Deer killing programs.... What do you think?

[johnnie]

I am curious on your thoughts of the deer killing programs in areas that are overpopulated with them. On one hand it seems like a unnecessary, inhumane slaughter, but on the other hand it is sad to see a lot of these animals starving to death and ending up roadkill while at the same time putting a lot of lives at risk by the possibilities of being hit by vehicles.
Here is an article from our local paper. You might have to register, but it is just zip code, male or female and year of birth.

Deer-kill opponents exploring options

" Solon- About 40 angry people gathered in a restaurant here Wednesday night to organize a campaign to fight the city's ongoing deer-killing program.

"I'm shaking," said Sharon Arslanian, who lives on 28 acres on SOM Center Road. "I want to stop this right now. This is a terrible thing we're teaching our children - if you don't like something, kill it."

Three sharpshooters from the Connecticut-based White Buffalo Inc. began shooting deer from tree perches in various neighborhoods Tuesday as the animals fed on corn bait.

The shootings are expected to continue daily through the end of March. The goal is to kill 600 deer, about half the estimated deer population in the city. "

http://www.cleveland.com/search/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1108636524278381.xml?ncounty_cuyahoga


What do you all think about this?

[DrGonzoLives]

1. When we wipe out their natural predators

this is the result - deer overpopulation.

I'd rather see deer hunting season expanded by perhaps a month - at least then, some of those deer will end up as meat and not just be tossed away.

Of course, the ideal solution would be to cut back on urban sprawl and start re-introducing predators to the forests where the deer live, but it's not going to happen.

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. I would like to see laws enforced which dictate that the hunter must

have the deer processed into meat and then turn in a receipt with their license.

[LynneSin]

8. Exactly

My family got 3 deer this year (My 13 year old nephew bagged his first deer). Everything is used on that animal outside the skin & bones. In fact my fridge is overflowing with deer meat, something that I not only enjoy eating but is much healthier than regular red meat.

Hunting for the sake of killing is just wrong. If you aren't going to use what you have killed - then why bother? However, I do know some food banks will actually accept deer donations because 1 deer can feed alot of hungry folks at the shelter

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. We do this too. We have one deer of our own in the freezer and than

one from a friend of my husband's who loves to hunt but doesn't want the meat. He gives the deer to us and we process it.

[slackmaster]

5. I'd take it a step farther than cutting back urban sprawl

I'm strongly in favor of putting a cap on the human population world-wide.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. How would you suggest we go about that? Enforced abortions? Sterilization?

Lottery for family planning? I'm just interested.

[slackmaster]

12. I totally disapprove of coercion in all forms

I thought I'd been around long enough and posted enough to make that clear. I am 100% pro-choice in all matters.

Educate people about the problems of overpopulation, and make birth control measures easily available.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. I'm not coming down on you. I'm just interested in how this could be done.

If we're not coercing, how could we cap?

[TXlib]

26. Re-introduce natural predators

Lions, tigers, & bears (oh my).

[slackmaster]

32. Gentle persuasion, education, economic development

It's clear that as people become more educated and affluent they tend to have fewer children. There will (and IMO probably should) be people who are exceptionally fertile and enjoy having big families.

I do favor decreasing tax incentives for larger numbers of offspring. That is contingency management, and generally I don't consider economic consequences to be coercive. Of course we who have been parents all know that the meager tax breaks we give for dependents represents only a tiny fraction of the cost of raising someone to adulthood. I'm optimistic that as people become more focused on work at a higher intellectual level, and service to society, that they will naturally have fewer offspring.

If we as a species make a conscious decision to check our numbers we would be the first ever to do so. That's evolution on an unprecedented level.

[Deep13]

15. predators; suburbs

I'm from NE Ohio and know the area that these controlled hunts are occurring. These are places where hunting buy humans is not generally allowed since they are in dense suburbs.

Absolutely agree that the lack of predators and the restriction of predator range by sprawl is the problem. Our do-nothing R state government won't do anything about it and our town govt. is just money hungry.

[havocmom]

18. With a little digging, you might find that predators are re-introducing

themselves. Coyotes are on the East Coast and the cougar is moving further and further east, retaking much of it's original range. As the prey species prosper, the meat eaters see increased birthrates and start expanding range.

As we hunt down predators, we are helping natural selection along and building better predators. The smartest ones don't get caught and live to breed. Go lions, go.

[yellowcanine]

36. Yep - but coyotes also will snack on house cats and the family pooch

not to mention lambs on sheep farms. So this "solution" is not without its downside. OTOH it really isn't a "choice". Coyotes are moving into suburbia whether we like it or not.

[havocmom]

48. Suburbia? LOL. Take a walk late at night or real early in the morning.

I used to see them in the center of Tucson very often. The are real good at working out the comings and goings of humans and using our infrastructure to their own advantage. I have seen urban storm drainage canals used as coyote highways. I have seen them come out across mall parking lots 30 minutes after closing time to scarf up any food litter then wait on the curb on a major traffic way for a safe time to cross into an undeveloped lot to grab a bunny and a nap.

