and send him everything. I cleaned out my deep freeze which consisted of a few good steaks and several other good cuts of meat.

The package arrived at his house a day later and everything was still cold.

A few days after that he told me that he didn't feel like taking the box in so he left it in the car and I assume everything spoiled because it is summer and it's hot out.

I sent him money to pay his rent and I believe that he went out and bought booze and cigarettes instead.

My last call to him was a week ago and I never intend to call him again because he kept complaining that I was calling him too much and emailing him too much.

I thought that he died one day and I did get carried away with the calls because it sounded like he passed out and fainted.

I grew up in a household that didn't drink or smoke. They didn't go to church either and they were staunch Democrats not crazy right wingers.

The bad part is the lies, deception and rudeness that I have dealt with as part of his friendship.

Is being rude and inconsiderate part of being an alcoholic?

He thinks that he can be rude and arrogant and still be my friend.

I am not answering my phone when he calls anymore and he keeps writing me letters like we are still friends.

Should I send his letters back return to sender?

I have no idea what to do about this person. He has been so rude and arrogant that I can't take being a friend of his anymore.

I think that the only time that he is nice is when he drinks.

He is so rude that he counts how many emails you send him and then tells you that you are over your limit by one :grr:.

I stopped emailing him one week ago and that is when I stopped answering my phone also.

I need help here because I don't know what it's like being friends of an alcoholic.

[Moonbeam_Starlight]

1. I'm wondering what the hell

you get out of this "friendship" and why you are even in it.

Seriously, let him go.

Alcoholic or not, are you a glutton for self-punishment or something?

And I have a little too much experience with alcoholics, but can't really diagnose that with what you said and it sounds like he lives far away from you.

On edit, I may not know if he is an alcoholic or not, but "jerk" sounds like a good description.

[VoteDemocratic2004]

6. I pulled the battery out of my phone

I asked someone to take the phone away from me so that I couldn't call him anymore.

He took our friendship for granted.

In a way I feel like I must move on and then something is telling me to give him another chance at friendship but I don't think that I can.

I am the villain and anything that goes wrong in his life he blames it on me.

[Tosca]

17. CLASSIC alcoholic behavior.

I am the villain and anything that goes wrong in his life he blames it on me.

[liberalnurse]

2. There are a lot if 12-Steppers here at DU.

They can be much more instructive than I can....but......

I say.....set you limits.....it's not okay for the insane manipulation.......

[graywarrior]

3. Go to AL-ANON meetings.

Please. You have NO clue what you're dealing with. AL-ANON will help you deal with it. Go to a few AA meetings and listen to what an alcoholic will describe about him/herself.
You are not equipped to deal with the disease. Your friend is an egomaniac with an inferiority complex. He needs help.

[flamingyouth]

11. Amen - that's the best recommendation ever

Al-Anon is very helpful. Good luck.

[madrchsod]

4. the only friend is his bottle

i`m being totally honest to you. i`ve been thru trying to help someone very close..honest there is nothing you can do.they have to do it thenselves and since you are not related -do not waste anymore time.

[floridaguy]

5. Yeah, unfortunately I know too much about alcoholism in the family

It sucks, but you sound like you care about him. If he's an alcoholic, he has a disease, which has to be treated like any other diseases. Someone who abuses booze or drugs, is not necessarily an alcoholic. Most types of abuse lead to family problems and heartache.
My father and my brother were both acoholics, and they were some of the most caring individuals I have ever met. Good luck to you.

[VoteDemocratic2004]

16. I do care about him

How much more can one take when he thinks that you are his problem and you are trying to help him.

I phoned his probation officer up because he needed help real bad and I thought that he died.

For that stunt he thinks that I was trying to ruin his life and I was trying to save him from being put out in the streets and I needed to find out who his landlord was so that I could pay his rent.

When I sent him the money to pay his rent he called me up drunk and I knew that he spent that cash on booze. :grr:

[Tosca]

19. Really? By word or by deed?

"My father and my brother were both acoholics, and they were some of the most caring individuals I have ever met."

My experience is they talk nice when they want you on their side, but they never follow through on their promises. They're too self-involved with the bottle.

[floridaguy]

26. Their caring wasn't about me

and it's not always about you. My brother would give someone his last dime, and my father went out of his way to help a lot of people. That made them caring individuals. Of course they were some of the best manipulators and bullshit artists on the planet, but that doesn't mean they were any less caring, or that I loved or cared about them any less.

