Should Pedophiles be imprisoned for life?

[imenja]

Poll question: Should Pedophiles be imprisoned for life?

Should pedophiles known to be repeat offenders be imprisoned for life?


This poll and question does NOT refer to STATUTORY RAPE.

[JohnKleeb]

1. Yes

[Dookus]

2. not as a general rule, no

I don't like automatic sentences. Every case is different.

Also, define pedophilia? Is a 18-year old guy who has sex with a 16-year old girl a pedophile?

[JohnKleeb]

8. no thats not pedophila

in my opinion at least.

[Dookus]

12. and then

we move to 19 and 15. And 20 and 14. Or 19 and 14. The definitions are too fluid.

I understand the idea that peole LOVE the idea of showing how much they dislike a crime by advocating strict penalties. It's why the Death Penalty is so popular. It's why we have a large number of so-called liberals rooting for prison rape. It's why we have the absurd idea posted below about creating an isolated island whereon we release pedophiles and serial killers.

I think it's possible to dislike crime as much as anybody else, and still think rational sentences are a good idea.

[imenja]

16. the law specifies such things

The charges one face differ according to the age of the victim. These distinctions are already built into the law. Pedophilia generally refers to those 12 and under.

[JohnKleeb]

17. Of course I believe in rational sentences too but I dont believe

in letting repeat offenders off easily.

[Dookus]

21. I've never once in my life

met anyone who advocated letting repeat offenders off easily.

[JohnKleeb]

26. I am just saying, how long would you sentance a repeat pedophile for

maybe 50 years perhaps?

[Dookus]

28. and *I'M* saying

that the question is silly on its face.

[JohnKleeb]

31. well youre asking about consenting sex that people get charged

with under statoury rape laws. I am just gonna drop it. I dont like the idea of mandatory life sentances much myself either.

[Dookus]

34. No

that's an example, and not everyone is charged under statutory rape laws.

The question I find silly on its face is what sentence do I think is appropriate for a non-specific case. I've said repeatedly here that automatic sentencing that doesnt' account for the individuality of each crime, crime victim and criminal is stupid. It's a result of our desire for easy answers regarding criminal justice. It's lazy.

[JohnKleeb]

36. Are you refering to things like three strikes you're out?

[Dookus]

40. Not specifically

but I do think 3 strikes laws are an abomination.

[JohnKleeb]

51. I do too

Its a bad idea. I agree with you how society feels the need for revenge too. We have to reform society, I dont believe the answer to crime is build more prisons.

[Amfortas]

58. Dookus....

I like how you think !

a rational voice in an irrational world .

[Dookus]

62. thanks

of course, below, I'm accused of defending child-rapists.

People are idiots.

[foxy]

23. My nephew is 19 and considered a pedofile

He slept with a girl that he thought to be 17 and found out her I.D. was fake and she was only 14. But she looked every bit of 17 or better.

So the judge sentensed him the max sentense he could to make him an example. Is this boy supposed to spend life in prison for this?

[Dookus]

25. According to some

that would be the easy course for him. Others would have him killed, castrated, or thrust onto a remote island with serial murderers.

This is why all attempts to base our criminal justice system on raw emotion are just stupid, and a mental exercise for the intellectually lazy.

[Zuni]

46. but that is not pedophilia

a true pedophile is one who is sexually impaired. They prey on children by preference, and pedophilia is about as easy to cure as homosexuality. (I am NOT equating the two. A pedophile is not a homosexual, even if attracted to the same sex. He is a pedophile and is attracted to pre-adolescent boys, not adult males)
Most true pedophiles are unable to stop because they are hopelessly addicted to children for sexual release, like a serial killer is addicted to killing for sexual gratification.

[Zuni]

32. not a true pedophile

a true pedophile is someone who preys on children by preference. They are serial offenders

[foxy]

48. Then why does he have to register every year as a pedofile?

The girls parents told the judge that they gave her permission to date my nephew and they knew they were having sex in the bedroom at night. They never told him how old she was either, they backed the girl up and said she was 17.
The problem is her grandparents they found out and turned it in.