I have walked with them in the pre-dawn hours and chased them from in front of my apartment door.

A couple golf course grounds keepers I know will tell you about water hazards, rattlesnakes and cougars in sand traps early in the morning after rains. "Yeah, it's a par 4 hole. Stay on the greens and DO NOT put your hands anywhere you can't see cuz the snakes are awake now. Oh, and mind the bunkers. Those big cats are cranky in the morning." All of this activity frequently observed by bobcats sitting on top of saguaros. I have seen owls on the giant cacti glaring at bobcats on neighboring cacti. Pretty amazing out there early in the day!

Have heard coyotes have been spotted in Central Park in NYC. They are doing real well taking advantage of all the goodies human activity offer.

Never let my cats out unattended and they live to a ripe old age. Most people I know who let their urban kitties roam end up replacing them fairly often.

[ScreamingMeemie]

2. Selfridge Air Force Base has a problem with deer. I believe last year

they held a lottery and allowed deer hunting. I am in the group that believes it's humane to the animals. If one has ever seen a dead deer lying on the side of the road, they'd be for this.

I am zipping up my asbestos suit right now...;)

[TXlib]

29. No need for the asbestos suit

We don't seem to have very many of the doe-eyed, "But you're shooting Bambi", weepy, crystal-worshipping moonbat whackjobs on today.

Being a true naturalist requires understanding that nature is generally very cruel, and to help preserve the natural order when we have brought it very much out-of-whack requires making hard decisions.

I enjoy fuckin' with overly-emotional, mealy-mouthed types almost as much as I enjoy fuckin' with moral hypocrites.

[Briarius]

3. It's more humane than letting them starve to death

along with the destruction that overpopulation brings. Since we've eliminated all the deer's natural predators, we have to keep the population in check.

[MissMillie]

6. Extend the season

or allow hunters to get more than one or two.

It is more human for them to be killed by hunters than it is for them to die of starvation, or from being hit by a car.

Sometimes when there are too many of them and their food supply is short, the actually go into town and eat out of dumpsters--which can be dangerous too as there are often things that may be toxic to them (cleaners, etc).

[LynneSin]

10. BTW ,for farmers Deer is one of the most costly pests

If you ever take a look at a field of crops, the farmer usually overplants the outer peremeter of the field specifically for wild animal to use for food. And especially in a corn field, that overplanted outer layer is suppose to help keep the deer out of the middle of the cornfield.


Deer can be very destructive if it is allowed to run through a corn field because it will knock over corn stalks and thus killing the plants

[HereSince1628]

11. Can we have deer and woodland wildflowers?

This was a topic of a widlife ecology symposium on ecological modelling over a decade ago.

What I walked away with was this...our natural areas are increasingly not natural. Left to their own devices to work out a stable eigenvector of species richness, the diversity of most protected areas will be radically simplified.

[amazona]

35. Audubon Magazine had a good article on this a few years ago

The answer seems to be if deer are not controlled, we will not only lose what is left of our wildflowers but we'll lose the shrubs too and even the next generation of young trees will be eaten before they can grow to any significant size.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[HereSince1628]

40. I think that was about the same research...

The work involved projections and analysis of a Jacobian matrix and I think it was about a protected area in Missouri.

[yellowcanine]

38. Songbird populations also decline as deer populations increase.

because deer eat all of the undergrowth which serves as habitat for the birds.

[HereSince1628]

42. I can see how oven birds and yellow warblers would be impacted

I'm not a vertebrate zoologist so there are probably many ground nesting/low shrub nesting species that I am not aware of.

[vi5]

14. I'm not a hunter but of hunters I know....

..there is more respect and natural order and dignity involved in how the deers life is ended at their hands then when it starves to death or gets hit by a car trying to cross a highway. It's horrible either way but I am convinced that expanding the hunting season or doing it that way is much more humane.

[bleedingheart]

16. most hunters are environmentalist tree huggers but won't admit it

because the RW has made tree hugging a bad thing....

The hunters I know are naturalists and are very much in tune with the environment as you stated....

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Ahhh...MrG is a proud, treehugging hunter. Someday we'll get that

50 acres of woodland. :hi:

[Beware the Beast Man]

22. Teddy Roosevelt's a great example.

Big game hunter, yet pro-conservation.

[Padraig18]

24. Tree-hugging, environmentalist hunter right here *waves*

A proud member of Ducks Unlimited, too.

:)

[bleedingheart]

28. Howdy!

most hunters I know are the first to notice problems in the enviroment before anyone else is even aware....

Invasive weed species, dying pines....etc all noticed by hunter friends of mine before the conservation groups even noticed...

[Padraig18]

34. Yep, yep.

We also usually know where to find morel mushrooms in the spring, too.

