Reagan a saint? Which reason?

[Deja Q]

Poll question: Reagan a saint? Which reason?

Per a discussion at the DU gathering yesterday, a thought popped into my tired old brain:

[Hugin]

1. Oh great! I just got my breakfast down...

and here it comes again!

*urp*

[Droopy]

2. He killed the trucking industry with deregulation

It used to be that to be a truck driver usually meant that you made enough money to have a good life. Now that is increasingly rare. There are guys out there who are making the same or less money that they were 30 years ago. Trucking jobs now are 10% good, 50% medicore, 30% bad, and 10% terrible. I've run across drivers who are hauling them big rigs for less than 30k a year. That's just pathetic. I guess that's partly the drivers' fault, but any company with any ethics at all will not pay a driver that poorly.

I think why most conservatives consider Reagan such a good guy is because of his massive income tax cuts. Those conservatives are all about the money.

[billyskank]

3. Can't blame Reagan for number 2

That is definitely happening, but you can't pin the blame on one man and say: he is the problem. For example: if, say, you get rid of Bush, all your problems won't be fixed. In fact none of your problems will be fixed. People like Reagan and Bush are manifestations of your problems, and not the cause of them.

[Droopy]

4. Wise words

[Deja Q]

5. Very true.

:thumbsup:

[Hugin]

6. I had a similar thought the other day billy...

I was pondering whether or not social problems are a projection of
interpersonal personality flaws.

It's an intriguing theory.

It would explain much of the current state of things, especially if
you've read Kitty Kelley's book.

I agree that changing one person isn't suddenly going to pave the
streets with gold.

[billyskank]

7. I wasn't so much talking about psychology and projection

I was rather talking about societal problems, such as the dog-eat-dog screw-you-Jack-I've-mine attitude. These have undoubtedly been deliberately inculcated by the rich and powerful; this is obvious because they are the ones who benefit from it. It is these kinds of conditions that allow men such as Bush to get elected. Thus what I meant was, Bush isn't to blame for the problems, and merely getting rid of him and a Democrat into the White House won't in itself solve anything, although it is a necessary first step.

[Hugin]

8. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's why he got "elected"...

But, it's certainly why he has remained in office.

Aren't social problems an extension of collective psychology?

Someone, somewhere has seen the chart which shows that 90% of
everything is owned by 1% of the people. It's pretty clever that
they realized all they need do in order to remain in power is pander to
that 1%.

Me? I'm of the "rising water floats all boats" school of thought. But,
we've been thoroughly beat down by the above.

[billyskank]

9. Hmmm yes I suppose that's true

But the rising tide only lifts all boats if the rising tide is spread out across the whole marina. Currently the rich are determined that the fruits of growth should go all to them alone.

[Hugin]

10. It makes them feel richer...

to hold everyone else down. Especially, those who are marginally rich.
They find they can get more "service" if they hoard and drop crumbs.

It's really a selfish and downright sadistic POV in my book.

Those without dream on that one day if they work hard enough they'll
get to be one of those bastards too. Some aspirations, huh? Considering
there's no way that 1% is going to let them into the club no matter how
hard they work.

[Mutley]

14. What is the cause of the problem?

I've wondered what the opinion of a relatively objective observer like yourself would be.

I do agree that we can't pin it on one or two people, but what is it?

[billyskank]

17. Class warfare

Specifically, the rich waging war on the poor. We've got the same thing going on in my country. It is more effective still in your country though, because they have managed to get everybody to believe that America is a classless society.

This mood of individualism and selfishness is absolutely essential, because the most dangerous thing for the rich is worker solidarity. It is hard to get the working class to support one another, though, when they are all looking out for themselves.

That's my view on the situation. I guess I am basically a commie. :P

[Mutley]

18. Oh yes.

I've tried very hard recently to get a conservative I know to realize that the concept of looking out for the good of everyone is just as important, if not more so, than looking out for the individual is not as evil as he'd be led to believe. But it's like beating my head against a brick wall. :banghead:

Someone told me just this morning that anyone to the left of Attila the Hun is considered a commie by some people. :D

[radwriter0555]

11. For surviving the assassination attempt by bush senior of course.

And for rolling over and knowing when he was finished.

[Deja Q]

12. What??!!?1!??!/???? Now THAT is HUGH!!!!1!11!!!2

Why would Poppy be behind the attempt on Reagan! So early in his presidency too?

[radwriter0555]

13. Reagan was trying to take too much control. Poppy and cronies needed Ron

to be the gentle idiot, the stooge, the puppet out front. Reagan tried to actually work, and the assassination attempt was their way of letting him know who was in charge.

So reagan spent the rest of his term golfing. bush senior was the man in charge.

Iran contra ring any bells?

You don't think ronnie was actually involved in that debacle, do you?

[laheina]

15. I don't know if RR was involved in that or not.

I always thought that if he didn't know, it was just willful blindness for the sake of plausible deni ability. However, I think that it should be noted that the would be assassin is the son and brother of major Poppy supporters and campaign contributors. Interesting.

So, I've also suspected HW of having a hand in the assassination attempt.

[radwriter0555]

16. Ronnie wasn't involved in iran contra. bush senior was the player in that

game.

bush senior was the kkkarl rove behind ronnie.

Ronnie was actually a nice guy... it was poppy bush who was the fucker who ruined everything.