[Mikimouse]

7. I'm an expert, what do you want to know?

Arrogance is part of the gig, and the fact the he is trying to define boundaries is pretty classic too (at least as far as my experience goes). He wants you to be there when he needs you, but not when he doesn't. He is probably friendlier when he is buzzed, and rudest when he is not (and looking for it). He keeps you at arms length so that you don't have a chance to see him as he really is. Frankly, he will take you down with him if you continue to support him with finances and other instrumental types of stuff. How old is he? It is hard to really say a great deal about it, other than what I have already said, without knowing some more about his background. I send you my best wishes. If you wish, reply to this and we can have a dialogue about it. :hug:

[Kenergy]

8. In my opinion...

write him off.

[Momof1]

9. Toxic relationship....get rid of him now

For 20 yrs I was best friend's with some one who was rude to me constantly kept on putting me down. And the next day we were "friends" again.

Its been 5 years now that we haven't been hanging out together, and looking back, I wonder why I stayed friends for so long.

She is still constantly tearing other people down to make her look/feel better. She has not changed, not even the death of her father 6 mos ago changed her.

Just stop answering the phone, delete the emails and go on with your life.

People like this will never change, its hard wired into their system.

[bushwakker]

10. unfortunately i have some experience in this area

i won't go into details but it is very hard to reverse the course your friend is on - and only he can do it. you need to cut this person off and stop diminishing your emotional and financial resources on him. you can't control his emotional health but you can control yours. life is too short and you've done what you can. sorry if this is advice is blunt but he is not your problem.

[TNDemo]

12. I had an alcoholic brother

who died five years ago. He tried to hide everything from us (his family) but had five wives who all thought they could help him (got lots of sad stories) and his last ex-wife really filled me in on what his life was like. It sounds pretty familiar. Is your friend rude when he is drinking or sober? My brother was quite a great guy when sober but had quite a lip on him when drinking. When you sent him that food it is quite likely he was drunk and forgot to bring it in. Or he told you he was out of food so you would send him money and he could get more booze. My brother also took a lot of pills with his booze so he was a real mess. He also had a very distorted version of reality in what he would tell people and what the facts were.

I really don't know what to tell you except that truly it is out of your hands as far as "helping" him. It has to come from within him and sadly I don't think many that have that serious a problem are ever able to climb out of it. I have thought many times about what I could have done to have prevented my brother's death and I have sadly resigned myself to the fact that had he lived he would have continued the same pattern and all of us would be left in the wake of frustration and despair in trying to help him. I'm no expert but I have been there.

[VoteDemocratic2004]

18. He is rude when he is sober

He picked his package up at UPS and then he said that the box was too heavy so he carried some of it in and then passed out and when he woke up it was too late to go and get it out of the car.

He has a bunch of my stuff at his house and he won't give it back. I think that I will write it off because he could have possibly torn it all up in a fit of rage.

[candy]

13. Stop enabling him,now!!!!! I speak from experience.

[mongo]

14. Please don't let him use you.

You are obviously better than that.

[havocmom]

15. Alcoholic or no, this person is an abuser.

Some alcoholics manage to function pretty well and keep the drinking secret. Some behave as your 'friend' does. Some people who behave badly are not alcoholic, just abusive users.

You can't heal somebody else. If they want help and are trying, by all means, be a good sport and help them along. If they lie, cheat, make constant excuses and are not really doing anything to help themselves, get away and stay away!

You can't save someone who won't be saved. If you keep trying and using your resources to 'help' a person like that, it would seem you might be 'co-dependent'. Look for a CODA (co-dependents anonymous) group near you and drop on in a few times. It may help you get better at not being a users doormat.

Meaning well and doing nice things is fine, but some people just are not taking care of business and holding up their end. Anyone who would leave food out to spoil has a problem. But when you keep doing nice things and getting shafted, might be a good time to sit down and ask yourself what you are getting out of it. Some people go out of their way to get abused so there must be some sort of 'reward' in it for them.

I am not trying to be rude, just honest. I have seen alcoholism and co-dependency up close and personal. My dad was one, my mom the other. It has taken most of my adult life to make sense of my family's screwed up style and get emotionally healthy. Trust me, go find a CODA meeting and go with an open mind. The life you save may be your own. And face it, if you don't take care of yourself you can't do good for others.


Good luck. Let us know how you are doing. Don't wanna know about any of your 'friend's' continued abuse of you, but care how you are doing moving on from it.

