'I Believe God Brought Him to My Door' - Ga. Woman Taken Hostage

[NNN0LHI]

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGB0VNDIA6E.html

ATLANTA (AP) - For hours, Ashley Smith gently talked to the armed suspect in Atlanta's courthouse slayings, turning from hostage to confidant as they discussed God, family, pancakes and the massive manhunt going on outside her apartment.

"I believe God brought him to my door," Smith said Sunday, only hours after her 911 call ended a manhunt for Brian Nichols, who is accused of shooting four people since Friday.

Over the course of the night, Nichols untied Smith, and some of the fear lessened as they talked. Nichols told Smith he felt like "he was already dead," but Smith urged him to consider the fact that he was still alive a "miracle."

"You're here in my apartment for some reason," she told him, saying he might be destined to be caught and to spread the word of God to fellow prisoners. She told him his escape from authorities had been a "miracle."

more

This is one of the bravest people (man or woman) I have known of in my life. We will never know how many lives she saved by being level headed enough to get through this nightmare. I am really impressed. I only hope I would be able to make it through what she did as well in a situation like this. But I doubt very much that I could. My hat is off to her.

[okieinpain]

1. i'll give her that. that was way better then crying and screaming.

[ClintonTyree]

2. Maybe god should have...............

stopped this asshole altogether instead of sending him to her door after he'd killed everyone. Just a thought.

[Zenlitened]

14. God does seem to operate with an unnecessarily high attrition rate.

:shrug:

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. those people who dance with rattlesnakes are brave too

doesn't mean they're right.

God didn't bring him to her door. His pathetic fleaing from the police did.

God didn't want him to spread his word to other prisoners. She wants him to.

This fuckface shot and killed, what, four people? Like God wants anything to do with him?

Its good she didn't get hurt, but if she really meant what she told him then she's a pretty messed-up woman herself.

[Bertha Venation]

19. She ain't messed up, Rat. She did two things, as I see it:

She stayed consistent to her faith. Nothing wrong with that.

She stayed alive. Thinking about my loved ones, there's not much I wouldn't do to stay alive in a similar situation.

[NNN0LHI]

40. Apples and Oranges MR

Snake handlers make their own decision to play with snakes. This woman did not choose this to happen to her. She just made the best of a very bad situation.

Don

[ScreamingMeemie]

4. Come on. Quit knocking this woman for her faith. She did a brave thing.

And should be commended for it...not mocked. I'm amazed. If God got her through...then kudos to them both. :hi:

[NNN0LHI]

5. Was that (Quit knocking this woman for her faith) for me? n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. No, not at all. I'm a doofus when it comes to replying sometimes.

I was replying to the others who stated that God should have not let it happen in the first place.

[NNN0LHI]

9. I'm a doofus too. No worries. Take care and see you later n/t

[peekaloo]

8. I was about to post the same thing. Thank you for saying it.

It may have been one of the few times in his wretched life that someone treated him as a fellow human being.

[johnnie]

7. Brave?

Not to be a dick, but I would have been saying a lot of things to save my ass too. I'm glad she is alive and all, and yes, she seemed to have kept her cool, but I wouldn't go as far to say that she is a hero.

[nuxvomica]

10. She exhibited grace under pressure

That sounds kinda heroic to me.

[imenja]

15. Did you listen to her?

If you did, I don't think you'd be saying this. She is far from an ordinary human being. What she has is not so much bravery but a remarkable sense of compassion and humanity. I know that I would not have handled the situation nearly as well as she did. I think very few of us would have.

[johnnie]

24. I didn't listen to her

I know some people like her, but I agree... a lot of people would freak out. Too many people are too self-absorbed to have compassion for another person. It's sad.

[imenja]

28. if you can catch the conference replayed, check it out

It's a lesson for all of us, irrespective of religions beliefs. If you are uncomfortable with religion, I suggest simply ignoring those references. What struck me as important was her humanity and strength. She presented a view of this man that we would never have gotten otherwise.

[johnnie]

39. I have no problem with religion

I'm also not putting this woman down for her actions or what she said. I am typically a very compassionate person and I believe that every person should be entitled to a fair amount of compassion.
I do have to say though that this guy deserves very little compassion for what he did. I wonder how this woman would have reacted if it was her daughter that this guy beat, raped and sodomized. Or if it was her husband, sister or brother that this guy pistol whipped or shot in cold blood.
Chances are she did save some lives by talking this guy into giving himself up. Any means that she used is to be commended and once again, I have nothing bad to say about this woman. I don't know how I would have reacted in her situation, but I would think that I would have done pretty much the same thing she did.

[imenja]

11. Did you listen to her press conference?

She really is a remarkable woman, far more patient and forgiving than the great majority of us. Her sense of calm in the situation was astounding. It was she who talked Nichols into surrendering, not an FBI negotiator or the police. I don't see anything to make fun of here. If we all had her sense of humanity, the world would be a far better place. I admire her greatly.

[ScreamingMeemie]

13. I've got to agree. The part where she told him he wasn't dead.

That he was standing right in front of her. This to me exhibits more than just trying to save herself. :hi:

[jarab]

12. Agree with your comment, Don ...

Lives were quite likely saved by her actions.
I admire her for her bravery.
...O...

