Rant: if fat and queer are frowned on, why is "fat!" good and "gay" bad?

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

Like when a teenager says "fat!", it's approval, and "that's so gay", it means, it's disapproval? (So I guess if any group can claim to be more victimized, it's gays. :D )

[tjdee]

1. Because they're saying phat, which has nothing to do with Fat.

I am not sure where it came from, but I have never even considered that it came from Fat as in overweight until this moment....and I don't think it does anyway.

AHA! Found this:
" Early slang lexicographers B. E. Gent in the 17th century, Francis Grose in the 18th century, and John Camden Hotten n the 19th century all define 'fat' as a slang term for 'rich.' That meaning survives in the 19th century in the slang of gamblers and African-Americans."

but also "for example, "an August 2, 1963, article on 'Negro argot' in 'Time,' one finds 'phat' listed as one of several 'adjectives of approval.'" One researcher recorded the use of "phat" in 1973 and didn't see the spelling again until 1981.""
http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/19/messages/842.html

[mcscajun]

2. Here's what Wiki says...

...but as they're not really a DEFINITIVE authority on anything, take it all with a grain of salt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phat

[tjdee]

4. Well yeah...

Either way, LOL, it doesn't seem have so much to do with overweight, as the OP was indicating....

[mcscajun]

6. Nope, not a bit.

But it sure did confuse the hell out of this ol' fat lady when it first started 'making the rounds'.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

3. I suppose - makes sense - but couldn't you say that about gay?

And in pre-modern times, it actually MEANT happy or mirthful.

Maybe misspelling fat as "phat" is deliberate, meaning, "fat" is not cool, but if you misspell and say it means something similar but not identical, then it's okay. The mind boggles. :D

[tjdee]

5. Hmm...that is true I guess....

how did gay get to ....gay?

[mcscajun]

7. Damned if I know...

...and I'm sure somewhere out there, there's a linguist who's digging in to the etymological origin of current teen slang. It's always good for a paper or two.


Best guess, though, is that it's an extrapolation from the schoolyard perception of "gay" being "unacceptable" and traveling outward from there.

[khashka]

8. It has an interesting history

Gay, meaning homosexual, has been around since Elizabethan times. Originally, it referred to prostitutes and did so up until about the 1930's. Oddly, a lot of prostitute words and gay words are the same, like "in the life". Or maybe not so oddly.

If the subject interests you, check out Judy Grahn's "Another Mother Tongue" - it examines how words like "gay", "queer", "dyke" originated and developed over time.

Khash.

[sakabatou]

9. Being fat is not against the fundies

[no name no slogan]

10. i believe it's "phat"

phonetically identical to "fat", but spelled differently.

just like how "bad" means "good", as in Michael Jackson singing "I'm BAD, I'm BAD, jamoh".

on second thought, icksnay that last line

[El Fuego]

11. I thought "phat" meant "Pretty Hot And Tempting"

[trof]

12. I remember "fat city!".

In the 60s-70s?
Meant really really GOOD.
You had it made.
Maybe even in the shade.

[Placebo]

13. I'm a fat queer...

I'm literally bottom of the barrel.

[ladeuxiemevoiture]

14. My sympathies.

:D