Peace & Strength,
hm

[VoteDemocratic2004]

23. He is a real person

It's not me he is real and I wish that I would have never met him at times.

He pretended to own this huge construction business and his life was a lie.

I could care less if he had a business or not. I cared about him as a friend until I started getting mentally abused by him.

I don't need that kind of BS in my life right now or ever in my life.

[havocmom]

25. I know he is real. Never said he wasn't.

but if you put up with it to your own determent, you are the one you need to take care of, not him,

You cannot heal him. Don't wast your time and energy. Walk away and stay away. If you can't do that, get the help of a support group like CODA or Al-Anon. If you do not walk away, you will be setting yourself up for a life of hell. If you do not take the steps YOU need to to take care of you, well, you are sorta in the same boat he is.

Am telling you this as a friend. And the reason we do not want to hear about him is that if complaining about him is how you get your reward, you really need Al-Anon of CODA. Some people get their reward being drunk. Some, from trying to take care of a drunk.

Either way, life would be hell and I would like for you to avoid that road all together. Get a phone book or a newspaper with community meetings listed and make a connection that will probably make your life a lot better.

Let me know when you do and I will cheer you on. If you don't want to help yourself, well, keep wringing your hands and sobbing, but don't expect much of an audience.

Again, not trying to be rude. Just trying to be honest. I know of what I speak. You can't deal with a drunk and nobody else wants to deal with someone playing the martyr. Get away and get yourself OK with that.

peace & strength,
hm

[BensMom]

20. Same as my friend

I had the same thing several years ago. I didn't have any of the behavior directed at me, so I continued the friendship. I knew Bill was an alcoholic, but I was one of the few people he kept in touch with on a regular basis. I must have thought one day I would have a breakthrough with Bill. It sounded so easy, I'd honk the horn, he'd jump in my car and I'd drive him to treatment - and we'd live on as healthy people. I kind of waited around for that moment of change to come.




Never happened. I did not hear from Bill for 3 days. Then I got the call, "Bill was drunk last night and died at detox.."

[mzmolly]

21. I think you should write him telling him why you've decided you'd rather

not be friends anylonger - and ask that he not contact you going forward. :shrug:

Have you read any books on being Co-Dependent?

Most people are codependent to a degree, this site has some helpful info for those interested in learning more:

http://www.drirene.com/codepend1.htm

[nosmokes]

22. there's good advice in this in this thread, vote dem.

basically, us alcoholics and addicts are about as self-centered as anyone you'll ever meet. and you're doing him no favors saving him from himself. let him hit his bottom, let him experience exactly where the disease of addiction takes him. that's what it takes sometimes. some kids, as children, can feel the warmth from the burning fire as their hand gets closer and closer and they stop moving their hand closer to the flame before their skin blisters. but there's folks like me, and maybe your friend?, we end up with a big ol' bandage and a permanent scar. it's painful to watch, but the best thing you can do is allow him to sink as far down as he's willing to sink.

[VoteDemocratic2004]

24. I appreciate all of your help

My life has been messed up because I cared about him and his well being.

I have to care about me from now on because why should I help someone who doesn't want to help himself of care about my friendship.

[Rhiannon12866]

27. I have had experience with alcoholics

They are unreachable by reason or logic. Most have to reach rock-bottom before they will finally realize that they have to make a life-change. They first have to lose a job, then friends, then family. That's what rock-bottom means. You cannot reach this person through friendship. He has to go his own way and decide, himself, that he needs to change. The more that you help him, the more that you are "enabling" him. Let him go and stop torturing yourself. You can still help his pets, but you cannot help him unless he wants help. I know it is very hard, but, sometimes we have to be cruel to be kind. Perhaps Al-Anon could help you. The advice that I am giving you comes from them. It's a support group developed for family and friends of alcoholics. Good luck and Godspeed.:-)

[NightTrain]

28. My father was an alcoholic.

He quit drinking shortly after my 15th birthday, but by then he had inflicted all sorts of psychological damage. (No, he never hit me. My mom, however, was another story.)

After reading your post, I have to assume that you're doing the right thing by writing that guy off. He's a self-destructive loser who will think nothing of taking you down with him if you let it happen.

[TrogL]

29. Take him to an open AA meeting

Call AA central office and ask for the nearest open meeting.

Tell him you will not give him another dime, another handout or even another kind word unless he goes with you to a meeting.

