Remember when the US didn't suck *quite* as badly as it does today?

[WindRavenX]

I barely do.

Gen Y is going to be permanently scarred by the Bush Administration.

[idgiehkt]

1. wow. I bet you are right.

9/11 will be a formative wound on that generation, it is such an aberation to mine, growing up after Vietnam. After the nightmare of Reagan/Bush, I really enjoyed life during the Clinton years. This admin has damaged this country in ways that will be discernable for years to come, I am sure.

[WindRavenX]

3. Most of my memories are of Bush's years

I was 15 (!!) when he took office.

What an administration to have as your backdrop for the years when you change the most, imo...

I credit them for making me such a radical when I was in college--I have seen the living nightmare of everything wrong with America and politics.

I was BORN the year Super Mario for the ORIGINAL Nintendo (NES) was released in the US!

[datasuspect]

4. goodness gracious, you're just a baby~!

joking, i wish i was that young

[datasuspect]

2. i remember realistic toy guns

cheap rents

life that didn't revolve around corporate identity - a job was just a job

[Truthiness Inspector]

5. According to some here, the US has always sucked

so look on the bright side! No matter what, this country sucks!

People flock here everyday because it sucks so bad, worse than a rotten, fetid, lemon.

[WindRavenX]

6. If you want to have a serious debate about capitalism/racist origins of the US, I'd be happy to

By no means do I think the US has had 'fall from grace' as a result of the bush administration, but I don't think it's very hard to argue he certainly has brought out a lot of the worst parts and characteristics of this country and has greatly reduced our standards of living, our security, and our reputation abroad.

[Truthiness Inspector]

9. Ok

So this country is pretty much awful. Why single out the Bush years, this country sucks, from its very inception.

And fools rush in.

[datasuspect]

11. this country was founded on very lofty ideals

that applied only to white male landowners.

do the math. follow the money.

[Truthiness Inspector]

12. It's a shitty country. n/t

[datasuspect]

14. in many ways, yes it is

and now that they have essentially reversed the cornerstone ruling which launched the civil rights movement . . .

[Truthiness Inspector]

15. Terrible place. How will we ever get out? n/t

[ellisonz]

29. Roughly.

Conquest > Colonialism > "Manifest Destiny" > Consumption > Imperialism > Fascism

[WindRavenX]

17. Because we're not "awful" in the sense we're a horrible place to live

The difference is, the country's mythology--pulling one's self up by their own bootstraps, free economic and social mobility-- is just that: a myth. We don't acknowledge our inherent privilege with being a 1st world country, we don't acknowledge the racist, homophobic, misogynistic sides of our culture and especially not our history; the fact that Christopher Columbus is seen as a hero is deeply disturbing to me.

However, no one is suggesting that our country was "awful"-- our standards of living were often the best in the world, our academic system was also the top in the word, we prided on our investment to science and reason...The difference is we didn't acknowledge the things we needed (and still do) need to confront.

America has a lot of issues, always has, and rather than ignore the problem I embrace them and insist on confronting them and asking people to work to acknowledge their privileges in society.

That's the problem I have with this country--Bush's years made this about several magnitudes of ten worse and that's why it's so frustrating: we're digressing instead of progressing.

[Truthiness Inspector]

21. If it's a "myth" how did we get to where we are?

In far fewer years than most other nations have we have risen to the top. America is very young in comparison to other successful nations. "Inherent" privilege, my eye. Nothing "inherent" about it.

We also give massive amounts in aid to other countries, but yes, let's focus and tear our hair out over what we do wrong. Let's "embrace" those problems, instead of celebrating how much we do right! That is not to say that we shouldn't work on problems but to "embrace" them is another matter. That makes it sound delicious.

While I'm at it, what do you appreciate about this country?

[WindRavenX]

23. It's a myth because a lot of our success was built on a system of exploitation

And really, you're "you focus on the bad stuff too much" angle is one that is just so tired--of course I know there are good things about this country. I just have a mature relationship with how I view this country; that means taking the bad and the good instead of being one sided.