:D

[yellowcanine]

If you like trees you don't want too many deer. Deer eat small trees so

they don't grow into big trees.

[bleedingheart]

43. Deer also eat my oakleaf hydrangeas

and dig up my hostas with their hooves to eat...

Personally I wouldn't mind getting a license to shoot the deer when they are in my yard...all I need is the permission of my neighbors on all sides and I can just start thinning out the suburban deer population that causes car accidents and destroys the local shrubbery...

One fellow done the street hasn't been able to get his new little trees to grow because the damn deer are eating them......

By the way I live in a 40 year old subdivision ...so it isn't like our plan has recently encroached upon their territory...

[yellowcanine]

46. One walked into the local Safeway. Right through the automatic doors.

Then it proceeded to slip and slide around on the tile floor until it finally injured itself and had to be destroyed. I guess deer aren't adapted to tile floors. Who would have thunk it?

[bleedingheart]

47. I am not well adapted to tile floors if I wear my fancy high heels

which is yet reason 103 that I don't wear them that often....

[yellowcanine]

49. Assuming you are female I would like to see you in your fancy high heels.

[mopinko]

19. we have to make our peace with the planet

but we are part of nature, and ought to be here. either 4 legged, or 2 legged hunters have to keep a lid on the population. the overpopulation is bad for the whole environment.
most of these government hunts send the meat to charities, at least around here.

[Beware the Beast Man]

20. It would be one thing if this was a canned hunt,

but deer overpopulation is a serious issue in suburban areas. I'm glad to know the meat is being donated to local food banks, this way some good will come out of it.

[RebelOne]

45. It might as well be a canned hunt.

The deer are being baited. So they are shot as they are eating. If you know anything about hunting, there is something called "fair chase." These animals don't even have the chance to run.

[HEyHEY]

21. We have them here, they're called "The Highway"

[johnnie]

23. And if you wait long enough in the summer

You get some mighty fine deer jerky out of it.

[bearfan454]

25. The County I hunt in is a 5 deer County. They even have an extended season

for Spikes and Does to make sure everybody gets 5. Nature's way of starving to death is worse. I love venison.

[johnnie]

27. Oh Man.....

Can I come over? :) I love venison also. That looks great.

[bearfan454]

50. There was a Super Bowl Party at GopIsEvil's house in Austin.

I took some of that and deer cubes wrapped in bacon with a jalapeno in the middle marinated and cooked over charcoal. It kicked ass.

[Jeff in Cincinnati]

30. Oh Man... (Part Two)

That's the kitchen counter of my dreams! Actually, I have venison thawing out for dinner tonight!

[amazona]

31. I am very supportive of deer control

The deer population is many times what it was in pre-colonial days on very much less area. Without control of deer population, we are sentencing entire ecosystems and I'm forgetting the number (it's thousands) of plant and shrub species to extinction. We are killing our entire understory.

As a bit of side karma, our refusal to control deer also kills plenty of humans. Isn't it Pennsylvania where 300-400 people are killed each year in auto accidents between humans and deer? The spread of Lyme disease is also linked to deer over-population. I am affected by this because a relative has permanent damage from Lyme disease.

Letting the deer population explode so far beyond normal healthy limits kills us, it kills our wildflowers and shrubs, it ultimately kills ecosystems.

Deer must be controlled. Wolves and mountain lion are not going to be roaming in any numbers in Pennsylvania, New Jersey, or Ohio any time soon, nor for the safety of humans would we want them to.

Hobby hunters do not seem to make a dent in deer over-population, probably because most believe it is wrong to take does!

Therefore we need professional and unsentimental deer control.

There will always be ignorant people who cry "Bambi" and who don't give a flying damn for all the other species, especially if they be plant species, that are killed by uncontrolled deer. I say ignore people who make arguments based on sentiment rather than science. The choice to control deer was not made easily, quickly, or cheaply.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Az]

37. According to my hunting father and other hunters I have talked to

The control program (sponsored by insurance companies) has destroyed the deer populations here in Michigan.

He spent the entire season sitting in the woods and didn't see a thing. Not only that but what usually sounds like a shoot out in the distance was dead silent this year.

[Redstone]

41. I hear there are not many deer in Vermont this year either

though nobody seems to know why. The moose are doing great, though.

In our state, we have WAY too many deer. I've never asked a deer its opinion, but I'd suspect they'd prefer a shorter life with lots of food for all of them and a quick end, rather than starving.

Redstone

[DelawareValleyDem]

44. I'm sure they would

I just think you're going to have trouble finding those willing to be shot for the rest.

[GumboYaYa]

39. I'm 100% in favor of expanding hunting season to cull

the deer population where it is overpopulated.

The only meat I will eat is wild meat. I had Elk Pot Roast for dinner last night. It is healthier for you, does not require significant energy investment, and does not result in significant pollution.