At the meeting, see if you can get him hooked up with a sponsor.

Then walk away.

Get yourself into Al-Anon if you insist upon continuing to deal with him.

I've been on both sides of the street.

[underseasurveyor]

30. Too much experience

With alcoholics and drug addicts in my family.

First thing is to define what your own boundaries are of what is acceptable behavior and what is not. Second, screw guilt period! Your friend's choices in his life are his and not because you did or did not do something for him. Addicts can play the guilt card very well. DO NOT feel bad or 'feel sorry for' events taking place in this persons life based on the choices he is making.

We have an 18 year old nephew that chooses to spend his paycheck on drugs and booze instead of buying groceries and he started to come over and ask for food because he was hungry. We didn't mind the first few times he's family but then he began to expect that we would feed him on a regular basis (the oh poor me, it's not my fault, I'm a helpless victim act). That way it would enable him continue to choose to spend all his money on booze and drugs. heh heh NOT! After the forth or fifth night we had a little chat with the lad. Of course then we instantly turned into the mean selfish people that didn't give a damn about poor little helpless him. He plays the victim role very well. But you see his victim-hood is self-imposed.

That's just one example and might give you an idea of how and what boundaries are.
Third, do not ever give money to an addict. IF you feel that you absolutely must pay a bill or rent for them (preferably never, but only once maybe twice at the most and ONLY if you can afford it without your own family suffering any consequences), then write out a check and mail it yourself to the creditor. Continuing to bail someone out of a jam only prolongs their suffering and the lessons they need to learn about making good or poor choices for themselves.

Forth, it's OK to be there and help a friend, but it's not OK to do it for them. That only prevents them from experiencing the consequences of their own actions which really, if ya think about it, isn't fair to them. It prevents them from growing.

And fifth, addicts lie. They just do, it comes with the territory. It's what the disease is and does. They will do and say anything in order to get their fix. It becomes survival for them. Doesn't necessarily make them a bad person. Like I said at the beginning, I come from a long line of addicts and the people I love the most in my life are addicts. Thank god they're all sober now and have been for 10 years and more. So there is hope but you must also realize that you don't have the power nor is it your responsibility to "save" him or "make him" better. And also, do not feel guilty if there does come a time that you decide that you can not be this persons friend any longer. You don't have to tolerate "a friend" or anybody that becomes or continues to be abusive on any level or in any way.
That is allowed ya know :-)

They'll get angry. Kick and scream, be rude, act hurt and indignant, etc. and they'll not only justify their own behavior, addicts will at the same time try to lay the blame on someone or something else. 'It's not my fault' or 'it is beyond my control'. 'If only he or she did this then I wouldn't have to do that'. 'If this would or wouldn't have happened, I wouldn't be in this mess now'.
After a while you'll begin to notice that nothing ever seems to be their fault and or it's always beyond their control.

Here's some wonderful and extremely insightful reading at this website I think may be of great help. It has helped me understand myself better and to look at things from a much healthier perspective. Best of luck to you and your friend.

http://www.joy2meu.com/index.html

[Zookeeper]

31. Everyone here has given you good advice...

that there isn't much for me to add.

The bottom line: *Nothing* is more important to your friend than booze, including his own health and safety. Until he truly wants to get sober, he will only drain your resources and energy and continue to resent you for helping him.

Good luck!

[SarahB]

32. My take.

Addictive people are often very kind one minute and then shortly after, not so kind. They can also be quite high functioning in some things and in other things, not so much. Some get so out of control, they lose everything. Others just stay in denial mode and need some sort of consistant level of maintainence and even substituting their alcohol of choice for other things, and don't get worse really, but still aren't so pleasant either.
The thing is though is things never change when you just let them get away with treating you badly. I'd say just pull back and try not to take it personally. Definitely, don't give him more money. If things get bad enough, he might finally be forced into taking some responsibility and surrender to his addiction. It's all more easily said than done sometimes, but remember it's not you at all. It's him.

[BiggJawn]

33. I'm reading something in this...

But I won't say, because I don't know you.

But I put up with a BUNCH of rude shit from a drunk, because I was lonely and she was a GREAT fuck. Found out later that I wasn't the only one who thought so.