The line between focusing on the good and being overly nationalistic is very thin.

I appreciate this country because the constitution is the greatest man made document ever.

[Truthiness Inspector]

24. Our country was built on exploitation

and what is good about that?

[WindRavenX]

25. Um, I certainly hope it's a negative

You do realize this proves my point--I gave a criticism of the US, but I then did note a positive, yet you focused on my negative (but undeniable) point. Why? Am I supposed to ignore the not-so-great points in our history?

[Truthiness Inspector]

26. Thank your for your positive endorsement

of a country founded on exploitation.

I forgot to thank you for that in my previous post!

[WindRavenX]

27. Dude, I think you need to do some serious reading.

Pick up "A People's History" by Howard Zinn. It sounds like you've gone some serious delusion to combat.

I wouldn't be surprised if you thought slaves sung because they were happy :eyes:

[datasuspect]

28. they didn't?

[Oeditpus Rex]

7. Oh, yeah

I'm a Boomer.

We used to have shit like "freedom" and "justice" and "the American Way."

And big cars and cheap gas.

And no goddam designated hitter.

:patriot:

[WindRavenX]

8. yeah! Fuck the DH!

Fucking wankers.

And raise the mound while you're at it!

[Oeditpus Rex]

18. Yeah!

And fuck that old 15-inch bit! Raise that fucker to five or six feet!

:headbang:

[WindRavenX]

20. Listen to this:

Remember watching Ken Griffey Jr., before he was plagued by injuries every damn year?

I do :D

What a perfect, sweet swing...

[Oeditpus Rex]

22. When he hit 582 last week against the A's

one of the SF teevee sports dudes used it for a little dig at Barry Bonds.

Sayeth he: "The all-natural Ken Griffey Jr."

:D

[Heidi]

10. I don't think the US sucks. I think the leadership sucks.

But the people and the land are pretty much beautiful. :hi:

[datasuspect]

13. i want to agree

but when i go into many areas, all i see is retail greyfields and strip mall wastelands.

this could be anywhere.

although the piney woods in east texas is mighty beautiful.

[Heidi]

16. Those are everywhere, datasuspect, and not just in the US.

The US still has lots of unblighted places (and people). When I see what this administration has done to our country's collective soul, though, it's sometimes difficult for me to remember the unblighted places (and people). :(

[Connonym]

19. I remember when I still felt idealistic about our future

that ended in the late 90s. I hope that some day I get to feel that again.

[meegbear]

30. I do, it's called the 1990s ...

a Dem was President, grunge kicked the shit out of mindless pop in the music scene, the economy was great, Seinfeld was on TV .... *SIGH*

[WritingIsMyReligion]

31. Not really. I was nine in November/December of 2000.

My memories of the Clinton impeachment are sorta hazy--I didn't pay attention to politics then. I do remember being able to walk through airports without all this security, being able to meet people at the gates, etc. But that's kinda vague.

:crazy:

:scared:

[begin_within]

32. When I was a kid, there was a middle class...

Only the father had to have a full-time job. The mother may have done something, but it was either volunteer work or some specialty kind of job. The mother didn't need to work. The father made enough income to support the entire family, no matter what his job was. We had to budget, but we didn't lack for any necessities, and anything we really wanted we could eventually afford. Every family had 2 cars and a few had boats. About half of the families had swimming pools. This was not some upscale neighborhood, it was a plain, ordinary, suburban, middle-class neighborhood in Orange County, California, in the 1960s. There were poor people then, yes, but most people seemed to be doing fine. We were slightly worried about the cold war and the distant, conceptual threat of nuclear war with the USSR, but it didn't seem to affect our daily lives. Terrorism didn't seem like it was part of our daily lives. We would see race riots on the TV news and worry about it, but we never saw it in person. We were enthralled with the first moon landing, Disneyland, The Beatles, baseball, backyard barbeques, 4th of July fireworks, PTA meetings, the summer vacation, the Christmas visitors, and all that. Everything seemed to be "local," not global or international in scope.

[WinkyDink]

33. 1992-2000.