[NNN0LHI]

16. I would have been about as useful as a bowl of Jello in that situation n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

17. Agreed. The part where she told him of her husband being dead and her

daughter needing her. Amazing.

[DS1]

18. Oh man. God had some people killed so this guy could preach the

word to his fellow prisoners?

[imenja]

20. ???

what? How does this relate to the situation?

He's not preaching to anyone. Also, he's getting the death penalty. He won't have contact with fellow prisoners.

[vi5]

22. Did you read this quote in the original post...

"You're here in my apartment for some reason," she told him, saying he might be destined to be caught and to spread the word of God to fellow prisoners.

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with the poster you responded to, but they also didn't pull that line or notion out of their keester either. They were clearly commenting on a line from the article that the original poster felt was important enough to include in his attached snippet.

[imenja]

25. I see

I listened to the press conference as she gave it. I think it's a bit closed minded of people to condemn this woman because she is religious. She is a remarkable person. I wish people would think a bit about her humanity and compassion rather than than automatically responding negatively to anyone who mentions God. If all Christians, atheists, and others had some of her qualities, the world would be a much better place. Does it really matter what she draws upon to summon that kind of strength?

[vi5]

27. I'm not disagreeing with you on that point....

...but you called out a poster and reacted as though he made up what he said or pulled it out of left field, when it was included right there in the original post. I just felt that was unfair.

I agree the woman was brave and wherever she summoned that bravery from is o.k. But I do find it absurd that ANYONE would imply that god had a guy go into a church and kill people so that he could spread the message to others. And brave or not, that is EXACTLY what she said. I find that kind of offensive to the people who were killed.

[imenja]

31. not calling him out as much as not getting his point

but I stand corrected.

She did not imply that made him kill others. The murders were in a court house, not a church. You don't seem to understand the Christian notions of free will and forgiveness, which is fine, you don't need to. But misconstruing it isn't helpful.

[vi5]

33. Sorry, I was mixing up my shootings....

I wish someone would explain the notion to me though. If we have free will then we are all as humans responsible for what goes on here and for our actions, correct? I'm o.k. with that. But if god has a "plan" then doesn't that imply that he CAN get involved? If not how does this plan and purpose get enacted?

I just don't like the picking and choosing as to what is gods bidding and what is free will.

Believe me, I was raised Christian and tried to understand it for 20 years.

[imenja]

37. it's not picking and choosing

You're not understanding the concept. I suggest you pose the question in the religion and theology forum where those more knowledgeable on the subject can better explain it.
I believe there are some ministers there who know a fair bit about theology.

[vi5]

43. But I'm not posing the question....

...I'm not the one trying to turn this into a theology discussion. All the poster you responded to (and I defended) was saying was that for her to say what she said could be conceived as being insensitive to those who died and even insensitive to those who believe that god wouldn't "destine" someone to kill people.

[imenja]

46. I very much doubt it

not if they heard her speak.

[DS1]

38. My point was that sometimes the events that people mold their

God around are sometimes stunningly inane.

I very much doubt God had this guy off a small handful of people so His word could be spread throughout the clink.

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. No. A woman showed compassion toward a fellow human being, and

amazing levelheadedness under pressure. :hi:

[VelmaD]

23. I have EXTREME mixed feelings about this...

part of me is impressed with her level-headedness under pressure. But part of me would like to smack her for being unintentionally insensitive. If she really believes god directed that man to her door...then she also has to believe that he intended for all those people he killed to suffer horrible deaths. If some of us are picking that up from what she said then you have to figure some of his victims' families will as well.

[imenja]

26. no she doesn't have to believe that

not at all. Christians believe that God gives people free will, and they decide how to comport themselves accordingly. Human agency is not nearly as simple as you suggest.

[vi5]

29. But if you believe god had a plan and a reason for this guy

doing this...which she says she does...then one has to accept that he had the plan for the bad as well. You can't pick and choose which parts were gods will and which ones weren't, can you?

[imenja]

32. not true

that's not how Christians conceive of God's hand in guiding our lives. Again, the central notion is Free will. God is a source of goodness and strength. They don't believe he causes evil acts. Rather, humans by virtue of their free will make unfortunate choices to commit such crimes. Yet we still have the opportunity to repent and find forgiveness because of God's love. Is that really such a terrible notion?

[vi5]

41. I'm all for forgiveness and redemption....

I believe people can redeem themselves and if they do should be forgiven. But I come to this notion from a human perspective not a religious one. I never said anything about her forgiving him. I'm fine with that.

I'm pointing out my issue with her or anyone saying that he was "destined" to kill these people so that he could preach to people in prison.

My issue in this thread has nothing to do with the notion of Christian forgiveness or redemption. It has to do with her implying (which she most definitely did) that what he did was in some way destiny or part of god's plan.

I think you're looking for Christian bashing where there is none. I just think that despite her bravery, what she said and what she implied was extremely insensitive to the people who were killed. That is the only point of this portion of the thread.