[prolesunited]

34. Just wondering

Is this person a DUer?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

35. ;)

[greatauntoftriplets]

38. ;)

Hmmmm.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

36. He's reading this thread..he just sent a nasty note to my inbox

Apparently threads like this simply reward him..probably not a good idea to post them

[underseasurveyor]

37. That's was rude and uncalled for

:sigh: But that's part of the disease, "striking out" at perceived threats against their addiction is typical of how addicts behave. Gotta protect that fix at all costs. Plus I think it safe to say that he doesn't like 'hearing' what he's reading on this thread. I say tough! He can choose not to read it.

Sending you a nasty message is unacceptable addict-like behavior!

on edit: that's safe to say, not save.....hmmm

PS: As they say NSMA, it's better to give a resentment than to get one ;-)

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

42. This forum is enabling both of them over and over

they aren't served by all the drama they can drum up over and over while taking advantage of the caring generous people of DU who get USED by this stuf repeatedly. It's a slap in the face to this community that they repeatedly do this.

[bratcatinok]

44. I agree with you wholeheartedly!

I've been here a year and I've seen this several times. They both abuse DU.

[Don_G]

47. Who are you talking about?

You have been here a year and she was here since this board started but you don't know how to hit the ignore button so you have to go along with a person that you like just to feel so much better about yourself.

The woman that dumped me cooks at homeless shelters and contributes so much more to people then most people will do that post negative messages about her.

Do you know what an ignore button is? Why don't you use it instead of feeling like you want to contribute something negative about a woman that has done so much for people in her life.

What did she do to any of you that hate her was she more of a democrat that anybody else was?

Sure she was needy and that is what I liked about her but she got her life together and instead of making fun of people she goes out and volunteers at homeless shelters.

[Bunny]

45. Is this our fifth go-round with them, or sixth?

It's really kind of sad, isn't it?

[underseasurveyor]

46. Yeah ok, I see what you're saying.......

Haven't spent enough time around here lately to be aware of old 'reruns'.

Apparently this has been an un-changing and on-going thang, ay. Alrighty then ;-) Thanks for the tap with the ol' clue stick NSMA :thumbsup:

Hmm.., It never ceases to amaze me how anyone can behave the same way or do the same thing over and over and over again and then somehow like magic, expect to get a different result. If ya want something in your life to change, ya gotta do something different :think: Right? :smoke:

[DsylxicBleus]

39. type in Katherine van Wormer.. wrote Bush DRY DRUNK SYNDROME, and is

very informative...

I can speak from 35 years of experience behind the bottle about pissing off people..

alcohol is a bitch ... a cruel mistress.. that wont let you take any vacations.

it takes about 20 years to begin to get serious about drying out, then another 10 or 15 to do it.

Meditation is one of the best means to get a grip on what is happening...

AA sucks, but it isn't supposed to be fun, it is supposed to save your life.

if you really are concerned you need to go to an ALANON meeting.. just call AA. it is for families and friends of alcoholics to better understand what is going on.
if for no other reason go to just understand you are not abandoning your friend ..he is already gone. you might get information on doing an 'Intervention' as a last resort.. might not work.. but will give him something to think about when he finally hits "Rock Bottom

good luck

[Zookeeper]

40. Welcome to DU, DsylxicBleus!

[HarveyBriggs]

41. Get some counseling, sweetie.

I'm not a counselor, but I've been through the drill.

You sound like you're engaged in co-dependant behavior. The term began with A-A, to describe a set of behaviors prone to those who are involved with alcoholics. As psychologists studied the behavior they found similar patterns in others who were invovled with other types of addicts and abusers.

Here's the scarey part of co-dependant behavior: You're likely to repeat it with somebody else. And it could get you killed.

Social scientists have repeatedly put an addict and a co-dependant in in crowded rooms and learned that even when these two people don't discuss their problems, they will find each other and hook up. There are deep, subconsciouss patterns and responses involved in co-dependant couples, that if allowed to go untreated, will repeat themselves.

You might not be a co-dependant. Then again, I did see the word, "enabler" from somebody else. If you get counseling here, and that is not your problem, then at the very least it's something that helped you through a difficult time and understood the behavior of a sick acquaintance. If you are a co-dependant behavior, it could save you a lot of heartache, and maybe even your life.

I mean it sincerely, see a counselor.

Harvey Briggs

[smirkymonkey]

43. Run from this person as fast as you can.

You can not help him, don't even bother. He will drag you down with him.

Also, an alanon or Co-dependence anonymous meeting should be very helpful to you in dealing with this situation. You are only enabling him, not helping him.

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

48. You're not going to save him

until he wants to be saved.

(I know a little bit about alcoholics-- I am one.)