[Zuni]

57. I am talking pyschologically

The court is wrong here. Technically, he committed statutory rape. A true pedophile wouldn't have wanted a girl who looked 17 or 18. They usually like 9-11 year old girls, or girls that are pre-adolescent and have not developed secondary sex charecteristics.

[imenja]

60. what was the charge?

Statutory rape or child molestation, endangerment? This thread was not about statutory rape. My understanding is that pedophilia is typically used to refer to molestation of children 12 or under.

[AntiCoup2K4]

72. Pardon the silly question here, but ....

Why would a 14 year old girl need a fake ID that says she's 17? To get into R-rated movies?? It doesn't seem logical that there would be enough value in a 17 year old fake ID to bother with.

And believe me, I'm not doubting the story. I actually know a guy who did time because of a 14 year old girl who said she was 21. And she also had the fake ID, as he met her in a bar. But then the advantages of an ID that says "21" would be obvious.

[autorank]

10. Probably not. 18-16 consenting, definitely not in almost all states.

If it's some old(er) fart who gets his jollies with children, that that's what we're looking for. They like what they do and justify it in elaborate arguments. They rarely change. But 18-16, consenting, not the same thing.

On edit: since I've been slammed into an answer by someone who had trouble reading my post. Let me elaborate. In every state, there is an age of consent which is often below 18. This is to prevent teenagers from being charged with having sex with each other. In those cases, you add 2-5 years to the age of consent and anyone having sex with those teenagers OLDER THAN A SPECIFIED NUMBER OF YEARS is considered as engaging in an illegal activity. It's different in each state. That was what I was referring to as 'consenting', the previous posters question about 18-16 year olds.

[JohnKleeb]

19. Thats what I mean too, if its some sick old guy who gets his joy

from school children, they shouldnt be really be considered for a second chance.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[imenja]

33. that is not pedophilia

that is statutory rape. Child molesters also claim the victim is consenting. They claim they love the child.

[Dookus]

39. you're making

a whole lot of blanket assertions. Not all crimes are the same, not all criminals are the same. You don't even assert that "most" or "many" do certain things... you say "all".

That is a perfect example of the kind of lazy thinking behind the original question.

[imenja]

54. good lord, I didn't think anyone would actually defend child molesters

Obviously not all criminals are the same, but child molestation is horrifying. I see no possible defense of it. Are you upset that I made blanket accusations against child molesters? Or because you are interpreting my response as an accusation against the previous poster? To make it clear, my comments were about the former. And I will not apologize for them. If you feel a need to defend people who destroy the lives of children, that is your problem. I will not.

[Name removed]

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[imenja]

64. it was a question

and I could have asked about the death penalty, only I don't support the death penalty. Yet if there is anything that makes me question that opposition is child rapists and murders.

I fully admit to being irrational on this topic. This is a crime that outrages me beyond at others.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

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[imenja]

70. so explain normal thinking to me

and then reread my post where I ask which part of my post you took objection to.

[Name removed]

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[imenja]

79. an attempt at clarification

My post: "Are you upset that I made blanket accusations against child molesters? Or because you are interpreting my response as an accusation against the previous poster? (the rest was in the event you were upset about the former) To make it clear, my comments were about the former. And I will not apologize for them. If you feel a need to defend people who destroy the lives of children, that is your problem. I will not."


I know I'm emotional on the subject. I don't see what's wrong with that. I find child molestation horrifying, terribly emotionally disturbing. I'm not a judge, a juror, or a prosecutor. I'm an outraged citizen who has every right to be upset and "emotional" on the subject.

You still haven't explained what you consider normal thinking on this issue.

[Zuni]

53. exactly

sex with a 16 year old girl and raping a little boy are two VERY different acts. Sleeping with a well developed 16 year old girl is not pedophilia. A pedophile looks for pre-adolescent or very early adolescents. Frequently, they are not attracted to adults at all.

