OMG! I can play vinyl again!!!!!!

[Rabrrrrrr]

YES! What a gorgeous sound it has...

I remember when CDs first came out, I thought people were crazy who said they could tell a difference in sound (beyond the obvious lack of pops and cracks and etc.).

But as I've gotten older, and my ear trained better, I think there IS a quality difference - the vinyl DOES have a warmer, more natural sound to it.

Thanks to the DUers who helped me figure out my turntable.

First album on the new turntable? Dark Side of the Moon! I'm so glad that the box of records I randomly opened up yielded at least two Floyd albums. It also yielded a robert plant album, a sibelius symphony, and a recording of Pope John Paul II from what must be the early 80s.

Of coruse, now this means I have to unbox all my vinyl (some 700-800 or so) and find a place to store/display them...

I'm so excited!!!!! I haven't played any of these since 1992!!

[Beaverhausen]

1. We put Yes' Close to the Edge on the turntable the other day

I agree about the warmth in the sound.

We had just gotten the LP autographed by Jon Anderson the night before!

:hi:

[Sequoia]

22. That was the first album I had!

I have a box of LPs, I just need a turntable.

[djeseru]

2. Congrats!

You sound like me when I got my turntable back in 2001 - I hadn't listened to any of my vinyl since 1994! I still haven't figured out where to store them all yet...they've been in closets for the past decade.

[Call Me Wesley]

3. It does have a warmer, more natural sound.

Every audiophile I know (and I konw a lot of them) still consider the turntable and old vinyl records as their main musical experience.

[Left Is Write]

4. I love love love my record player.

I have three, actually, but the one I use is the record player in my 1964 Magnavox console stereo. There is nothing like it. Especially if the records are Frank or Dean.

[flamingyouth]

5. I love my turntable.

I play it all the time. I still have lots and lots of records.

[Carla in Ca]

37. Me, too

I just got a new one a few years ago. One thing a CD does not have is the album art. A lot of people don't realize what they are missing. The art was everything, not to mention the lyrics on the inside or on the jackets. Every time I play Abbey Road, I think about the endless hours of discussion my friends and I had about the cover. Good memories, great music.

[Rabrrrrrr]

39. And I often wonder, What do kids clean their pot with nowadays?

The albums had the great art - and sometimes came with posters and stickers and other cool things - but the ones that hold a fold in them were the ultimate and most wonderfully perfect tool for seed elimination.

What the hell are the college kids using today? Or are they so spoiled, that their dope comes seed free nowadays?

[Carla in Ca]

40. LOL...I wouldn't doubt it!

They've got nothing on us!:hippie:

[johnnie]

6. I set mine up in the attic room

The floor shakes when I walk on it so I can't play any records right now. I need to find a way to suspend it or something.

My nephew called me a few weeks ago (he is 16) and he was excited that he got a record player..lol, but it is running slow. I have to go there and see if I can replace the belt.

[Oeditpus Rex]

7. I'm convinced that CDs

and/or CD players are biased on the highs and lows, thus giving the impression of "full" sound, since the average human ear doesn't pick up high treble and low bass very well.

LPs seem to bring out more of the mids, which are what really fill a room.

Of course, it all depends on your system.

[Rabrrrrrr]

10. And I think the high end harmonics get cut out of the CDs

I know that the Nyquist rate is high enough that high harmonics that are still within hearing range get sampled on a CD, but either albums offer those frequencies better than CDs, or albums offer high pitch sounds that, while inaudible to the human ear, might still have some sort of effect on us subconsciously.

[Kellanved]

15. IMHO it all depends on the CD in question

Well mastered CDs are superior to LPs, but most CDs are not well mastered, showing the effect you describe.

[noonwitch]

16. CDs are great for classical music

I think that classical music sounds better on cd, especially orchestral music, because the format picks up all the sounds. Rock sounds better on LPs because you can play LPs louder than discs, or at least, that's the one main difference I've noticed between the two.

[LynneSin]

8. I'm up to 500 vinyl records

I was looking at a condo to buy yesterday that was in a beautiful victorian home with a fireplace. But the place was a bit small and all I could think was where could I setup my Record player and put all my vinyl records

[Rabrrrrrr]

9. Now I've pulled out an old Varese album, from 1972

:woohoo:

Playing Octandre now.

The album is old enough that the liner sleeve has an ad for WILLIAM Carlos' Bach album.

:7

[wildhorses]

11. Lucky you ... I am jealous

Enjoy...

[underpants]

12. TIP: get some cinder blocks and some plywood

use these items to make shelving.

I have seen it work before.

[Rabrrrrrr]

13. That's exactly what I was thinking!

The boxes of albums are now in my hallway... so I thought, well, they're already there, why not get some cinder blocks and boards and keep them there...