[imenja]

42. no, I very much doubt she believes that

It centers on the idea of free will. If you want to know more, post a question in the theology forum for people more knowledgeable to answer.

[progmom]

48. Where did she say that the shooter was destined to kill those people?

I haven't been able to find that in the transcripts anywhere...

[ScreamingMeemie]

49. Exactly...all I could find was this...

""I honestly think when I looked at him that he didn't want to do it anymore," Smith said. If he did not give up, she told him, "Lots more people are probably going get hurt and you're probably going to die."

:shrug: I still give her kudos.

[progmom]

51. I'm really touched by her story.

She's a really impressive woman, full of grace.

[vi5]

50. In this line.....it's included in the original post....

"You're here in my apartment for some reason," she told him, saying he might be destined to be caught and to spread the word of God to fellow prisoners. She told him his escape from authorities had been a "miracle."

I understand that she was saying what she needed to keep herself alive. I'm not criticizing this woman AT ALL. Simply pointing out when someone responded to the original post and pointing out that line with a bit of confusion, people responded as though she never said that and he was making it up. I felt that was a little unfair. People are acting like this is being pulled from out of nowhere or being made up. That's what's bothering me about this. Not that she's faithful or christian or that she's not brave or any of that. I agree with all of it. But when someone responded to the original post and pointing out that line with a bit of confusion, people responded as though she never said that and he was making it up. I felt that was a little unfair.

[imenja]

53. she wasn't just saying it to stay alive

That is what is so remarkable about her. She was effective with this man because she actually cared about his life, because she cared about who he was as a person. She wasn't mouthing platitudes. If she had, he would have known it and she likely wouldn't have been able to persuade him to give up.

To say that she believe God brought him to her door means that she thought she could help him. It does not mean he believes God moved him to kill those people. I guess there are some things about faith that unbelievers don't understand. What I would ask is that you would simply acknowledge that rather than insisting you know something that you don't. You assume she believes God instructed the man to kill people. She did not say that and I very much doubt she believes that. It's clear to me their her vision of Christianity is one of love and compassion. Simply accept that she has those qualities and don't worry so much about the fact that it is religion that underlies her actions. The important point is that she is a woman who acted with great compassion and humanity. She said much more than these words in her quite long statement. Let's not make a villain out of a woman who treated this man with rare dignity.

[madrchsod]

35. that is really a

leap of faith to state that god intended those people to be killed...she believes god sent him to her house to save the man from doing more harm and to give him god`s word...if that is what she believes and her faith was so strong to stop him from more killing then she really is a christian and i personally see nothing wrong with her or what she did. we need more people such as her certainly not less

[Zenlitened]

47. Agree. There's always an element of insensitivity to statements like that

If god performed a "miracle" to allow the man to escape the court house, if god led the man to her house... then why did god allow the killings to happen in the first place?

That's a separate question from what faith means to a person, how she used her faith to get through the situation. But people will conflate the issues, it seems, in an effort to dodge the question, difficult as it is.

[underpants]

30. Oh cripes why did I know this was going to be on DU today

For crying out loud people whether you like it or not or if you understand it for a lot of people faith is extremely important and part of their everyday life. Whatever reason she gives for getting through that situation she got through it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

34. Thank you underpants.

:hi:

[BlondieK143]

36. Couldn't have said it better.

:)

[da_chimperor]

44. That's really impressive. Mega-kudos to her. n/t

[CottonBear]

45. Two points:

1.) Her lawyer said that she did not, at first, know that he had killed the judge, court reporter and the deputy. I think that she did know that he'd killed the customs agent. She had just moved into a new home and I don't believe that she'd kept up with the news that day. She did watch TV with the suspect on Saturday morning.

2.) Her husband was murdered 4 years ago. He died in her arms after he had been stabbed to death. She was not comfortable talking about this so she just said that he died four years ago.

3.) My stepdaughter lives in the town where this woman lives. This brave woman kept him from possibly killing more people. He could have gone to my stepdaughter's home.

:scared:

[Lerkfish]

52. Hey, if she'd been buddhist, and credited her religion for staying calm

and focused, would that have been BAD or EVIL?

she did an amazing thing: staying graceful under extreme pressure...not sure many of us could or would have. kudos to her.

If she finds some solace in her faith, more power to her.
If she was muslim, or jewish or atheist, and felt her personal world view allowed her to remain calm, I'd say more power to her...whatever worked for her, in that situation.


I'm saddened to see that some people's disdain of religion allows them to dump on this woman needlessly.

I'm a christian, and I wouldn't have said exactly what she said, but I would also have drawn on whatever faith I had to get through.

Why does this offend people?

[tjdee]

54. Because of the "what about the other people" issue....

I'm a (very very liberal) Christian too, and it irks some people because they feel she's inadvertently saying suck eggs all you people who were killed, because now he's going to preach the word in jail!

I don't believe that's the case. I believe that *she* feels he came to her house for a reason, and if convincing him that he could share God with others, or that he deserved to pay for his crimes, or that pigs will fly out of his butt...if her convincing caused him to turn himself in, then great!