[imenja]

81. I misunderstood this members post

and reacted in an emotional way that misconstrued his/ her intentions. I sincerely apologize for my comments.

[autorank]

47. Read my post and appologize. You mis read it. Thanks.

[autorank]

73. I'm waiting for an appology. I in no way implied or said what

you accused me of.

[imenja]

13. no, and it isn't prosecuted as such

In most states pedophilia pertains to children 12 or younger. The crime you describe is statutory rape, and that particular age discrepancy isn't a crime in all jurisdictions.

[Dookus]

18. My point is

any definition you come up with will allow some guilty people to go unpunished, and perhaps some not-so-guilty people to be punished.

But the whole idea is silly anyway. Automatic sentences that refuse to acknowledge any differences between crimes and criminals is stupid.

[imenja]

27. well, I'm not necessarily talking about automatic sentences

but there is a huge debate about whether repeat offenders should be on neighborhood watch lists of wear electronic identification once they are released. Their sentences are typically low: 8 to 12 years. If there is such concern they will re-offend, why not keep them locked up? Apparently very few pedophiles reform their behavior and stop their activity. It's a compulsion. Each convicted pedophile has destroyed the lives of dozens of children. They virtually have just one victim.

[Zuni]

66. very true

I am with you in the case of serial offenders---people who are unwilling or unable to stop their predatory crimes.

Most true pedophiles are not likely to be 'cured' of their sexual deviency.

[Zuni]

35. not pedophilia

a pedophile is a person who preys on pre-pubescent or early adolescents by preference. They are diseased and are serial offenders. Often, like a serial killer or a rapist, they are unable to quit.

[candle_bright]

55. The answer is

an 18 year old having sex with or otherwise molesting an under 18 year old is a felony.

That is the law.

I don't think the OP's question was splitting that hair though.

You want to split hairs, so where do YOU think the line should be drawn on what is pedophilia and what isn't? Be specific in terms of what age(s) are acceptable, for both the perpetrator and the victim.

[Dookus]

75. I'm not going to draw lines

because I think doing so is stupid.

When you consider that people undergo puberty anywhere from 9 to 16 years old, there is NO one single age at which you can claim sexual attraction is either pedophilia or is not.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. What a great thread to liven up the otherwise dull lounge.

But perhaps it's a topic a bit too light for the weighty matters we generally discuss in here.

[sundog]

7. no shit... anyone got a match? some gas?

[autorank]

4. Yes.

I heard a good suggestion. We should get a large island and exile convicted pedophiles and serial killers. We could drop some supplies in every now and then and set it up for a self-sustaining economy.

What do you think?

[Hatalles]

5. Hm... *repeat offenders* is the key word.

I'll go with yes.

[Deja Q]

6. I'd been molested by two pedophiles. I say NO. Here's the issue:

Pedophilia will not be resolved by chucking a guy into prison for a few years.

Chopping off the goolies will.

May as well keep people productive in our society, I think that's the phrase people use though they don't bother to realize that "productivity" is a many splintered word; our country is about the acquisition of money and not production or self-sufficiency; our need for foreign energy, foreign workers, foreign everything so a few can get richer is damning proof.

[candle_bright]

14. Throw them in prison for life

they can be productive from their cells. We need license plates, after all. Maybe they could particpate in similar non-contact tasks that could benefit society without their reachy, lecherous tentacles screwing up innocent children's lives.

[imenja]

29. prison keeps them from harming other children

it doesn't solve the societal problem. It only protects those the creep hasn't yet gotten to.

[Deja Q]

45. But if it's said that whacking off the marbles resolves the problem,

and they've proven to be reformed, why still lock them up?

[Dookus]

49. Castration

is not a cure-all for sex crimes. People inclined to sexual violence can and often do still commit sexual violence even without functioning testicles.

There is no easy answer. Attempts to find one are doomed to fail. But it makes some people feel better about themselves, I suppose.