[Spike from MN]

14. Welcome to the world of vinyl!

I have always preferred the sound of vinyl and have never been without a turntable. Well, until late last summer that is. My turntable went into the shop for repair and the guys at Linn were taking their sweet time repairing it. I was going nuts having to listen to CDs because I just can't stand the digital sound. I finally couldn't take it anymore. I broke down and ordered a new 'table and tonearm. (A Basis 2000 with a Vector 1 arm. Screw Linn.) As it happens, I was shopping for a car around the same time and I spent less on the car so I could spend more on the 'table. Ha! Priorities ya know. ;) Turns out it was a good call because the new 'table is sweet and I STILL haven't heard back from Linn regarding my old 'table. Bastards.

Suggested first upgrade: vacuum-type record cleaning machine. Best sound improvement per dollar I have ever spent on my system. Here's a link for an example:

http://tinyurl.com/ojvao

Or you can make your own:

http://www.teresaudio.com/haven/cleaner/cleaner.html

Here's my routine:

All additions to my collection, new or used, are cleaned on the record cleaner before they ever hit the turntable. If both sides are good* and the album is a "keeper," I then apply LAST record preservative. (Some suggest that after applying the preservative, you should do another vacuum cleaning using Record Research Lab Super Vinyl Wash but I haven't tried that product yet so I can't really comment on it.) I replace the crappy inner sleeves with poly-lined ones and put the album in a protective plastic sleeve. Yeah, it's a bit of work but it's well worth it. I also clean the stylus with a stylus cleaner every few albums or so, depending. Some say to clean the stylus every album and others say clean it once a week, once a month, etc. so I believe the jury is still out on that one.

*I never flip an album over and play the other side after one side finishes. I always wait at least a day. The reason for this is that the friction of the stylus in effect momentarily melts the vinyl as it passes over it. Waiting 24 hours before playing the record again gives the vinyl time to "reform" to its original state.

Aside from the sound, one of the other advantages of vinyl is the bargains you can find at the used record shops. Unfortunately, vinyl has become popular again in recent years so the prices have gone up a bit but you can still find some good deals. There are also sources for new vinyl but it's not always cheap. Here's a couple of links to get you started.

http://www.amusicdirect.com/products/category.asp?category=1030

http://www.elusivedisc.com/products.asp?dept=979

A google search will turn up tons of sources. Vinyl is definitely not dead. Nice to see people coming back around to the way music was intended to be played. ;)

[hunter]

17. LPs distort music in a way that is pleasing to the ear.

Same with vacuum tube amplifiers.

The "RIAA curve" used on vinyl records is a kind of electronic compression that allows more music to be put on a record. Without any sort of compression a vinyl LP might hold only as much music as a 45 because the lower frequencies (bass) would take up more room on the record than is required for their satisfactory reproduction. The RIAA curve evolved after many years of very intense engineering and experimentation; before this other sorts of compression were used that did not work as well, or sound as sweet.

For many kinds of popular music a vinyl record can actually sound better than the original master tape, and many recording engineers were very, very good at taking advantage of this effect.

CD's made from master tapes that were made for vinyl do not reproduce what the original recording engineers intended, even when the re-recording engineers making the new CD master account for this. Digital equipment can come very close to modeling the behavior of old analog recording equipment, but it can never be perfect. To a certain extent every piece of analog recording eqipment was unique, and every recording engineer had a unique way of using it. It is very much comparable to a musician and her own musical instruments. Nobody else can perfectly reproduce that musicians sound. They can play the exact same music, but it still won't sound the same.

[jpgray]

19. Yep

:patriot:

[eyepaddle]

26. Here's a compression related question:

Is there a difference in sound quality between a 45 rpm and 33 1/3? It would seem that the 45 allows more length of groove/time unit and might be superior. And who knows about 78s? Although I'd imagine there are few 78s in pristine condition, as well as the primitive equipment they were originally recorded on.

I once rented a house that had an old crank-up victrola and a bunch of crackly 78s left behind by the previous owners. The sound was terrible; hissy, distant and crackly--but nonetheless extremely cool, even if just for the sense of history it gave. (By the way, before the house became a rental property it was a whorehouse in the Winona riverfront's famed red-light district!)

My questions are largely academic as I am a ways off from being able to invest meaningful cash into any audio equipment, and CDs do get me by.

[hunter]

27. Theoretically yes.

Practically speaking, probably not.

Just for fun you can calculate the linear velocity of the outside groove of a 33 1/3 RPM record as compared to the inside groove, and then compare those numbers to a 45 RPM record...

The outside track of a 33 1/3 record should have the best quality simply because there is more track passing beneath the needle, and thus a greater amount of information being transferred.

The 78 RPM standard was set in the days when phonographs didn't have amplifiers. The needle was attached directly to the diaphragm that made the music you heard. The record had to spin fast simply to provide enough energy for an adequate acoustic volume. But there were two limits to this approach: The size of the record, and the mass of the needle / diaphragm combination. Turn a record too fast and it wouldn't hold much music, or else the wildly gyrating needle would jump track.