[imenja]

77. you know it doesn't always

Some take chemical testosterone to replace what their body would normally produce. Also, courts consider castration cruel and unusual punishment.

[bloodyjack]

9. Silly thread topic

[imenja]

11. as opposed to soy milk?

Please

[Dookus]

15. I think the point is

that the lounge is not the place for serious topics of a political nature.

[imenja]

42. fair enough

when people stop responding it will drop to the bottom

[RevolutionaryActs]

56. People won't stop responding

Until this thread gets locked.

[RevolutionaryActs]

22. It's "silly" in the sense that this will turn into a flamefest.

And how dare you bring up one of my threads, this is the lounge not GD. Copycats and other silly things are we do here.

[imenja]

41. I never imagined it would be so controversial

It didn't occur to me that anyone would actually defend pedophiles. If people stop responding it will drop to the bottom.

[Dookus]

43. Another example

of lazy thinking.

"...people would actually defend pedophiles."

Nobody's done any damn such thing here.

[RevolutionaryActs]

50. I don't think people are "defending" pedophiles, they are pointing

out that this subject is not so black and white as you make it out to be. It varies from case to case.

And this is flamebait.

[imenja]

68. it is not flame bait

If people choose to use it as such, that is their own responsibility. I asked a legitimate question.

[RevolutionaryActs]

78. Alright, maybe not flamebait, but it is inflammatory.

There have been threads on this subject before, that have turned into flamefests.

And the title is very black and white, this is not a black and white issue, which means your title will invoke strong passions and thoughts.

[JohnKleeb]

61. Not defending, they just have a different approach to reducing crime

I guess. The idea of mandatory sentances is unconstiutional and wrong to some I guess.

[bloodyjack]

30. It's like starting a thread entitled "Maybe Hitler was just misunderstood?

It is guaranteed to be too emotionally charged, and, in addition, nobody likes pedophiles.

Also I don't recall ever starting a thread about soy milk

[imenja]

37. there are six milk threads in the lounge now

yet you claim my thread is silly? Obviously it is a real issue that effects millions of people. If you read the responses, you'll see there is a great range of opinion on the subject.

[Dookus]

44. Your thread is not silly

it's just not appropriate for the lounge.

[imenja]

74. if anyone knows how to move it, feel free

[bloodyjack]

52. "it is a real issue that effects millions of people"

Then I feel this thread is out of place in the Lounge

The Lounge is about gross pictures and crude jokes, not dialectics

[imenja]

71. okay

[Philosophy]

38. Then where do you draw the line?

Who else should we incarerate for life? Rapists? Thieves? The morally deficient? Political opponents?

[Zuni]

63. Violent criminal who are likely to be repeat offenders

rapists and murderers who are not likely to be reformed (sociopaths) and people whose crimes are especially horrific. Mainly sociopaths---violent individuals who have little chance of reform, people with no conscience who prey on the weak for sexual or emotional gratification.

[JohnKleeb]

67. Thats how I feel but I in retrospect am not sure

I dont like the idea of mandatory sentances but I guess here's how I'd do it, sentance the pedophile to like maybe 40-50 years in jail with the possiblity for parole like after 30-40 years.

[DBoon]

65. No but...

In the worst cases, they should be required as a condition of living in outside society that they not have regular contact with children, through a job or avocation.

Prison is for punishment of evil acts, for which the evil doer then choses not to perform those acts. Evil means consciously chosen. I don't think most pedophiles have a choice as to their orientation. Thier sexual attraction to chilren isn't something they chose, it is a more or less permanant feature of who they are. Given that children are uniquely vulnerable, legal means to keep them away from children are OK with me.

[Amfortas]

80. People....

Pedophiles are SICK people ... they need medical treatment ! it's a very complex issue , should we put then in psychiatric wards all there lives until we are sure they are cured ? or should we put them in jail ... either way we should protect innocent victims from them , and also in a way protect them from themselves ....

tough issue , and I'm too lazy to tackle it right now.

[Moderator]

82. Locking

This has turned into a flame fest.