With electronic amplification the mass of the mechanical components could be vastly reduced, and the recording was more limited by the size of the groove the vinyl or other disk material would reliably hold. The ultimate expression of this miniturization of electromechanical recording technology was the old RCA SelectaVision VideoDisc system. Fundamentally these were mechanical recordings that played video in the same way records played music.

[maxsolomon]

18. my new CD player sounds purty gud tho

linn genki.

once you go high end the sounds warms up perceptably.

thus sayeth the owner of 1000 LP's.

[LaurenG]

20. How did you finally get the turn table to work correctly?

It was a very complicated discussion you were having but I caught that you may replace the cartridge or attach the ground wire. Was it either of those things? I am curious, for future reference.

Congratulations to you as well. I lost most of my albums in the divorce but like you haven't heard any of those left since 1992.

[Rabrrrrrr]

31. I tried the spare cartridge (which I should have done before posting)

and it worked fine, letting me know that the problem was the first cartridge, which is shit.

A lot of questions and dicking around for what became a 7-second solution (with apologies to Sherlock Holmes).

[jpgray]

21. It depends on the music

For example I love Iggy's CD remaster of Raw Power about 800,000 times more than I love the original Bowie-mixed LP.

[ksilvas]

23. Welcome back to the land of Audiophile Luddites, Viva Vinyl. n/t

[LeftHander]

24. Revinyled my room....i love it.

Pioneer Turntable and Reciever, AR speakers...

Sweet.

Albums recently spun...

Billy Preston Wildest Organ In Town - 1966
Pretenders II
The Cars
Suzzanne VEga
ZZ Top's 2nd (one with La Grange)...can't recall the name right now.


Small collection of records. Jazz, classical, late 60's early 70's rock. Punk.

[Gold Metal Flake]

25. Well, now it's time to get you into some nice tube amps and Altec drivers.

And then the transformation will be complete. Got floor space?



While searching for an A5 pix I found this interesting site:

http://www.geocities.com/ec1288/index.html

Check the DIY page. The Audio Note Ongaku amp is one I was interested years ago before I moved into a house with little space for Altecs. I eventually developed a circuit for a push-pull 845 amp using output transformers from old mono Fisher 500 receivers. I still have the receivers, and eventually I'll build something.

[hunter]

28. I love vacuum tubes...

... but I recognize it as a peculiar form of insanity.

I used to love fixing people's televisions by replacing tubes. I wanted my own tube tester. Once my grandfather gave me a huge box of old tubes and I spent hours down at the local hardware/general store testing them.

I wish I'd kept some of the stuff I built with tube, but I recognized the madness in my late 'teens and got rid of it all, cold turkey to transistors.

:silly:

[Gold Metal Flake]

36. Ahh, now there ya go runnin' to extremes.

You just gotta figger out what you want to do and stay on track. Transistors can get out of hand as well, especially if you are trying to drive Wilsons or something. Fortunately, I got a lot of stuff cheap, especially drivers, but some folks do take it to extremes that's for sure!

[RetroLounge]

29. Nothing beats the sound of vinyl

except maybe vinyl played on a Hi Fi with Tubes!

My 1959 Telefunken Console Stereo still sounds great!

:hi:

RL

[CarpeDiebold]

30. i have a lot of records but nothing to play them on :(

congrats on rediscovering analog!

[trackfan]

32. Records rule!

I'd like to associate myself with the pro-vinyl comments here.

I never really left vinyl, but about six years ago the needle on my last working turntable went kaput. Finally, a couple years ago, I was able to find a replacement utilizing "the global resources of the internet(s)".

I had always argued for vinyl before - mostly just for idealogical reasons, but since my vinyl "restoration", I have really noted and appreciated the difference in sound.

[Dukkha]

33. there is a medium as good as vinyl

SACDs
www.sonymusic.com/sacd/

Super Audio CDs are usually recorded at 24 bit 96 KHz and encoded using a DSD bit stream. This more accurately captures the sine waveforms than the 16 bit 44.1 KHz PCM encoding that Red Book audio CDs use. Unfortunately it wasn't successful in the mainstream and titles are few and far between. it's really great for classical and many SACDs are in 5.1 surround sound. Dark Side of the Moon is particularly great! Some Moody Blues SACDS are coming soon and it's rumored Wish You Were Here will be released.

I also love vinyl. the sound is great and you have some nice big artwork to look at.

[Ivan Sputnik]

34. How about the best of both worlds

Behold, the laser turntable:

http://www.audioturntable.com/

[trof]

35. Can you teach me how to play?

Is it a two-handed or four-handed game?

[Rabrrrrrr]

38. It's not a card game, you idjit. Jesus.

It's a game you play while swimming, like "Marco Polo" or "What's that long brown thing floating on the water and what does it taste like?"

Sheesh.

:eyes: